Feel like I am picked on at work - I have a case need advice? now on final warning - help

[Ruscik12]

Hi Guys and Ladies my name is Luka. Just joined in seeking advice.

 

I will try to make long story short and will avoid company details as that might get picked up by someone. However it is a Hotel. Do apologise if it still is a bit long but it needs to be given with some details at least.

 

Been working for said company for over 2 years now. Almost immediately I have picked up that they have internal issues. There was lots of arguing amongst staff but most importantly there are two camps people with right face and rest so to speak. The first group can get away with murder but it is hard to prove as couple of major managers are in that group.

I never had any problems at work, all places I worked I have received some sort of commendation for job I was doing from customers or my own employer. I never had any disciplinary on me or even been investigated.

 

To make clear how all works in said place a little outline of disciplinary procedure.

 

1st step was always investigation meeting where you were presented with employers evidence to accusations and you could say something to your defence or provide hard evidence. If they were happy that would be it if not case would progress to official disciplinary.

2nd step is official disciplinary very similar to 1st step but enriched by information from previous meeting.

3rd step decision

4th step if executed appeal

 

1st step is not mentioned in employee handbook but that is how it always happened till now.

 

Within 4 months I ended up on first "investigation meeting" that lead to nothing. Within a year there was 2 more that lead to nothing. Each time they were minor issues that if happened in any other work would lead to 1 to 1 with manager to discuss why it is happening and a plan how to fix it. Not in here, here you provided enough evidence (or were liked) case gone if not case continues. In either case there was no 1 to 1 with manager or plan how to fix it just a quick note to fallow the procedure in future.

Further more every investigation meeting took about 3 months from incident(s) happening and you even knowing you are investigated so proof was either gone (CCTV holds recordings for month), hard to get and details hard to remember. However employer did their investigation ASAP and then were sitting on findings.

Did not make much of it at the time just assumed that is how they work.

 

About a year ago it all changed, I have fallen out with some managers because as it turned out "we welcome new ideas", "we welcome new suggestions" means "shut up and work". This place has people working there for 10 years or more and most of the rules were set then, some being wrong or illegal now but that does not matter.

 

So my first disciplinary was about apparent drinking on duty. As living in staff drinking in staff accommodation is for them like drinking at work. Fair point there did not notice that in contract.

Procedure for that disciplinary was fine except 3 month wait. 1st step was done. 2nd step disciplinary I got a letter with note of possible outcome (maximum punishment for that offence) and all proof employer had to support their case. On the meeting questions were clearly directed so that if I reply just to questions I admit 100%. I also managed to find out that questions for other people that were part of it were 100% directed at asking if I was at fault. Questions like: "Did Luka call you to come and drink?" "Did Luka text you to go out drinking to the bar next door?" and so on.

At each meeting there was a note keeper present but in case of this disciplinary and one after that (lead by the same manager) note keeper was not taking notes it was the manager?!

Penalty given a verbal warning was valid from date investigation finished not incident date so almost 4 months later.

At time of investigation above I have started grievance against manager leading it saying in short he was picking on me. As evidence I have used another incident that apparently I was at fault where I received a letter of concern after he investigated the incident. When I asked if you investigated why have you not spoken to me, where are investigation notes and where is the official complaint he said he does not have it. So I said he has punished me without any investigation whatsoever as he has no proof he investigated and he never spoke to me. His reply was he does not have to have proof however that was in conversation not on paper. Until the day I started official grievance only I got the letter of concern however on day I failed grievance 3 other members of staff got one, not before.

When I had my hearing in regards of grievance I started against him I repeated all of that, pointed shortfalls in investigation and disciplinary procedures. However I was denied positive outcome saying he has fallowed procedure. Good thing was that I got on paper employer admitting he had no investigation notes of any kind relating to that case or even written complaint it was my word against his only.

 

 

3 months in to first warning I had another disciplinary. Procedure was fallowed correctly up until the point where the same manager as before was running the investigation and again he was taking notes rather then independent note taker.

Points on there:

 

1. Issues with deliveries. Hotels security policy states we need to have 3 people at main entrance at all times. At the time until 6:30 there is only 3 of us after that till 8am 4. However wakeup calls have to be done by knocking at room doors, taxis, check-outs, answering telephones and covering porter desk if another porter goes up for wakeup call. Delivery comes between 6am and 8am and we have to go with them as side doors can not be left unattended. During my 1st year of employment never a trouble with that, as soon as they changed delivery company problems started 2 days later. They were coming in worst possible time so they were told to wait until we are free as when I tried to get another department to guard the door they complained not their job. Delivery company complained.

