What now...

[goboy]

My aunt has been off work for 3 months due to her employer not making adjustments for her. Her last fit note said that she may be able to retune to work on certain conditions. Employer has refused to comply with recommendations. Her fit note has run out and her GP said that she does not need another one until her employer complies with recommendations. She has written to employer asking them if the adjustments are place for her to retune to work but she has not hear anything back from them. Should she wait now until she hears from employer confirming that the adjustments are in place for return to work.

[papasmurf1cx]

Hi Welcome to the site.

 

You will need to give us more information please.

 

What is your aunt off sick with? How long has she had the condition? Does it affect her activities of daily living, if so what are they?

 

How long has been employed by this company and in what role? What are the adjustments the doctor has recommended and what does your aunt think is reasonable for her to return to her job?

 

Does she have a legal protection Policy for industrial disputes (look in home contents policy) or is she a member of a union.

 

Finally is the employer a private firm or a public authority and if private how large is the company?

[honeybee13]

Hello goboy and papa.

 

I'm a bit worried about the advice about not needing a doctor's note because I haven't come across this before. GPs don't always understand the rules, although I don't claim to be an expert either.

 

A few more thoughts and questions though, I'm afraid. Has your aunt spoken with ACAS?

 

Have the company refused in writing to make the adjustments?

 

And if she hasn't heard in writing, does she feel able to ring them? I'm just concerned that if she stays quiet or goes wrong with the paperwork, she could end up in the wrong.

 

I hope you'll have some more opinions.

 

My best, HB

Edited December 1, 2011 by honeybee13
clarity.

[papasmurf1cx]

I think this has changed. I know eventually the GP used to sign a form and let the DWP know you are a long term sick person. It is designed to stop wasting GP's time. But to be honest I don't know the rules merely going on experience.

[goboy]

Hi my aunt has a disability that is covered under the equality act 2010 she been with her company for 6 years. She works in retails whcih involved a lot of standing. She needs the adjustments whcih are not big compare the size of her company,

 

I have looked up the and it says that no more fits notes are needed when GP make these recommendations ie to see her company OH but employer has done this. My aunt says they are pushing her to leave her job.

[honeybee13]

Hi again. I would speak to the EHRC and ACAS. They normally give good advice.

 

HB

[Marieleeza]

Hi my aunt has a disability that is covered under the equality act 2010 she been with her company for 6 years. She works in retails whcih involved a lot of standing. She needs the adjustments whcih are not big compare the size of her company,

 

I have looked up the and it says that no more fits notes are needed when GP make these recommendations ie to see her company OH but employer has done this. My aunt says they are pushing her to leave her job.

I have come across this situation before.

 

The employer, if they do not wish to make the adjustments, treat the fit note as a sick note. There is a box for an end date on the fit note but doctors seem divided on whether or not to fill it in.

 

What the information on You Gov means is that, if your employer does not make adjustments for you, you do not need to go back and get another fit note which says you are unfit to work, the one you provided saying "may be fit with adjustments" is good enough.

 

I think your relative should cover herself with another fit note with an end date, say 2 months away. There is no need to detail all the adjustments again, I think the doctor can just say "as previously".

[goboy]

Thanks for advice, she has written to employer many times regarding adjustments with no reply from them. She contacted EHRC today and they said that she has done everything correct but could not advise her what to do next.

 

On her note from GP it said that she may be fit for work taking into the following advice for adjustments that was 4 weeks ago, nothing from employer.

 

She has submitted ET1 today and will wait to see if that bring results from her employer.

[suziebear67]

My gp put on going on the end date of my fit note and siad it covered me till i returned to full time work if that is any help.

[Marieleeza]

My gp put on going on the end date of my fit note and siad it covered me till i returned to full time work if that is any help.

I know what you mean but the employer, if using it as a sicknote, could ask you to be more specifiic. I ended up providing 3 fit notes under similar circumstances. I think it might be an idea to get one with an end date a couple of months away to cover relative's back.

 

Another fit note is easy to get and puts more pressure on the employer. I doubt that it is worth getting into a big debate with employer over it. HR are often so ignorant that it would just be more annoyance for your aunt.

[goboy]

I know what you mean but the employer, if using it as a sicknote, could ask you to be more specifiic. I ended up providing 3 fit notes under similar circumstances. I think it might be an idea to get one with an end date a couple of months away to cover relative's back.

