Received court summons from US company for Milton Keynes CC- Help? ** WON **

[lawrence158]

Hi Andy

 

yes it is-

[AndyOrch]

Simply complete the application and attach your Witness Statement/Affidavit with your evidence as to why jurisdiction can be contested.

State that the claimant as used a UK debt collection service for a US debt and (this is the vital point they have used a UK address as the Claimant)

were as the Claimant is based in the USA at address xxxxxxxx and the address given is for UK debt services xxxxxxxx.The Claimant has no jurisdiction to litigate this matter in the UK.

 

Andy

[lawrence158]

will do thanks again !

[TweedleDee]

It is a weak argument that a foreign company is not able to lodge a claim because they can't have a local address. It is called a service address within the jurisdiction. Normally it is a solicitor's address but they are within their rights to be Litigants in Person. If it was a solicitor acting for them, would that have changed anything? The answer to that question is no. Also, by submitting to the jurisdiction, the House of Lords as it was back then agreed that a counter-claim could also be lodged against the foreign claimant and they were not protected by their voluntary submission to the jurisdiction.

 

The real points of contention apart from the above well meaning but weak suggestion is as follows (in layman's terms):

 

There are no factors connecting this case with England and the real focus of the dispute is the conduct between the Defendant and the Claimant in the United States of America as to which factual and expert witnesses would have to called.

 

This dispute arises from services provided in the United States of America for a property in the United States of America and payment was to be made in the local denomination (USD). The law governing this dispute is the law of the United States.

 

The court in the United States of America is far better placed than an English court to hear and determine issues as to the business practices and conduct of all parties and apply the relevant state or federal laws as it sees fit.

 

Also, a line that if the court does find that the UK court has jurisdiction, it should not exercise it and stay the claim based on the above.

 

In your witness statement, you may well admit that you did have a contract but there was a dispute. Well, you did have a contract. The contract may be verbal or written, it doesn't matter as it is governed by law of the United States and on the whole with some exceptions, verbal contracts are enforceable just like in England for most contracts.

 

Apart from mentioning what happened, you also have to add as many of the points below if relevant. Do not use the Latin terms in brackets, they are there for reference:

 

- any witnesses or trade associations or expert witnesses that know about your issue and would be called.

- that you were domiciled in the USA if that was true at the time of the contract (lex domicilii).

- that the contract was entered in to in the USA (lex loci contractus).

- the terms of the contract were to be performed in the USA and that you were going to pay in the USA (lex loci solutionis) in USD (lex monetae).

- that the contract was going to be governed by American law in terms of cooling off periods, warranty, etc, if possible (lex causae).

- that if there were any disputes, that you would follow the regulatory regime in the USA (lex fori) such as the company stating that if you don't pay, they will take you to their local court.

 

Try to put a real strong American slant on the witness statement and also do try not to mention anything about the UK in general.

 

I leave you to your regular programming now and hope they can take you further with the new input.

[lawrence158]

Ok so iv'e got to put a defence in by wednesday- none of the templates or cases on here are very relevant to my situation and I really cannot afford to get a professional to draft my defence. i have however put it together but I'm concerned that i'm not quoting the CPR correctly and that my wording is too layman.... is there anyone out there who could give my doc the once over please? the above caggers have been so helpful already

thanks

[AndyOrch]

Why are you filing a defence if you dont accept UK jurisdiction? Have you made application?

 

Andy

[lawrence158]

Hi Andy,

 

I did make application challenging jurisdiction but the court said i need to file a defence by Wednesday and the Judge is only hearing the jurisdiction challenge on Tuesday- therefore the court told me I'd be out of time and risk a judgement by default if I didn't file it. I've also strated a new thread on this as after asking for disclosure of the invoice from the POS there is a $400 charge added on for 'debt collection'- is this unlawful???

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?323449-Help!-Can-a-Claimant-add-any-sum-to-claim-for-Debt-collection&p=3587691#post3587691

[AndyOrch]

I assume you have been told that verbally by phone (court staff) and not by direction in writing, according to the CPR it doesn't work like that Post#39.

The AoS and application stays the defence date and on conclusion the claim is dealt with.If the application of jurisdiction failed then you would then be prompted to enter

a further AoS as the claim starts again and then a defence within the required time. To submit a defence before the application is dealt with is really an acceptance of jurisdiction. As for your other thread $400 they can forget that also.

 

Andy

[lawrence158]

Hi Andy,

 

so this is getting very strange now- I sent the N244 with an application to have the claim struck out as the US claimant has no nexus with the UK etc etc. I have received a letter today from the court to say that an order has been made and the proceedings have been transferred to Liverpool CC. I called the court today and they said that my application for challengning jurisdiction is successful as proceedings have moved away from Milton Keynes CC. Does that means that my application has not been read? as I said that I didn't believe this claim belonged in any UK court not just Milton Keynes CC. The lady at the court said I'm out of time too to file a defence. I mentioned the CPR and the fact that it says I can't file until I know the outcome of the jurisdiction challenge and again they told me that I'm out of time. I'm going to try speak witj Liverpool CC tomorrow but can they just keep transferring it in response to my application?

[AndyOrch]

I assume Liverpool is your local CC Lawrence and the transfer could be for different reasons.To deal with the Strike Out or one of the reasons in red below ? Please clarify with Liverpool.

 

If your application was successful as you state then you should receive a Notice or General Order

 

(6) An order containing a declaration that the court has no jurisdiction or will not exercise its jurisdiction may also make further provision including –

(a) setting aside the claim form;

 

(b) setting aside service of the claim form;

© discharging any order made before the claim was commenced or before the claim form was served; and

 

(d) staying the proceedings.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[lawrence158]

Just to let you all know- we had the hearing last week at Liverpool CC and the Judge found in our favour and made an order declaring that: An order containing a declaration that the court has no jurisdiction or will not exercise its jurisdiction

(a) setting aside the claim

So relieved ! thank you all for your help without which we would not have been able to defend ourselves.

Lisa

[AndyOrch]

Well done Lisa.

 

Delighted this as been resolved for you.I will ask for your thread title be amended accordingly.

 

Regards

 

Andy

[the_shadow]

Brilliant news

 

Title changed

[cerberusalert]

Well done.

[cerberusalert]

I've moved the thread back into the overseas forum so anyone with a similar problem will be able to access it more easily.