Opus [ex Shell credit card issued by Citibank] and Cabot

[bradfordlad]

Hi all,

 

a few years a go I took out a Shell credit card administered by Citibank.

 

I had a letter the other day to say the account (with a NIL balance) had been selected to be transferred to CCAM - and that CCAM wanted the account to be closed/ended/terminated (choose your definitiion here!)

 

Just wondering if this is legal?!!

 

Been reading a thread about Egg doing this a couple of years ago which was interesting.

 

Anyone else had this and is there a "CAG opinion"?

 

For the record, the feeling on the Egg forum was that they'd made a bit of a b*lls up and terminated illegally, thereby "writing off" the balances on those peoples cards.

 

If that is the case, I'm going to spend spend spend before it ends next month!!!!

 

Any thoughts?

 

BL

[dx100uk]

yep but you've not got a bal

so they cannot illegally terminate.

 

they cant send a default notice on £0 owed.

 

dx

[bradfordlad]

Ah, but I've now got a balance cos my car's just come out of the garage & I needed to pay a bill of......£900!!! The citicard is the only one I had that was ok to use so I now have a £900 balance on it.

 

SO - when that account terminates would they have closed it illegally?

 

[dx100uk]

if your card is working the a/c is not terminated.

 

??????

 

dx

[bradfordlad]

Sorry, I just realised I missed a vital point in the first post!

 

To make it clearer, I've scanned the letter. Ignore the littel credit balance - thats now £900 in debit!

 

 

Edited April 23, 2010 by bradfordlad
forgot to add letter

[dx100uk]

nothing wrong with that.

they are giving notice that you cannot spend more after 12/05/2010.

and the agreement continues on a repayment basis until the bal is cleared, then the agreement is closed.

 

dx

[bradfordlad]

Thats what I suspected - thanks for your help!

 

[dx100uk]

zo'k

 

dx

[bradfordlad]

Hi all,

 

not looking forward to this one, but due to unforseen circumstances - Citi will be getting £1 a month for a good while.

 

The card was actually taken out as a Shell credit card a couple of years ago, so it was (if I remember rightly) an online application.

 

I get the feeling they will come in heavy from what I've been reading.

 

Anyone have any advice for me?

 

Cheers

 

BL:cry:

[miss muppet]

Much outstanding on it?

[silverfox1961]

My advice, don't take any sh*t from them.

Citi are one of the banks that don't do a lot to help. I would go as far as to say they are the worst

[bradfordlad]

Much outstanding on it?

 

Just under £5k. Does that make a difference?

 

I think what I'm most bothered about is that the CCA is unlikely to be duff as its quite recent, and if they get the DN right (which the odds are they will) then they've got me banged to rights

 

My other creditors have all messed up 1 way or another so feel happy to fight those, but its just my luck that the worst of them all is likely to have a valid argument!

 

Cheers

 

BL

[Enron]

My advice, don't take any sh*t from them.

Citi are one of the banks that don't do a lot to help. I would go as far as to say they are the worst

 

Yes, Citi do have a special place in many peoples affections.

 

But after dealing with them, and a number of others it can put things into perspective. After all at the end of the day, it's only money.

 

Previously money had value, but the link with a tangible asset such as gold has been long severed. In fact our currency in Pounds Sterling is backed by nothing accept securities (paper backing paper), a central bank can therefore create money out of thin air, and more recently i've come across documents that commercial banks can likewise create money without partificipation of a central bank (got Deutsche Bank documents).

 

So whilst it serves a purpose, and can be nice to have...... don't get mega stressed about your situation.

 

Banks and debt collectors will deploy all manner of intimidation and harassment to get funds out of you, but once you know your stuff they tend to leave you alone. From the point of view of phonecalls, if you get inundated, the Protection From Harassment Act can come into play, and Trading Standards are normally willing to help. Companies also don't like complaints going into the Office Of Fair Trading -- let the credit know if you send any in regarding harassment.

