Andydug v HSBC ***WON***

[Andydug]

Hi all, been reading all your posts (very helpful) and am about to start a claim against HSBC (£1500ish) - just a quick question tho - I got the details of past charges which i got online so i'm hoping i don't need to send the SAR to save a bit of time - however, the charges are for different amounts and i don't know if they relate to overdraft penalties or other kinds of penalties - will i need to know which kind of penalties they are? if so will i need to send the SAR anyway and will it show the info i need?

 

thanks,

AD

[lisamellor]

if i were you then id hand deliver my sar/dpa request with a 10.00 and ask the branch for a receipt. then the 40 days start there and then.

 

i would want to know what the charges are for. you dont want to rush into things. you need to know what the charges are for.

 

best of luck lisax

[Andydug]

Thanks Lisa, i'll take your advice and deliver the SAR and get some kind of dated receipt for it. With regards to the fee - i'm claiming on 2 accounts - is it still £10? they are for a current account in my name only and a joint account in mine and my wife's name.

 

thanks,

 

AD

[DAB 40]

Hi. All you need is the dates and amounts of the charges. It is really irrelevant whether they were for returned cheques or overdraft charges (provided they are not service charges for an agreed overdraft). If you have the above you need to write the preliminary approach letter to HSBC (look in statutes library on this site). You will need to give HSBC 14 days to respond so you can prepare your schedule of charges in that time. You can claim interest on the charges (using the spreadsheet in the library) - personally I couldn't dowload this and didn't bother with it - but you can't claim back any interest charged in respect of overdraft as it is quite reasonable for the bank to claim this. You shoud read the frequently asked questions as they give you all the information you will need.

 

PS. I started my claim in June and just been offered full amount of £3,488.00

 

Good Luck!

[angela1606]

hi i agree with dab i just wrote what they had put on statement i also used my online statements good luck

[Andydug]

Ok, many thanks for the advice - i'm gonna deliver the PAR tomorrow (26th) and go from there. i've found the HSBC online statements easy to use so i'm not bothering with the S.A.R - (Subject Access Request). (afterall THEY know wot they've taken from my account !)

 

- I REALLY need to buy a new printer - mines broke and i'm having to juggle it all at home/work and its doing my head in !

 

Moderated - Please refrain from libelous comments.

[Andydug]

Ok - just wondering if this is co-incidental or not - sent my PAR a few days ago - not had an addressed reply yet but have had a standard letter detailing all bank charges and how to avoid them ! any one else had one of these lately?

[Andydug]

OK the story so far - been busy with work so went over the 14day deadline for the LBA. however, i did receive a letter from the bank of the usual sort - here it is, wondered if anyone had any comments on my reply - i want to make some points about bad customer service but don't wanna be to cocky

 

here they are:

 

Theirs:

 

Thank you for your recent letter concerning charges applied to your account. I am sorry tha you have had cause for complaint.

 

We do not agree with your contention that the charges that have been imposed by the Bank constitute a penalty clause and are therefore unenforceable.

 

The contract between the Bank and its customers is governed by HSBC's standard terms and conditions. In these circumstances, there is a process that involves the bank considering whether or not to pay the item. A fee is payable for this and the fees are set out in the published price list.

 

We enclose a copy of the relevant terms and conditions (not enclosed!"!) and a copy of of the latest price list for your information (also not enclosed !!!!).

 

Thank you once again for taking the time to bring your concerns to the Banks attention. I aonly sorry it was necessary for you to do so. I hope that matters have now been resolved to your satisfaction. (er, - NO!) However, should this not be the case, the attached guidance sheet explains the next steps available to you. (dont I decide wot i do next !)

 

The attached sheet states an address to send further letters of complaint to and states "if we do not hear from you within the next eight weeks, we will consider matters resolved. etc etc etc.

 

My response is: (the bits in blue are the bits i've changed, otherwise its the standard LBA letter.

 

Dears Mrs Phillips,

 

Thanks for your letter of 9th October 2006. I am also sorry that I have had cause for complaint, mainly due to the fact that the last charges applied to my account amounted to £125. I rang my local branch a number of times to discuss these charges, stating that I could not afford to pay them and asking for help in removing or reducing the charges. I was declined any help on each occasion.

 

I am very disappointed with the level of service applied to me during this time and I now understand that the regime of 'fees' which you have been applying to my account in relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

I would also like to bring to your attention that your letter stated that you had "enclosed a copy of the relevant terms and conditions and a copy of the latest price list for information". None of these items were enclosed however, which suggests to me that you have merely put your name to a standard letter.

As for advising me on "the next steps available to me" I beleive that decision is mine, not yours.

I calculate that you have taken £xxx from account number xxxx plus £xxx from account number xxxxxx. Total £xxxxxx.

I am enclosing a copy of the schedule of the charges which I am claiming. I have already sent you a copy of this in my original letter of the 26th September 2006.

I require repayment in full of this money. If you do not comply fully within 14 days then I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount plus interest plus my costs and without further notice.

Yours sincerely,

.

This does sound like a standard response from the bank, does any one agree?

It all seems to be going to plan but its funny, you do still feel threatened by the banks !

[Andydug]

is

[Andydug]

Ok, just done the online claim with MCOL - had loads of problems getting the info to fit onto 24 lines tho, as i'm claiming for 2 accounts and needed all the info on the claim form. All done now tho, so feeling happy.

 

PS just told my wife that as the accounts are in her name She'll be the 1 attending court if it goes that far !! Didn't go down well LOL !!!

[Andydug]

Received and offer today !! Got a reply to my LBA today (6th) - although it was dated 1st ! they have made an offer !