 

Another fit note is easy to get and puts more pressure on the employer. I doubt that it is worth getting into a big debate with employer over it. HR are often so ignorant that it would just be more annoyance for your aunt.

 

Spoken to my aunt and she has decided to get another sick note from GP tomorrow, she asked what would happened if her employer dismissed her. From speaking to her, she would not mind if this happened as she has had enough of them now, I am not sure about legal implication if this happened tho, but as they employer will not make adjustments for her this would go against them. She put in ET1 today and she is not sure how this will sit with employer.

Edited December 1, 2011 by goboy

[Marieleeza]

Spoken to my aunt and she has decided to get another sick note from GP tomorrow, she asked what would happened if her employer sack her. I am not sure but as they employer will not make adjustments for her this would go against them. She put in ET1 today and she is not sure how this will sit with employer.

 

I think that is a good move. The employer is obliged to make reasonable adjustments, if she has a recognised disability and they are obliged to full pay, if she is kept out of the workplace by their failure to make adjustments and loses pay as a result. This right to full sick pay in these circumstances was established by the case of Mrs Meikle. See link below

 

http://www.pcs.org.uk/en/equality/disability_equality_toolkit/understanding_reasonable_adjustments.cfm

 

The ET1 had to be done as there are time limits. It can always be withdrawn if her return to work is progressed.

 

I cannot remember if she has written a grievance? If not she should write one specifically about the employer's failure to let her return to work and any income she may have lost as a result.

 

Should she get the sack ( which would be foolish for her employer but who knows) she can make a further ET claim for unfair dismissal and claim for all the pay lost between sacking and ET hearing (and maybe even before if she was not on full pay) and for injury to feelings and loss of future earnings, company pension etc.

 

The employer would be mad to sack a disabled worker who has offered to return. They would have to show that she was totally incapable of work or that they had done all they could in the way of making adjustments before they gave her the shove.

[goboy]

Thanks Marie, she will go and see her GP tomorrow and get a further sick note. After that I will adviser her to write a grievance to her employer next week, would that be OK to send it to them after the ET1has been submitted. I expect her employer will not get wind of the ET1 until late next week. This has made her very depressed and now she wants to get it over and done with.

 

She unsure how her employer will treat her if she retuns to work I expect she will get a lot of bullying from them becasue of the ET. I get the feeling that she does not care now because of the appalling way her employer has treated her.

[Marieleeza]

Thanks Marie, she will go and see her GP tomorrow and get a further sick note. After that I will adviser her to write a grievance to her employer next week, would that be OK to send it to them after the ET1has been submitted. I expect her employer will not get wind of the ET1 until late next week. This has made her very depressed and now she wants to get it over and done with.

 

She unsure how her employer will treat her if she retuns to work I expect she will get a lot of bullying from them becasue of the ET. I get the feeling that she does not care now because of the appalling way her employer has treated her.

 

Her letters asking for the return sort of count as a grievance too. In this letter she could use the word grievance and mention that she has written before to try to get her return to work sorted out. There is an example of a very decent grievance letter on page 42 of the link below. It is about reasonable adjustments so your aunt can just edit it to suit her case.

 

http://equalityhumanrights.com/uploaded_files/dda_workers_guide_reasonable_adjustments.doc

[goboy]

Thanks for link Marie, I will though it tomorrow with her.

[goboy]

Update, auntie got a call from manger on Tuesday and her manager was irritated on the phone my aunt siad she could tell that she was on a speakers as it echo a lot from her end. The manager must have got the ET1 as she was irritated and want my aunt to attend a meeting at the end of the week. My auntie is signed off sick until the January and she has to go back to see her GP after the sick note expires. My auntie sent email to manager that day and pointed out that she failed to reply to her many correspondences and she referred to her long letter to her as letter/grievance said also asked her manager is she has received her correspondence and to confirm in writing prior to a meeting with her that she receive them and also confirm that you will be addressing the serious issues regarding the Equality Act 2010 in her reply.

 

Auntie sent manager another email today asking manager for a reply and also said that as she is currently on sick leave she requested for the proposed meeting to have a friend with her at the meeting to take note for her and also what they will be discussing at proposed meeting. After auntie sent that email she got a letter in the post telling my auntie that the meeting will be taking place tomorrow. Auntie has no time to arrange for some one to go with her and she is not prepared for it either. What should she do, will they sack her for not been able to attend this meeting with no notice for her to prepare.