Got in trouble on both accounts asking other department to cover the door and telling delivery company to wait. Other manager on regular basis gets said other department to cover the door.

When I asked for CCTV to show them we were busy nothing was secured and they can not reply as to why.

 

2. Staff smoking in front of building, no details who those staff members were or even if they were in uniform. In other words no way to say if they were our staff and if they were at work or just finish cigi before coming in, no where in policy we are to stop off duty and strangers smoking on public sidewalk.

 

3. Not allowed refunds. Now get this no date of when I done unauthorised refund, no name of guest or his room number yet it is still on disciplinary!!

 

4. Reporting of IT issues and logging that. Well granted I never logged issues fixed in 5 min 99.9999% but I logged more then other manager. Still only me there.

 

5. Communication with said other manager. 4 e-mails sent in total as reply all at first. Him - me - Him - me. He sends procedure that is 60% impossible to do, I reply politely pointing out that some points need changing and suggestion to what. He replies threatening do it like I said or I will put you on disciplinary (he has no authority to say or do that) I reply we both manage this team and we both should have input but as it stands now it is dictatorship. No swear words used at all.

During investigation they try very hard to skip 1st 3 e-mails and just focus on last one taking sentences out of context. When I point it out they do not listen at all.

 

6. Use of work PC's for internet. Apparently I am the only one doing it. When I point out it is not the case, I am doing what I was told by my line manager and senior manager they ignore it. I provide proof to that manager leading investigation does not even want to look at it as it is against his people. He makes a note that it will be investigated by X manager completely ignoring that X manager is the one I have proof against showing X using internet at work and allowing others to do so.

 

7. One more which is paperwork misunderstanding. Not reporting correctly as I did not fill in incident report. My point of view on incident is when something happens. If I prevented something happening by taking some action I never filled in incident report as there was no incident. I did however put a note of it in DM book and e-mail.

 

Despite all of that I loose the disciplinary and in summary why it is clear he has taken the decision based on previous disciplinary I had with him. Conveniently he skips internet usage point saying that will now not be investigated further.

 

I appeal against this one. Point out all the procedural short falls, point out lack of proof and yet again say it is clear signs of bullying as half of the points were put through despite not having any evidence to support that. I again point out time it has taken for the disciplinary to happen, I also point out it has taken over a month to make a decision. I point out many rules in employee handbook including the one where if you get second verbal warning it becomes a written one valid for 12 months from date issued. I also point out that decision magically came about a week before my 1st verbal expires which clearly shows it was delayed to extend my disciplinary to possible maximum. There was much more there on said appeal. Oddly I won it but not reason as to why given by employer.

 

Two weeks later I find out manager I had grievance against was under investigation for procedural shortfalls for some time and he quit before his disciplinary. Many points on his disciplinary where points I made.

Him gone two managers left in the good group, they were the ones always suggesting to put me on disciplinary but there is no proof. They were the one's overheard saying we need to get rid of him, might be able to get statement for that but other employees are scared.

 

Current disciplinary which I lost today.

 

There was no pint 1st investigation meeting. It was directly to disciplinary. Letter sent to me did not indicated maximum possible penalty it also did not have any paperwork attached proving my mistake. It was only handed down to me during meeting on Wednesday.

 

As far as I know disciplinary letter needs to have date/time and place of meeting, who will be on it, points of concern, any evidence employer has and possible penalty so I can prepare my self correctly. Is that the case?

 

The points them self do not warrant penalty I got.

 

I have fallowed procedure to the letter, however another person did not and did not file correctly dated report in right place (my fault was not executing common sense to check the date). In fact no one filed said report there for at least 3 days before. I mentioned that and provided evidence but it was ignored.

Similar situation has happened with other employees but they had no action taken against them, I will look up e-mail as proof of that for my appeal.

No action was taken against employee's that did not file the reports.

2nd point was my word against guest that complained. I have send e-mail detailing what happened long before guest did and they were similar but not the same in details. They took guests view completely ignoring mine. Security issue popped up again. I was alone at desk and offered guest to wait 5min for my colleague to come back but guest did not want to wait. However in complaint letter guest never said I offered that. When I was sending the e-mail detailing the issue I pointed out we do not have standard form apology letters that we could use to send to guest and it would be a good idea to have one, I also pointed out I was alone and guest did not want to wait. I am not allowed to give any discounts and procedure states that all I should do is log complaint and senior manager will investigate. Ignored by employer I was done for not investigating and contacting the guest.