 

If you are unable to make your repayments the company should be willing to accept your token payment of £1. Institutions are meant to be understanding of those in financial trouble, albeit don't expect this from Citi. I would suggest that it might be worth contacting someone such as the "Consumer Credit Councelling Service" who would help and act as an Intermediary.

 

From the point of view of Citi, I would request the CCA for your own purposes, though if they have a record of an online application your agreement by a "x" would probably be adequate proof that you entered into an arrangement with them.

 

Maybe not exactly what you wanted to hear, but hopefully a step in the right direction.

 

The main thing is if they apply pressure, bat it off, and if you need any help post here or PM us.

[bradfordlad]

Thanks for your input Enron

 

I'm fortunate (if thats the right word!) to be much further down this path with some other creditors, so hopefully there'll be no surprises.

 

Citi don't have my phone number (recently changed it) so not concerned about phone calls.

 

I think what I am MOST concerned about is the..charges, interest, default notice, solicitors letters, Court claim paperwork.

 

Fortunately, none of my other debts have got as far as this (at least with a VALID claim!), BUT - if it did get to court, and everything was valid in respect of paperwork etc, would I still ADMIT the claim, or would I defend it (and if so on what basis?)

 

Our biggest fear is CCJ...Charging Order...Order for Sale. ANYTHING else we can cope with because as you say, it's only money (real or otherwise) - but losing the family home - thats a definite no-no.

 

I guess I'm like everyone else on that front - and for some reason, none of my other credits scare me as much as citi.

 

[citizenB]

Ouch, I think you are probably correct in that the paperwork is very likely correct. But you could still request a copy anyway.

 

Enron's summary of Citi is mild to a lot of other comments I have read:D

 

Unless there is a serioius issue with the paperwork then I cant see how you would defend should it come to that.

 

I guess irresponsible lending, if they were aware of your financial situation and still gave you credit. But I would imagine all you would get out that is possibly a DJ that would allow you to pay off the debt at your own speed.

 

Do a search for

Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (the 1999 Regulations)

See if there is anything in there that would be useful

[bradfordlad]

Hi everyone,

 

received a letter from Crapbot - the first I've heard for about 5 months!

 

By way of history - I had a Shell credit card issued by Citibank. Apparently, citi sold their debts to Opus, a division of Bank of Scotland. Can't remember when the ciiti card started, but I believe it was an online application, altough I could be wrong.

 

We hit hard times about 18 months ago, and had to stop payments to all our creditors - most of which have either disappeared or we are paying small payments to them.

 

I haven't done anything with this account since I first contacted them (citi) - I advised of the situation, asked them to accept token payments. They refused, I wrote back saying "well I can't afford any more so the offer is still on the table" although I didn't actually start sending them any money.

 

I'm going to refresh my memory by going through the file this weekend.....

 

The letter from Crapbot is:

 

Dear Mr xxxxxxxxxx

 

Litigation Recovery Notification

We previously advised you that if you didn't repay your outstanding debt to Crapbot, we would take further action. Therefore please take this letter as notice that we will forward your account to our litigation department, Morgan Solicitors, who will contact you within the next 7 days to collect the outstanding amount.

 

If you wish to stop this action from occurring, please contact us on 0845 0700 769 as soon as possible to set up a sustainable repayment arrangement and ensure your account is cleared, whilst taking into account your personal circumstances.

 

Lots of love,

 

Lindsay Thompson

Senior Recoveries Manager

xxxx

 

 

Is this the usual threatogram, or do they mean business?

 

I don't think I've ever requested a CCA from them, so that is going to be my first letter and of course I'll keep this thread up to date.

 

Look forward to advice and also to see if anyone else has had any similar dealings

[bradfordlad]

Well, not a lot to tell really!

 

It appears that Crapbot may have bought this debt from Opus - if that's the case, shouldn't there have been some sort of correspondence advising me of the sale?

