Received court summons from US company for Milton Keynes CC- Help? ** WON **

[AndyOrch]

Well if they are using a UK address as the Claimants address and their US name its an abuse of court process and I think away to dodge jurisdiction.

There may be trouble ahead........

 

Andy

 

 

Heres another :- Jack Russell Collections and Investigations

[AndyOrch]

The jurisdiction of a court is the territory over which a court has power to make and enforce orders. When it is used in this sense, it is a geographical area. The jurisdiction of English Courts is England and Wales and any part of the territorial waters of the United Kingdom adjoining England and Wales.

The word is used in another sense to indicate whether or not a court has power to adjudicate a dispute. If the court is competent to hear a dispute, it is said to have jurisdiction. Jurisdiction may be disputed on the basis of the nature or characteristics of the parties to the litigation or the characteristics of the dispute before it.

Whether or not a court has power to hear international disputes, parties may bring a challenge as to whether the court does have power hear and determine dispute. For example, if the dispute has no nexus with England or Wales, an English court is likely to decline to hear the matter, as the dispute and associated litigation has no business before English court. Some other court would be a more appropriate forum for the parties to resolve and determine their disputes.

Also, it may be that a claimant is not recognised by English Courts as having say, locus standi, or capacity to sue (such as a minor), or a defendant enjoys immunity from suit (such as a diplomat).

 

English courts will have jurisdiction against foreign defendants (whether a company or individual) where:

1. the defendant submits to the jurisdiction;
   
2. the defendant is in the jurisdiction, even on a transitory basis, and they are properly served in accordance with the Civil Procedure Rules. The court may decide at a later date that English courts and the lex situs is forum non conveniens;
   
3. a rule of law permits the claimant to serve the defendant out of the jurisdiction. For commencement of proceedings in most countries (the notable exception is members of the European Union) is subject to the discretion of the court. The court will consider whether England is the most appropriate forum for a trial on the issues to be litigated (a forum conveniens).
   

These rules are generally relied upon when no treaty or convention exists to serve proceedings out of the jurisdiction.

 

Usage: A supplier from France to the UK market submitted to the exclusive jurisdiction of the courts of England on the basis of its contracts entered into with UK companies.

[cerberusalert]

Well if they are using a UK address as the Claimants address and their US name its an abuse of court process and I think away to dodge jurisdiction.

There may be trouble ahead........

 

Andy

 

 

Heres another :- Jack Russell Collections and Investigations

 

yep they're all part of a group.

 

Cumbria Office (for Cumbria, Teeside, Durham, Tyne & Wear and North

Yorkshire) Cheshire (for Cheshire and Isle of Man)

 

Jack Russell Collections & Investigation Agency

11 Woodend Terrace

Tebay Penrith

Cumbria

CA10 3UZ

 

Freephone: (0800) 0685151

 

Tel: +44 (0) 1539 624844

 

cumbria@debtcollect.co.uk

[lawrence158]

Thank you so much for the above information- Do you think we could argue that it is a deliberate attempt to get around jurisdiction? I don't see why the US company would say they were trading from that address otherwise ? Can the claim be dismissed if the Milton Keynes court deems that it does not have jurisdiction?

[AndyOrch]

Lawrence I'm not sure if you have a scanner but can you scan a copy of the summons less any personal data and post up.

Now why would a company in Cumbria serve a summons in Milton keynes or not use CCBC (Northampton)?????

 

Andy

[cerberusalert]

If the case is defended it's moved to your local court in any case. I've a feeling they're are trying for either an undefended or default judgement.

[lawrence158]

A US company using Milton Keynes CC for an address in Cumbria.... I don't have a scanner here- I can scan it from work tomorrow or I can write up the particulars?

[cerberusalert]

I would send them a CPR31.14 (or possibly a CPR18) to see what they are going to rely on in any case.

[AndyOrch]

I would just contest jurisdiction and complete the AoS and defend all.You would then make application to your reasons and name the Claimant with their US address

and state that they have substituted their address for a UK Debt Collector.There is nothing to disclose apart from an invoice.

 

Andy

[lawrence158]

i suspected that the company was making bogus charges on my account and asked them for some invoices/receipts for work allegedly carried out on my property in Florida (in writing). They said that thay could not provide any receipts or sales invoices and so I disagreed with the charges (dated 31.04.11). Jack Russel contacted me in July and i told them that an invoice was in dispute. I heard nothing else until the claim. I would therefore like to see the invoice and request proof of the works carried out on my property- can I do that with a CPR 31.14. They have mentioned in the POC an invoice dated 31.07 that we have not seen. Also the account was with 2 parties but the summons has only been served on me. Will the court be interested in these facts or do I need to use case law? Can I mention that they are trying to hoodwink the court by using £ calculation and a UK address?