 

I will be appealing the latest one on couple of grounds can someone confirm if they are ok:

 

1. Did not fallow internal procedure as no investigation meeting held before hand.

2. When disciplinary investigation letter was send out nothing was attached with it, no letter of complaint or any other evidence.

3. In the letter there is no mention why investigation meeting was skipped or what might be the outcome of disciplinary.

4. Point out that despite other employees making similar or even same error in past I was the only one punished (provide proof).

5. Point out that I did fallow the correct procedure on my part however other employee did not which caused the mistake. He is not being investigated.

6. Point out that I have send an e-mail directly after incident detailing what happend and did mention lack of standardised apology letters for me to use.

7. Relating to point 6, point out that procedure in such case is to listen to guest, get his/hers complaint on paper and pass it on to senior manager for investigation. It should not be investigated by me.

 

 

 

I am also thinking I should go for bullying against the employer as well despite it being few that do it rest do not act on facts provided.

For example there was another employee that had a solicitor compose a letter of concern in regards of discrimination. She was told to keep quiet about certain incident which was in short sexist incident. She spoke to me and I advised her not to and even showed her which law was broken here. Incident was very odd one as from day one no manager was supporting her (worked with company for almost 2 years) but they did support new starter that worked for 3 weeks. I have all the details of that case and it is clear on that point.

 

Is there a case there, I have lost most confidence in what I do, honestly each time I need to go to work I get cranky and do not want to go or even get up. In general I like to work, to hang out with people but that place changed me.

 

Cheers

L

[Ruscik12]

Still no comments? Any reason as to why?

 

BTW I need to make my appeal by Tuesday latest so advice till then would be nice.

Edited November 19, 2011 by Ruscik12

[stu007]

Hi

 

Have a read of the ACAS Website will be very useful for you:

 

www.acas.org.uk

[Ruscik12]

Checked it, good help in regards of meetings.

 

Question, every single disciplinary in my place had investigation meeting. My last one did not. I was told long time ago that written rules or not if company runs disciplinary in a certain way they need to inform employees if they are changing that or it might be treated as not fallowing company rules. Is that correct?

[Ruscik12]

Also is making the disciplinary decision the very next day meeting was held normal? Or holding it for a day before they inform me (give it to me on my day off) so I loose one day of five that I have for appeal?

[stu007]

Hi

 

You want to appeal using these:

 

1. Did not fallow internal procedure as no investigation meeting held before hand. You would need to request a copy of the companies "Disciplinary & Grievances Procedure/Policy"

to ensure this was correct. (but you should already have been given a copy of this and if not why)

2. When disciplinary investigation letter was send out nothing was attached with it, no letter of complaint or any other evidence. This letter should at the least have explained the reason for the meeting, your rights to be accompined by either a union rep or work collegue, copies of there evidence, disciplinary procedures, appeals procedure your right to call witnesses.

3. In the letter there is no mention why investigation meeting was skipped or what might be the outcome of disciplinary. You would need a copy of the compines Disciplinary & Grievances procedure to be able to verify if this was the case.

4. Point out that despite other employees making similar or even same error in past I was the only one punished (provide proof). As you point out you would actually need physical evidence to back this up, letters, emails, witnesses.

5. Point out that I did fallow the correct procedure on my part however other employee did not which caused the mistake. He is not being investigated. You can do this but you will need to be factual about it.

6. Point out that I have send an e-mail directly after incident detailing what happend and did mention lack of standardised apology letters for me to use. You could mention it.

7. Relating to point 6, point out that procedure in such case is to listen to guest, get his/hers complaint on paper and pass it on to senior manager for investigation. It should not be investigated by me.

 

Were your Rights explained to you at the disciplinary hearing at the beginning of it?

What was the disciplinary hearings outcome and did they explain that you would have it in writing within next xx days which should give there reasons for the outcome?

[stu007]

Hi

 

This may assist you but please bear in mind this is only a rough guide and is not law:

 

 

Appeal Procedure Checklist

 

 

· The appeal meeting provides an opportunity to gather additional information that will enable you to make a decision based on all relevant considerations.

 

· Prior to the meeting—read the bundle of documents by the Association.

 

 

AT THE MEETING

 

 

· Introduce all Parties present to the proceedings and the role they will play.

 

· Explain the purpose of the meeting, emphasising the grounds for appeal.

 

· Ensure that the employee understands that the original decision may be upheld or may result in a more severe penalty (depending upon the type of appeal).