 

to cut a long story short it says that they do not agree that the charges are penalty clauses and that the charges have been applied according to their terms and conditions/price lists etc (which they actually enclosed this time!). but to resolve the siuation the bank is prepared to refund part of the amount in full and final settlement of my complaint

 

All this i expected, however, they say that the ruling relating to the Office of Fair Trading was in regard to credit card fees and not in relation to personal banking fees. I'm hoping they are talking about recent issues relating to credit card charges which has led to credit card companies now reducing their charges to £12, so hope my claim is still on track!

 

thing is - i've already completed the money claim online stuff and they should have received it either saturday or today - so i'll be accepting the offer as an installment on the full amount and will be continuing my case for the rest of it.

 

GETTING INTERESTING NOW !!!

any thoughts?

[Guest bong]

Hi Andy

 

don't worry about the credit card line..it's their standard reply, just accept in part payment but you'll probably find the offer will be withdrawn anyway and then you'll hear from DG solicitors.

 

all the best

[Andydug]

Thanks Bong, I'm guessing that they'd sent this reply before receiving the court papers:lol: , so i'll accept as an installment but carry on the claim for the remainder.

 

When i send my further schedule as i stated i would on the MCOL claim do i now include the interest charges? as they are included in the claim, along with the costs.

 

thanks

[Guest bong]

yes you include the spreadsheet with interest.

[Andydug]

Do i need to send a further letter ?

 

On 2nd Nov i began mcol claim online due to being fobbed off by bank

on 7th nov i received letter from HSBC with crappy offer

on 8th nov recevied Notice of issue from court "deemed to be served on the 8th"

 

do i need to send a letter back accepting the offer in part payment/installment (i've got to send the schedule of charges again anyway)

 

thanks guys

[Andydug]

Do i need to send a further letter ?

 

On 2nd Nov i began mcol claim online due to being fobbed off by bank

on 7th nov i received letter from HSBC with crappy offer

on 8th nov recevied Notice of issue from court "deemed to be served on the 8th"

 

do i need to send a letter back accepting the offer in part payment/installment (i've got to send the schedule of charges again anyway)

 

thanks guys

[Andydug]

Help ! I've forgotten to do something !

 

on 2nd Nov i filed my MCOL claim

on 3rd Nov I received measly offer from HSBC (which i intended to accept only as part payment.)

7/11 received Notice of issue from Court saying claim will be deemed served on the 8/11.

10/11 received acknowledgement of service of claim (which is attached to a copy of a response pack stating that HSBC intend to defend all of the claim.) this says "the defendant now has 28 days from the date of service of the claim form to file a defence"

 

No further news as yet.

 

However - i've forgotted to send a letter accepting the offer as part payment and have not sent a further schedule of charges to HSBC to include the interest charges - is it too late to send it now? also i've not kept a copy of the schedules and i can't get the interest figures to add up exactly as on the claim - does it matter.

 

ps they've also charged me a further £50 for going overdrawn (used wrong cheque book!)

 

any help would be much appreciated.

[Andydug]

Can anyone help me i'm running out of time - please see below.

[lateralus]

andy, calm down.

as for the offer - it would have vanished into thin air when you accepted it as partial payment = so no damage there.

 

as for your schedule - perfect opportunity to post it to dg today, tomorrow or monday, recorded delivery with this: please find attached a revised schedule of charges for claim xxxxx. send it to the person listed in your acknowledgment as the person at dg dealing with your claim.

 

as to the further charge - technically it would have to be a new claim - but in reality, when you write that little note to dg above - put something like: also, i have received a further charge on my account on xx/xx/06 and would appreciate your help in either reversing that charge, adding this charge to my existing claim as a goodwill gesture or whatever else you can think of to put. as a back-up or alternative, ask at your local branch (someone in authority), telling them you already have a claim filed and pending with them and ask as a goodwill gesture if they wouldn't like to reverse it. (tactfully pointing out that all this litigation can't be good for anyone - implying that you wouldn't hesitate to claim again). someone else may have better ideas - but those are mine.

[Andydug]

cheers lateralus, just to check, are you saying i should send the schedules with interest calculated to today? (rather than the date when i made the claim on MCOL)

 

Soz for being a nerd. I'm having an extension built and when we knocked thru my file 'went missing' in the mess and has only just surfaced.

 

thanks,

[lateralus]

not sure - think i'd make it up to today's date and then add "plus .xxp daily from this date until the claim is paid". then the bit about the extra 50 charge. firm but always polite is my motto. anyone else???

[Guest bong]

I think if you wanted the schedule to show interest as at the date you issued your claim you could overwrite the date on the spreadsheet to that date. Print (with an extra copy for you to keep on your own file) and then when you close the file don't save your changes, so that it reverts to the current date.

[Andydug]

Yeah i tried that but for some reason can't get back to the correct figure, so i think i'll send one with the interest calculated to today's date (i'm claiming it up until they pay anyway so hoping this won't cause a problem.

 

As they've also charged me a further £50 i'll mention that in the letter as well.

 

Wonder if anyone else has done this?

[Guest bong]

yes lots of people have. I think they usually pay it back. mention the fact that it is to save them costs if you have to raise a separate claim.

[Andydug]

This is my response, which i'm gonna send this aft - does it look ok?:

I write with reference to the above claim. Please find enclosed a revised schedule of charges for each account within the above claim. These further schedules have the interest calculated to up to today’s date and which will continue at a daily rate of £0.27 until the claim is paid.

In addition, I have received a further charge on my account xxxxxxxx on 14/11/06 for £50.00 and would appreciate your help in either reversing this charge as a gesture of goodwill or adding this charge to my existing claim as this would no doubt save you further costs on an additional claim.

 

I ought to have posted it yesterday really but couldn't.