[AndyOrch]

By all means request a copy of said invoice using CPR 31.14 , if you was to contest as I have advised it should be struck out.

 

Andy

[cerberusalert]

Go with andyorch's advice about contesting jurisdiction. If the court decides that it has the jurisdiction to hear the case you can then send the CPR 31.14.

[lawrence158]

So if we sent the AoS and tick that we intend to challenge jurisdiction- what is the sequence of events- would i have time to send a CP13.14 if the court decided to hear the case? Wouldn't this all happen at the same time?

[AndyOrch]

"When a person out of the jurisdiction voluntarily enters an appearance before a court of England (other than to contest jurisdiction of the court), the court has jurisdiction over the defendant. The principle applies whether or not there is a previous agreement between the litigants. The rationale is based on the theory that a person who would otherwise not be subject to the jurisdiction of the courts consents to the jurisdiction by challenging the merits of the case.

Usually the first form of communication with a court by a defendant will be by filing an acknowledgment of service. It is at this point that the defendant notifies the court that it intends to contest the jurisdiction of the court. By failing to file an acknowledgment of service (assuming service has been properly effected), the claimant may proceed to obtain Summary Judgment on the claim. Any other step that amounts to a recognition of the court’s jurisdiction in respect to the particular claim will be taken to be a submission to the jurisdiction, such as filing a Defence or requesting an extension of time for filing a Defence. "

 

Procedure for disputing the court’s jurisdiction

 

11

 

(1) A defendant who wishes to –

(a) dispute the court’s jurisdiction to try the claim; or

 

(b) argue that the court should not exercise its jurisdiction

 

may apply to the court for an order declaring that it has no such jurisdiction or should not exercise any jurisdiction which it may have.

 

(2) A defendant who wishes to make such an application must first file an acknowledgment of service in accordance with Part 10.

 

(3) A defendant who files an acknowledgment of service does not, by doing so, lose any right that he may have to dispute the court’s jurisdiction.

 

(4) An application under this rule must –

(a) be made within 14 days after filing an acknowledgment of service; and

 

(b) be supported by evidence.

 

 

(5) If the defendant –

(a) files an acknowledgment of service; and

 

(b) does not make such an application within the period specified in paragraph (4),

 

he is to be treated as having accepted that the court has jurisdiction to try the claim.

 

(6) An order containing a declaration that the court has no jurisdiction or will not exercise its jurisdiction may also make further provision including –

(a) setting aside the claim form;

 

(b) setting aside service of the claim form;

 

© discharging any order made before the claim was commenced or before the claim form was served; and

 

(d) staying the proceedings.

 

 

(7) If on an application under this rule the court does not make a declaration –

(a) the acknowledgment of service shall cease to have effect;

 

(b) the defendant may file a further acknowledgment of service within 14 days or such other period as the court may direct; and

 

© the court shall give directions as to the filing and service of the defence in a claim under Part 7 or the filing of evidence in a claim under Part 8 in the event that a further acknowledgment of service is filed.

 

 

(8) If the defendant files a further acknowledgment of service in accordance with paragraph (7)(b) he shall be treated as having accepted that the court has jurisdiction to try the claim.

 

(9) If a defendant makes an application under this rule, he must file and serve his written evidence in support with the application notice, but he need not before the hearing of the application file –

(a) in a Part 7 claim, a defence; or

 

(b) in a Part 8 claim, any other written evidence.

 

 

 

So 14 days after AoS you then file an application N244

 

Regards

 

Andy

[lawrence158]

Hi Andy,

 

Thank you for the explanation but could you pls clarify something for me as you understand it. I haver sent the AoS, if I now make an application challenging jurisdiction and the court do not agree with it or do not make an order in my favour will I subsequently be able to file my defence or is it a case of if you challenge jurisdiction and it doesn't go in your favour then thats it? I spoke to Milton Keynes CC and the lady there advised that you should file your challange of jurisdiction together with your defence. But as you quite rightly say filing defence would assume that you accept the courts jurisdiction which I do not.

Also what is form N244- do I need to send this with my challenge for jurisdiction?