 

· Outline the format the meeting will take.

 

· Explain to the staff member that they will have the opportunity to challenge evidence, Call witnesses and provide any mitigating explanation.

 

· Give the employee the opportunity to challenge any witness statements by asking Questions of the witness.

 

· To eliminate the possibility of any misunderstanding, agree a summary of the staff members case.

 

· If the employees explanation is not satisfactory adjourn the meeting to reach a decision.

 

· If further investigations are necessary, inform the employee of this and carry out those investigations without undue delay.

 

 

MAKING A DECISION:

 

 

Ensure that the decision is made in light of all relevant considerations.

 

As chair, you can change a previous decision if it becomes apparent that it was not soundly based — such action does not undermine authority but rather makes clear the independent nature of the appeal.

 

 

If a change to the previous decision is being considered, consider the following:

 

 

● Was the original decision made through a fair process with appropriate consideration?

 

If not, why not?

 

● Was the original process followed carried out according to Associations Policy and Procedure?

 

If not, why not?

 

● Was the original decision reasonable considering the facts of the case?

 

● If there is new evidence to be considered, what is the relevance to the original and the appeal case?

 

If the decision is overturned consider whether further training needs to be improved, if rules need clarification, or if there are other implications to be considered. Feed organisational learning back to the association.

 

 

INFORMING THE APPELLANT:

 

 

Inform the appellant of the results of the appeal and the reasons for the decision and confirm it in writing. Make it clear that the appeal panels decision is final.

 

Agree the contents of the letter informing the appellant of the outcome, with the HR Manager and sign it.

 

 

********REMEMBER THIS IS ONLY A GUIDE AND IS NOT LAW****************

[Ruscik12]

Bit from our employee handbook in regards of disciplinary:

 

Ø you are fully aware of the standards of performance, action andbehaviour required of you

Ø disciplinary action, where necessary, is taken speedily and in a fair,uniform and consistent manner

Ø you will only be disciplined after careful investigation of the factsand the opportunity to present your side of the case. On some occasions temporary suspension onfull pay may be necessary in order that an uninterrupted investigation can takeplace. This must not be regarded asdisciplinary action or a penalty of any kind

Ø other than for an "off the record" informal reprimand, youhave the right to be accompanied by a fellow employee, who may act on behalf ofthe employee but must not interject on questions put directly to the employee. The employee must answer the questionunaided.

Ø you will not normally be dismissed for a first breach of discipline,except in the case of gross misconduct

Ø if you are disciplined, you will receive an explanation of the penaltyimposed and you will have the right to appeal against the finding and thepenalty.

[stu007]

Hi

 

Yes thats from the employee handbook what you actually want is the Companies full Disciplinary & Grievance Procedure/Policy not just whats written in that handbook

[Ruscik12]

We never got that, I never got that at any of the meetings.

[stu007]

Just remember as the company are using this Policy/Procedure against you you are fully entitled to request a copy.

 

That way you can check when the policy was produced, when it was due for review (this is on to look out for because if its passed its review date well need i say more), if it matches whats written in the employee handbook etc.

[Ruscik12]

HM interesting as said never seen it. Will there be a date of last review and is review always every year?

[stu007]

Hi.

 

The employers Disciplinary & Greviance Procedure/Policy doesnt review can be for example set at 3yrs from being reviewed but if employment law changes then changes may need to be made to that policy/procedure to ensure its full up to date with the law.

 

Also the Employee handbook will also be the same when was that last updated.

 

Also have a good read of ACAS Code of Practice 1, April 2009, Disciplinary & Grievance Procedures its also available on there website to download. (You could print off and take a copy with you to appeal to see there reaction).

[Ruscik12]

Ok in short had my meeting which was more sensible this time.

 

1. The entire disciplinary procedure they have is what I pasted here from employee hand book. They have nothing else. No document detailing steps. In employee handbook except what I posted there are also all possible warnings listed and a list of positions (senior manager, manager and so on) entitled to give warnings. For example verbal can be given by Mananger but written has to be given by senior manager. There is no step by step guide how to run disciplinary procedure, how they choose who runs the procedure, how they choose who is the note keeper, weather there should always be investigation procedure or not and so on. In short there is no hard copy of Companies Disciplinary and Grevience procedure so it seems they can do what they want. Employee handbook was last updated long time ago but nothing changed in grevience/disciplinary department despite there being changes in law, mainly equality act. I think it should reflect those changes like right to know how much another person is earning within company?

