Unwittingly attempting to re-use an in-date and un-stamped ticket at Marylebone.

[Chiltern Traveller]

Hello, your help would be much appreciated.

 

I recently travelled on a Chiltern Railways train out of Marylebone and was threatened with prosecution for attempting to re-use a ticket i later realised had already been used. This was a genuine inadvertent attempt as my wallet is always rammed full of unexpired tickets as i don't always use return legs. However, in this case, clearly according to their technology i had already used it.

 

Here's what happened...

 

After being thwarted at the barrier, I asked one of the train employees nearby why it didn't work (at this stage i was genuinely confused as to why the barrier had not opened when the ticket was in-date), he scanned the ticket and told me that it had already been used.

 

After some general confusion and bewilderment by me, he then requested my details (name, address and d.o.b.) which i wrote on a scrap bit of paper he handed me. At this point, i thought he was going to let me through and send me proof/details of the journey via post and, if it were shown that i had used the ticket, a bill/fare notice etc. This was not the case, however, as he then explained that my details were to be passed to their legal team to decide on whether i should be prosecuted.

 

I was now in shock, although remained calm and was never rude, aggressive or obtuse. He was not wearing a name badge and so i asked what his name was. He initially said that i didn't need his name as it was nothing to do with him: i was going to be dealing with the legal/prosecution team, he said. But after a repeated request he wrote his name on a scrap of paper. (FYI - I was not issued with a penalty notice or summons and was given no official warning/caution or confirmation receipt/notice etc.)

 

By this stage, i had missed the train i had planned to get and so with nothing more to say i walked off to the main waiting area of the station and waited for the next train. When the next train arrived i used another of the unstamped in-date tickets in my wallet and, fortunately, the barriers opened...! N.B. Chiltern railways seemingly check and stamp/mark tickets about 99% of the time, and so when i pulled out an unstamped ticket from my wallet i naturally assumed it hadn't been used.

 

What can i expect to happen? Will i get some sort of penalty fare (although i'm not sure how this would work because Chiltern Railways hasn't lost out i.e. i wasn't actually aboard the train) or will they prosecute? I've read stories that these companies take a 'zero tolerance' approach. Please, please advise??

 

This was a genuine mistake. I totally unknowingly and unwittingly attempted to use the ticket a second time. I am not a "fare dodger" and feel that this could be proved by looking at my recent travel, backed up by ticket purchases. I have no previous convictions and have never received a penalty fare notice before.

 

Thank you very much in advance for your help.

 

Best regards,

 

Chiltern Traveller!

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

If you've read around the forum, you'll know that we have some knowledgeable transport industry guys here [not myself though]. I'm sure they'll be along to advise you when they can, please bear with us until they can get here.

 

My best, HB

[andydd]

Ive done this a few times (pull an old ticket out of my wallet) but luckily Ive realised what has happened and then used the correct ticket.

 

Andy

[Chiltern Traveller]

Thanks HB. Hopefully i'll receive some replies soon.

 

I have been reading other posts in this forum and have become quite scared. A criminal record would be absolutely catastrophic for me and would have seismic implications for my career. All this is utterly disastrous and i am deeply worried.

 

When people say they are "sick with worry", i now know what the mean.

 

Thanks once again.

CT.

[MrGates]

I have seen many cases like this before where because they havnt been stamped or marked they have tried it again and or even passeed it to friends and they have suffered the consequences. It remains upto the traveller to present a valid ticket when asked to do and unfortunately yours wasnt, you have been reported for a travel irregularity which that memeber of staff did as they probably was not PACE trained hence why you was not cautioned/questioned etc. Im gathering from your post after your details were taken he told you to carry on and no zero fare ticket was issued to you? Your best sitting tight and waiting for chiltern to write to you regarding the issue and only then will we know what they allege. In future my advice is to tear your tickets or dispose of to ensure this doesnt happen again.

[Chiltern Traveller]

Thanks MrGates. No zero fare ticket was issued and i didn't travel on the train i had intended to travel on, i.e. i didn't get past the barrier and onto the train. Once he'd explained and told me the date i had i used the ticket i checked my diary and accepted that i did travel on that date and must have used the ticket. Having missed my planned train I got a later one - obviously this time with a valid unused ticket. I think i shall sit tight and await my fate. Sounds pathetic but it's all i can think about at the moment. I just hope i can block it out over xmas.

 

Thanks once again.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Chiltern Traveller

[Old-CodJA]

Thanks MrGates. No zero fare ticket was issued and i didn't travel on the train i had intended to travel on, i.e. i didn't get past the barrier and onto the train. Once he'd explained and told me the date i had i used the ticket i checked my diary and accepted that i did travel on that date and must have used the ticket. Having missed my planned train I got a later one - obviously this time with a valid unused ticket. I think i shall sit tight and await my fate. Sounds pathetic but it's all i can think about at the moment. I just hope i can block it out over xmas. Thanks once again.

 

 

Yes, you will need to await a letter from Chiltern or their agents (Chiltern do use another company to process such matters)

 

The key thing to remember here is what the wording of Section 5 of The Regulation of Railways Act (1889) actually says. the relevant extract being ;

 

"If any person travels, or attempts to tavel....."

 

This means that a prosecution may be justified, as it seems that you attempted to use the previously used ticket to travel. I.T developments over recent years make it possible to determine a whole host of things about a ticket and where it has been, which may not be obvious to the casual examination

 

There are many questions that ought to be asked of the traveller by revenue staff in this situation, but I make one suggestion that will avoid you ever having to face that situation again. All rail tickets remain the property of the rail companies at all times and if you use a ticket for travel and it isn't stamped, either hand it in , or throw it in the bin at the end of your journey, or just put an 'X' across it with a pen. That removes the likelihood of re-use either by temptation or by error.

 

Mr Gates is correct in that it seems you were not questioned by a P.A.C.E trained inspector, but that does not prevent a prosecution

 

To be honest, if your post is a fully accurate account of what happened, I think you might be OK, but you will know if you receive any letter from them. If so, let us know what happens.

Edited December 10, 2011 by Old-CodJA