 

Can anyone point me in the direction of some reading regarding Assignments? I've done all variety of searches but can't find anything that spells out a) what the legal requirements on OC's & DCA's when debts are being transferred/bought, and b) what the legal implications are if such transfers/sales are not done correctly.

 

Cheers

 

BL

Edited April 16, 2012 by bradfordlad

[asokn]

See section 136 of the Law of Property Act 1925 and Bateman v Hunt for an introduction.

[bradfordlad]

Thanks for the links asokn, they are some seriously wordy subjects!

 

I'm interested in the requirements of the OC and the DCA in particular. From what I can see;

 

1 I must be informed by the OC that the debt is going to be / has been sold (not sure if it matters when)

 

2 The Notice of Assignment must be sent by registered post/special delivery if it is to comply with the Law of Property Act 1925

 

3. If points 1 & 2 have not been done, then they haven't got a leg to stand on?

 

 

When it comes down to it, I'm just not sure whether this latest letter from Crapbot is something to worry about - the last letter I had from them was dated early June 2011, so I'm clearly not high on their list of priorities!!!

 

Cheers

[asokn]

I think that Bateman v Hunt deals with your point 1; it doesn't matter if you are told by the OC or the new creditor. The *assignment* must be under the hand of the OC but the *notice* can basically come from anyone.

 

As for your point 2, you may be assisted by Kinch v Bullard.

[bradfordlad]

Had a letter from the nice people at Morgan solicitors this morning.

 

Excuse the shadow of my hand taking the photo!

 

SO - is this a standard letter? I'm concerned about the references to Practice Directions, Pre-Action Protocols and CPR. Having said that, I was reassured by this short thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?311724-Practice-direction-to-the-pre-action-protocols which summed up my suspicions.

 

 

Also, I'm not sure where I stand as to the points a-f on page 1. Opus took over the debt from Citi, so I'm assuming they bought the rights and obligations too.

 

Who should I send my CCA request to? Morgans, Crapbot, Opus or Citi???!!! Could do with a bit of clarification regarding the CCA anyway, as this was a relatively recent card (2007ish and I believe it may have been an online application) so do they still have to supply a CCA or would I be better with a SAR?

 

Then there's the question about the assignment, or lack of it. I'm still non the wiser as to when or how it should have been delivered (despite doing my best to follow the cases posted earlier).

 

Thanks as always for any guidance

 

BL

 

FRONT

 

BACK

[lowdown]

Why are Cabot & Morgan solicitors using the same address and land line phone number ? I thought they were based in Rugby.

 

Some stuff here.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?179886-Morgan-Solicitors-Cabot-s-new-in-house-litigation-department.

Edited April 24, 2012 by lowdown

[vint1954]

Your CCA request should be sent to the current owner of the debt.

 

SAR request, will need to be sent to the original holder of the debt.

 

I would send the standard template letter to the current owner of the debt, copy in Morgans, then wait to see what arives.

 

Dont forget to make clear that the fee for the CCA must not be used for any other purpose.

 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original lender, just after you got into dificulty.

 

Vint

[bradfordlad]

Cheers vint,

 

I did receive a DN, and it looked absolutely fine - I'll dig it out & post a copy here for the record....

 

Can I ask, what exactly is the situation with regard to CCA's when the account was opened online after the change in the Consumer Credit Act? Obviously they won't have one with my signature on, so what will I be looking for when one is produced, and what if any is the situation if they don't/can't produce one?

 

Hope that makes sense?!

 

Also, is it worth making a fuss about the fact that I've never been made aware of any assignment?

 

Cheers

 

BL

Edited April 25, 2012 by bradfordlad

[vint1954]

Hi bradfordlad,

 

Just remember to remove your details when you post the DN, but the dates are critical.

 

If the account was opened online recently, then a signature is not required, just a tick box. They will just need to produce the online agreement. It is however, the original agreement that you are looking for.

 

You should have been informed about the assignment, so yes you should ask for the notice. They will be able to rectify this though.

 

Vint