 

2. Manager I had my meeting with seemed mre hellbent on finding out the truth about what happend, why it happend (company fault as wrong procedure, human error or else) not vindicating me. He seemed surpirsed that other people were not investigated for same offence in past (I found the e-mail) and was surpirsed that except a human error of not checking the date I had fallowed company procedure yet it still led to a problem.

 

In short entire process was this time competent however fact that the same manager has put me 3rd time on disciplinary with no proof, vague proof or putting just me for it and skipping other employees committing the same offence. Funny as previous disciplinary I had was overturned for those very reasons!

 

Interesting what will happen.

[Ruscik12]

Hi Guys fallowing on my previous post: "Feel like I am picked on at work - do not know if I have a case need advice."

 

Just want to let know the outcome and ask what next? I think I should get my free consultation now as in my view employer has no fixed disciplinary procedure but rather makes it up on the go. It clearly shows there is no procedure for room moves yet I got a warning for not fallowing a room move procedure.

Went for an appeal armed and ready but that did not help. My points on appeal were:

 

P1. No investigation meeting prior to disciplinary despite club always doing that in past (there is proof)

P2. No evidence provided with letter inviting me to disciplinary despite that alway being the case in past (there is proof)

P3. No possible outcome of disciplinary hearing mentioned (like maximum penalty expected) despite that always being done in past (there is proof)

P4. Provided proof that issue with same mistake, just steps that lead to mistake are not exactly the same, has happened before and nothing was done to employees in question then

P5. I have fallowed correct procedure, for room moves, tought to me when I started however there is no written copy of said procedure, none was provided during meetings and one made for day team is not the same as for night team

P6. I fallowed the correct procedure in regards of guest complain and provided photocopy procedure as prove to that. On top I also mentioned tha there is no action taken by managers to make sure mistake does not happen again and there was no action taken in the past in regards of any investigation/disciplinary or 1 to 1 meetings I and others had. Unles that is by action they mean disciplinary and warning afterwards (which does not help me correct myself).

 

Reply to my appeal:

 

P1 Reply: - The procedure does not require a formal investigation to be conducted into every disciplinary matter.

 

P2 & P3 Reply: This was rectified at an appeal hearing.

 

P4 Reply: E-mail Attached "proving" OPS manager at time did investigate the matter. As OPS manager is not with company anymore they do not know the outcome of said investigation.

BTW the OPS manager reply that was given to me is "OK I will look in to that". Sorry but if there was a disciplinary or even investigation they must keep some of the notes on file as not all employees involved left. Even if they did it would be good practice to hold it for atleast 3 months.

 

P5 Reply: Your duties require you to ensure up to date rooming report is printed out nightly at start of shift. My investigation show that this was done, but not filed in the proper folder. You then twice reffered to old report where cursory glance at date of report would have showed it is not up to date. As a NM on shift it is up to you to ensure correct administration is carried out during the shift. I have found that there is no formal procedure to do room moves and I will seek to rectify that.

 

P6 Reply: As there is no witnesses to the situation it appears to be your word against hers.

 

On top of those points, as per suggestion here, I asked for work places disciplinary procedure. On the meeting itslef I was told we all have it, procedure is in employee handbook. When I queried that saying it does not look like a procedure as it has no points on to how the proceedings should be run, steps and so on I was told it is all in there. I have attached a copy of disciplinary procedure they reffer to:

 

Disciplinary Procedure.pdf

Edited December 13, 2011 by Ruscik12

[dx100uk]

pers i'd keep to one thread

 

its got the story

and

the advice already given

 

so's not to waste peoples time

 

dx

[stu007]

Hi Ruscik12

 

Your 'Disciplinary Procedures JPG' is too small to read could you possibly enlarge it for us.

Edited December 12, 2011 by stu007

[dx100uk]

threads merged

 

if you need to post up docs ...use:

 

scan the required letters/agreements/sheets

as a picture[jpg] file

remove all pers info inc barcodes etc using paint program

but leave all figures and dates.

 

goto one of the many free online pdf converter websites

it would be better to upload a multipage pdf

than many single ones

or if you have PDF as an installed printer drive use that

or use word and save as pdf

open a new msg box here

hit go advanced below the msg box

hit manage attachments below that box

hit the add files button on the top right

hit select files, navigate to your file on your pc

hit upload files

NB:you can set where it goes in the post by hitting insert inline.

the hit reply button

dx

[Ruscik12]

Ok sorry for that. Have added a pdf file now so all should be fine. It is in place instead of jpeg, well mostly as it seems deleting attachments is not quite working

[Ruscik12]

So as expected after the November disciplinary they foundyet another reason so am going to have disciplinary meeting on 13thFeb.