[Marieleeza]

Update, auntie got a call from manger on Tuesday and her manager was irritated on the phone my aunt siad she could tell that she was on a speakers as it echo a lot from her end. The manager must have got the ET1 as she was irritated and want my aunt to attend a meeting at the end of the week. My auntie is signed off sick until the January and she has to go back to see her GP after the sick note expires. My auntie sent email to manager that day and pointed out that she failed to reply to her many correspondences and she referred to her long letter to her as letter/grievance said also asked her manager is she has received her correspondence and to confirm in writing prior to a meeting with her that she receive them and also confirm that you will be addressing the serious issues regarding the Equality Act 2010 in her reply.

 

Auntie sent manager another email today asking manager for a reply and also said that as she is currently on sick leave she requested for the proposed meeting to have a friend with her at the meeting to take note for her and also what they will be discussing at proposed meeting. After auntie sent that email she got a letter in the post telling my auntie that the meeting will be taking place tomorrow. Auntie has no time to arrange for some one to go with her and she is not prepared for it either. What should she do, will they sack her for not been able to attend this meeting with no notice for her to prepare.

 

The amount of notice given for the meeting in insufficient. I would reply by email ASAP and send the message to more than one recipient and ask them to confirm receipt.

 

I would say that I welcome the opportunity to discuss these matters but that more time is needed to arrange representation/companion and to seek advice from trade union. Suggest a few dates that would suit you.

 

As I said before they could sack your aunt but it would be foolish as she is disabled. The grievance meeting can be resheduled once, I do not believe that the employer is obliged to offer a third date, if a second attempt at a meeting fails.

 

 

Good luck

[goboy]

She phone them and she said that there was a threat saying if she did not true up for meeting they would make decision in her absence. She follow up the conversation with an email confirming that she would was in the process of looking for someone to go with her to the meeting. During the conversation she got the feeling that they just want her to leave her job.

 

Also she has just a letter from Tribunal saying that her claim has been accepted does that mean that her company would get notification at the same time. If so that should make them very happy, think not....

[Marieleeza]

She phone them and she said that there was a threat saying if she did not true up for meeting they would make decision in her absence. She follow up the conversation with an email confirming that she would was in the process of looking for someone to go with her to the meeting. During the conversation she got the feeling that they just want her to leave her job.

 

Also she has just a letter from Tribunal saying that her claim has been accepted does that mean that her company would get notification at the same time. If so that should make them very happy, think not....

Yes the employer would get notification at the same time. They have 28 days from the date on the claim accepted letter to respond.

 

Your aunt has been given insufficient notice and as a consequence denied a companion. She has the right to have someone with her at a grievance or disciplinary meeting.

 

Best practice demands that another date for the meeting be set to give your aunt time to prepare and arrange for accompaniment. If a third attempt at a meeting fails the employer can then decide in her absence. The employer does not have to follow best practice but a Tribunal is likely to find in your favour, if another meeting date is not offered.

 

I would check with ACAS and then e-mail and ask for another date. Should the employer give your aunt the sack, I think she would have to file an additional ET claim for disability discrimination (failure to make reasonable adjustments) and unfair dismissal.

 

It would be a good idea to get some legal help from the legal aid helpline, CAB or from the Disability Law Service ( see the link below)

 

http://www.dls.org.uk/Advice/Index.html

Edited December 10, 2011 by Marieleeza

[Greentea]

Wrong thread

[goboy]

My auntie has to attend a meeting next Monday with employer, her employer has stopped her salary and she got no pay this month not even SSP payments paid into her account. She wrote to them about her salary stoppage but they did not respond to her about it.

Yesterday she got a response back from employer regarding ET1 claim and now has to go through that and cover the point that they have raised in it. She is very upset about getting no pay from her employer . Can she claim this as discrimination as well.

Edited January 13, 2012 by goboy

[becky2585]

She could add a claim for victimisation, as she has suffered a detriment/less favourable treatment as a result of asserting her right not to be discriminated against.

[goboy]

She could add a claim for victimisation, as she has suffered a detriment/less favourable treatment as a result of asserting her right not to be discriminated against.

 

Thanks Becky, what would she have to do to make a claim for victimisation. The company she works for are some outfit.....

[goboy]

Bump...how can she add victimisation to her claim please

[becky2585]

Hi, sorry I missed your post.

 

What we would ordinarily do is submit another ET1 for the victimisation claim only with a covering letter asking the claim to be joined with the other claim and heard together. There may be another way of doing this, but that's how I personally would do it.