L

[AndyOrch]

Hi Lawrence

 

If you read my post 39, its all explained , you don't file a defence, just an AoS and within 14 days an application N244 with your evidence.

If this is rejected you then file another AoS within 14 days and then a defence and proceed as normal.

 

The N244 is an application Notice just google and download and complete on screen then print off,serve a copy on the Claimant and one for court and retain one for your file.You enter your reasons why and evidence on this application.

 

Ok?

 

Andy

[TweedleDee]

Not to step on anyone's toes however I have to point out something I believe is really important.

 

This is Private International Law (PIL) also known as the Conflict of Laws. Its rules are complex and not intuitive.

 

By contesting the jurisdiction, you are stating that the better forum for your case is the States and that the UK courts should not pay heed to this. If you are successful, you are submitting yourself to the jurisdiction of the foreign court and with it, its associated penalties and judgment. This will require you to go to court in the USA and defend yourself and if you do lose, the plaintiff in the USA can instigate court proceedings in the UK and go for summary judgment. This summary judgment will not be based on the merits of the case but on whether you got the chance to defend yourself, you got served, etc. The second court case in the UK is because we don't have an agreement with the USA on these matters, thus it is based on common law.

 

Now how do you know that they haven't already obtained a judgment against you in the USA and are just enforcing the judgment here?

 

May I suggest that you find yourself a PIL specialist who would better advise you on this as there are a lot of gottchas with this, and with all due respect to the contributors of this thread, may be outside their general knowledge.

 

In addition, there is no bar for a local agent of a foreign company from instigating court proceedings against you.

 

Just an alternative point of view on things.

[lawrence158]

thatnk you for that gosh! that throws a bit of a spanner in the works then! I know they haven't got a judgement against me in the US. I doubt I'll be able to afford a PIL specialist hence though so unsure now how to proceed. I can't find any precedent on this site or indeed on google which would help further...

[TweedleDee]

PIL is a specialist subject which is not covered by google unfortunately which is why you need a legal library such as LexisNexis.

 

It is your choice to contest jurisdiction however keep in mind that if you do so, you are (1) estopped from claiming that the USA is not the right forum (2) that if successful, you will probably have to fly out there to fight it.

 

If you do want to contest jurisdiction, you will need some very strong arguments as to why you should not be dealt with in the UK, seeing that it is local to you, you are domiciled here, the standard of justice in the UK is the same as the USA, etc ad infinitum.

 

There would be a hearing just for that issue if the agents do contest your forum non conveniens stance.

 

This is why I advised you to speak to a PIL specialist. They would be able to advise you on the best way forward taking into account your circumstances as contesting and non-contesting leaves you liable in either forum. I would check if you are covered for legal services either via home insurance, work perk, etc or even try the CAB. There are a number of pro-bono legal services which can help but I haven't seen anyone offer PIL services in that capacity.

 

If worst comes to worst, it will cost you roughly £200 for an hour's consultation which is a lot of money but leaves you in a better mindset as to what to do next. The decision is yours.

Edited September 29, 2011 by TweedleDee
touch typing errors

[AndyOrch]

£200 per hour on a £1300 debt sounds like a logical move, cheaper to accept and admit Lawrence.

But we still have the matter of the Claimant (a US Company) using a UK companies address as the claimants, why not just list their Florida Address

or does PIL prevent that? I will leave you in the capable hands of this poster Lawrence.

 

Best of luck

 

Regards

 

Andy

[TweedleDee]

£200 per hour on a £1300 debt sounds like a logical move, cheaper to accept and admit Lawrence.

 

Maybe I misunderstood but it is roughly £175-£200 for a consultation on a £1300 debt... that is a logical move for me if I had the money. I don't understand where you got the cheaper it is to accept and admit when it clearly isn't? Like I said, maybe I misunderstood.

[lawrence158]

the thing is we don't have this debt- its totally bogus that's why i don't want to pay money I haven't got to defend/pursue it.........nightmare!

[TweedleDee]

As mentioned by others, you can fight the jurisdiction and if successful, live to breathe another day or you can fight the case in the UK as they are submitting themselves to UK jurisdiction and close it here.

 

Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

 

If you don't think they will pursue the claim in the USA, then you can dispute jurisdiction and see it all the way through.

 

Whatever you decide, the forum regulars will try and help you to the best of their ability.

[lawrence158]

Very very gratefuel to all at the forum for their helpful input - donation on its way!

x

[AndyOrch]

Is the application with regards to your jurisdiction dispute?

 

Andy