I got a letter inviting me to said meeting with twoaccusations, two points. Funny thing is, I do not know how to look at it,meeting is at 7:30am Monday morning. I do not work Sunday night so will have tomake special trip just for that. I do however work Monday 13thevening. Letter states that FOHM will find a suitable replacement so I canattend the meeting. Is it just me or do they already appear to know the outcomebefore I even had a meeting?

Could it just be a rota mistake, should I speak to themabout it?

Now the actual accusations during investigation meeting Ihad in January:

Point 1: It is alleged that you have given extra brakes tostaff working with you.

Point 2: It is alleged that by doing so you have put clubunder risk especially H&S and fire evacuation.

Before said meeting in January as part of my proof gatheringI recorded quite a bit of CCTV footage and went to each staff member withstatement example asking them if they would sign it as it is, amend and sign,do their own or not sign. All decide they will not sign any statement unlessemployer asks them to.

When I went on the January meeting they have added Point 3:It is alleged that you tried to influence the investigation by forcing staff tosign statements that are not truthful.

So during meet:

Point 1: I asked how come they only checked CCTV footage forshifts I worked on and no other? I got a reply they did check and it was onlyme allowing longer brakes. Then I provided CCTV evidence showing that saidlonger brakes are a common practice and common knowledge and I only did asinstructed. CCTV showed Senior Night Manager allowing longer brakes and FOHMdoing the same. After that move investigator, the FOHM jumped directly towastage rule.

Point 2: I only asked so how come if I give 1h extra braketo each staff member, one at the time but they stay in building, it is consideredbreach of H&S and Fire evacuation regulation but rota two people to work(where procedure states 3 always) is not a breach of said rules? Did not get areply to that.

Point 3, which was a surprise to me I might add: I askedfirst if they could clarify why they put this point here, do they mean I cannotdo my own investigation and gather evidence and they can, well no reply to that.Then I asked how did FOHM got these to which she replied all team members Ispoke to came, complained that I tried to force them to sign those and sheshowed me 4 example statements that I created. Now as I only spoke to 3 peopleout of 4 and printed 3 copies for them out of 4 I knew she lied there andchallenged here saying she got it off my work PC as I only spoke to 3 people,they were personal files and at the end no one signed them as they all agreedif employer asks them to they will wright one but only if they ask. She quicklychanged her story and started saying it is not your computer but work computerand they have right to check what is on it. I agreed to that. I just added thatI did try to postpone this meeting as they left me almost no time to consultanyone or gather evidence but they refused saying I do not need to preparemyself as it is only investigation meeting.

On same meeting I first asked but got no confirmation sothen I demanded and got no confirmation for investigator to ask each teammember in question to make their own statement asking open questions and I alsoprovided 3 questions I wanted them to ask on top of what they want to ask. Forwow long were the brakes allowed, was it on all shifts or just selected peopleif so whom and who instructed them to have longer brake. She just said she didnot expect me to tell her how to run investigation. I then turned to notekeeper and asked her to note down that my request was refused and asked her tonote down my questions.

I have also provided copies of my CCTV proof.

Since then entire January it took them to speak to 5 people.Rather than asking them for statements they did a one to one meeting with themasking 4 questions. However even before they asked those questions they said:

“This is an investigation meeting for xxxx. I am going toask you some questions in relation to that, you can choose not to answer to oneor any of them but if you do you need to say why. Do you understand?” – that justlooks to me like in essence forcing them to reply even if they do not want to.

1. How long brakes were they allowed to take and onwho’s shift?

2. Were there situations you were ever allowed totake longer brakes at?

3. Did you wright this statement (read outstatement I prepared as example) and did you sign it?

4. If you did/did not sign it then why?

Out of 5 people they spoke to on those one to one meetings replieswere mostly the same.

Q1: 5 people said one 1h one or two 3 min one’s (as incontract)

Q2: 1 said no. 1 said sometimes if they are unwell or extremelytired but it happens on shifts with any manager. 1 said that only I allow herto take longer brakes and that she never takes longer one on other shifts (gotCCTV footage to show she is lying as she is new starter on probation one mightthink they did push her). 1 said that he always takes one brake of 1h and only Ialways offer him extra 1h one but he always refuses (got CCTV footage showinghim taking longer brakes with other manager). While the 5th personthe other manager said he never allows for longer brakes then total of 1hunless someone is extremely unwell then he lets them go home early (again gotplenty of CCTV footage showing everybody taking longer brakes on his shift).

Q3: All 4 replied no they did not wright it and all said nothey did not sign it but one said she never seen it.

Q4: 2 replied they did not sign it as if they will be doingany statement it will be in their own words only then one added she also felt Ishould have done a meeting with all 4 of them to discuss it and I said no needfor that (it is correct I did not want to look like I am conspiring) 1 repliedshe never signed it as I never spoke to her about it. 1 replied he does not seea benefit in him or team signing the statements so he did not sign and also hebelieves for it to be not truthful. 5th person the manager said hegot the statements from my workstation as he was tipped about it by one of thestaff members (the one that said he does not see benefit in signing it). Theyasked the manager a fallow up question. Did you speak to team members about itand what did they say?

2 of them apparently replied to him they did not sign it asit was not in their own words. 1 apparently replied that “If x wants to getmoney out of club he should not involve the team” and one said she was neverasked to sign it. I know the money statement is not truth as that guy wouldhide his head in sand if he was attacked hoping for it all to blow over.

It seems to me they do not have much to go by for point 2 atall as statements they got are either quite clear lies or even if they chooseto believe in them most of them say I did nothing wrong ever in regards ofbrakes so point 1 should be dismissed and except one none say I tried toinfluence them to sign.

I am going to send employment tribunal paperwork on Monday andneed help in regards of what accusations against club I should put in there?

I was thinking in regards of my original post.

Did not fallow on their own procedure which states therealways should be investigation meeting. Did not fallow the normal establishedroute for disciplinary that was fallowed in the past. My punishment wasseverely stronger then punishment to other staff members that did the samemistake. Finally they choose to not take evidence I provided and as such choosenot to take under consideration litigating circumstances. As such they did notfallow their own rules where investigations are to be fair and punishmentsfitting the crime and on the same level to all employees.

For current one I need some suggestions but I am alreadythinking something in the lines off employer being fully aware statements arepartially or entirely untruthful yet they still pursue the disciplinary againstme. Employer is aware other staff members are doing the same yet they only pursuedisciplinary against me. Employer seems to know the outcome of my disciplinarymeeting even before I had said meeting (a week before) as they have alreadymentioned cover for my shift, I am to work on day of my meeting, is beingarranged.

As I am the only worker from Poland in entire FOH team (and2 or 3 in entire hotel) I am being clearly vindicated and the only reason I seeis based on my nationality.

I have been removed from all trainings bar the ones that arecompulsory to all staff members. Despite entire FOH team going. I even have ane-mail saying they will remove me from training and reschedule in later date(that was in September 2011) which they never did.

I would also like to mention my previous older disciplinarymeetings where for example they had accusations thrown at me despite them noteven having dates/names or any other proof I did that so they could not evenprove I was there at the time. Or again I was accused of doing something wrongthat everyone else is doing wrong but again only I was prosecuted.

I was unfairly dismissed in short based on all the pointsabove.

Any other suggestions to what I could put in there to makemy case stronger?

Any suggestions on how to put it on the actual tribunalform?

Finally two questions in regards of reference:

Can employer give bad reference at all as my mate swearsemployer cannot? I however think they can as long as they are truthful? Mostjust choose not to in fear of prosecution so instead of bad one they saynothing or is not reemploy able. Which one is correct?

Also if I start employment tribunal case can they still,during reference process, mention all disciplinary I had and dismissal that Iam querying at employment tribunal or do they kind off go on hold till decisionis made?

Is it up to me in employment tribunal to prove I wasunfairly dismissed or up to employer to prove they had grounds to dismiss me?

Finally same question as above but in regards ofdiscrimination based on my nationality.

[Ruscik12]

I also want to add that 3 people out of 5 questioned have not only their job to protect but also home as they are living in staff for £120 a month all inclusive in central London. Living in contract can be terminated with no reason given and only has 1 week notice. 4th person as mentioned is on probation.

[Bigredbus]

Hi,

Could you find 5 minutes of your time to go back to your posts and extract the important bits out of them, please?

(a) When did you start work with your current employer?

(b) What is your position?

© What are your working hours?

(d) Do you have a copy of your ''contract'' and other documents related to your employment?

In relation to the disciplinary actions taken against you by your employer...

(a) When was that first action taken? and what was the outcome?

(b) When was the second action taken? and what was the outcome?

When you say '' I have been removed from all trainings bar the ones that are compulsory to all staff members. Despite entire FOH team going. I even have ane-mail saying they will remove me from training and reschedule in later date(that was in September 2011) which they never did''.

(a) What does FOH means?

(b) Do you hold information about training other night managers and staff went through?

[Ruscik12]

Could you find 5 minutes of your time to go back to yourposts and extract the important bits out of them, please?

 

(a) When did you start work with your current employer?

- September 2009

(b) What is your position?

- Night Manager

© What are your working hours?

- 20:00 till 8:00

(d) Do you have a copy of your ''contract'' and otherdocuments related to your employment?

Yes. Contract, all amendments, employee handbook, allother letters regarding holidays, bank holidays anything specific you wouldneed to know

In relation to the disciplinary actions taken againstyou by your employer...

 

(a) When was that first action taken? and what was the outcome?

First one was in October 2010 and second one aboutAugust 2011 but those I cannot appeal against in court anymore so can only usethem to establish (show) that club does not fallow procedure.

The two I want to appeal in court. 16 November final decisionfrom appeal that I lost when my written warning was converted to final writtenwarning.

(b) When was the second action taken? and what was the outcome?

Second one started 4th January with investigationmeeting and is on-going. I have now disciplinary meeting scheduled for 13thFebruary.

 

When you say ''I have been removed from all trainingsbar the ones that are compulsory to all staff members. Despite entire FOH teamgoing. I even have ane-mail saying they will remove me from training andreschedule in later date(that was in September 2011) which they never did

 

(a) What does FOH means?

FOH is Front of House as entire team.

FOHM – Front of House Manager

SNM – Senior Night Manager

(b) Do you hold information about training other night managers and staff wentthrough?

We have a rota for all trainings for entire year. Mostof FOH team went on more than one. Senior Night Manager and rest of my nightteam but me also went on additional training that the entire front of housewent to. I am the only one that was scheduled to go but it was postponed. Ihave that proof as e-mail.

[Bigredbus]

Thank you for the time you spent answering the last post.

 

Now, these next questions may seem blunt but they are important...

 

(a) do you have a copy of your job description?

(b) during the course of your employment, were you aware of disciplinary actions taken against members of your team(s) or colleague(s) for similar situation(s)?

© when you say that your scheduled training session(s) was/were postponed, do you mean every training or a particular one?

 

Now, a piece of valuable information...

 

I understnad that your intention is to bring a case of racial discrimination against your current employer. As such, every disciplinary you have been subjected to is important in its own right and form part of your claim... It is an ongoing ''problem'', if I may say!

 

What you should do, in first instance, is bring all of your points to the knowledge of the General Manager, then, if you do not get a positive reply/feedback, you should pursue a legal course of action, with te help of a solicitors' firm.

[Ruscik12]

Now, these next questions may seem blunt but they are important...

 

(a) do you have a copy of your job description?

- do not have a copy of it at home, there is one in a folder at work

(b) during the course of your employment, were you aware of disciplinary actions taken against members of your team(s) or colleague(s) for similar situation(s)?

- I am aware that in case of November disciplinary I pointed to similar situation(mistake) made by other team members and all they got was a chat with head receptionist. For my employer that means they received the same treatment/punishment as me when I got a final written warning.

- In current disciplinary I am to attend on 13th I have pointed out during investigation meeting that I am not the only one doing it but two managers above me do the same yet no action against them was taken. Further more one of them was running said investigation while the other provided statements against me.

© when you say that your scheduled training session(s) was/were postponed, do you mean every training or a particular one?

It was a particular one that was repeated thought the year 4 times afterwards and they never put me on it yet senior and junior night managers were put on it.

Before that there were other trainings that some team members went on that I did not but all in all every member of FOH team went on more then one training during last 12 months not counting compulsory training for all staff members like fire evacuation.

 

Now, a piece of valuable information...

 

I understnad that your intention is to bring a case of racial discrimination against your current employer. As such, every disciplinary you have been subjected to is important in its own right and form part of your claim... It is an ongoing ''problem'', if I may say!

 

Thx

 

What you should do, in first instance, is bring all of your points to the knowledge of the General Manager, then, if you do not get a positive reply/feedback, you should pursue a legal course of action, with te help of a solicitors' firm.

 

I did try to bring it at one time to their attention but it did not work. I did mention in Jan during my investigation meeting that I feel all of this is unfair. They offered me to start a grievance which I said no to as I said I know it will not help but will postpone the stress.

Issue with solicitor is that it is quite expensive and until I loose job I can not count on legal aid?