Cooperative Bank - charging late payment fees, interest etc after Default/Termination Notices issued

[S**Tstreet]

I don't know where to start with this one which has been going on since 2008, and has become extremely complicated.

 

Basically I am now with a CAB agency that will lodge a further formal complaint with this bank regarding two defaulted credit card debts.

 

I now have evidence that they misled the financial ombudsman

did not disclose information to either my solicitor or the Police

regarding the fraud on these two accounts.

They did not carry out an internal investigation

marked on their computer systems that 'it was not fraud' in the middle of a police investigation,

which has left the case open to further disclosure.

 

in January 2010 the Coop placed both accounts into default and issued termination notices.

 

My credit reports show the amounts that were defaulted at this time.

 

On one credit card account two sets of Termination and Default Notices were issued

all showing different amounts that increased the debt with a 6 month gap in between.

Is this legal?

 

It has now also come to light that since CAB have taken on my case (april this year)

one of the credit card amounts is no longer on the online banking,

the other has doubled without my knowledge.

 

I have received no statements since the termination notices on both.

Yet both defaults are on my credit report with amounts the same as the first default notices.

 

On looking at the online statements the remaining card,

has been charged overlimit/late payments charges and interest on cash/merchanise since April.

 

Are banks able to levy these charges after default and termination?

 

Without advising me?

 

Are they also able to combine two defaulted debts into one without telling me and not reflecting this in my credit report?

 

Any information regarding this would be greatly appreciated, as it's worrying me sick.

[dx100uk]

urm..

 

something very very wrong.

 

i hope you have a paper trail on all this?

 

dx

[S**Tstreet]

Hi dx100k,

 

Yes there is a very extensive paper trail, and that is part of the problem, in how to condense it into the valid points. So much has gone wrong on these accounts that it's become extremely difficult to manage.

 

Are you able to provide me with answers to my questions please? Or would you require further info from me in order to answer?

[S**Tstreet]

I've checked the OFT debt collection guidelines, and understand the situation regarding these. However SAR copy of the original agreements is too poor to read to determine whether they are able to continue adding things like late payment fees, interest etc. after they have terminated the account.

 

I've tried searching the library here and the net for information, but have come up with a zero as to wether this is permitted. Can anyone help direct me where to look, or better still provide an answer please?

 

Many thanks

[S**Tstreet]

I would really appreciate some guidance on knowing what my rights are, to give me a bit of peace of mind, my CAB advisor is away at the mo..........

[dx100uk]

you can certainly reclaim aLL THE charges +their int

but you have wide issues here

 

try hitting the triangle and asking for help on this

 

not got time at present am moving.

 

dx

[S**Tstreet]

Thanks dx and good luck with your move, hope it's smooth and hassle free.

 

First where is the triangle that I hit? (sorry for being dense)

 

Secondly CAB also have this view, they will prepare a complaint on my behalf. They have said that it doesn't matter whether it's 10k or 100k they are going to dispute my liability with the Cooperative Bank.

 

It's infuriating that almost 3 years later, the Cooperative Banks response to CAB has been that they did not know they were in dispute! This is after contact from a solicitor, the FO, Police, and a very thick lever arch file of letters from me...

 

I would just like to know where I legally stand on these aspects - I feel totally helpless, it's like they have all the power to do whatever they like and make my life a living hell

[S**Tstreet]

The only triangle I can see is one that marks my posts as offensive :/ Help anyone?

[dx100uk]

no its a help call as well

 

dx

[cerberusalert]

Have you been back in touch with the FSA with evidence that the Co-op misled them?

[cerberusalert]

It may be worthwhile sending the Co-op a SAR too as it should show what has been occuring with these a/cs + it may throw up some further evidence for you to use.

[S**Tstreet]

Thanks for the response cerberusalert, much appreciated. The FSA don't deal with individual cases, with information relayed to them from the FO. This also applies to OFT, where you advise them of the case but they gather all the info against the financial institution rather than dealing with an individual case

 

I've discussed with CAB making a further SAR, who have advised to hold back for the moment, because the Cooperative Bank have only provided one balance to them instead of the two requested. They are going to dispute all four accounts.

 

I am deeply depressed by it all....

 

Anyway if anyone can advise on the questions regarding charges after default.... I'd greatly appreciate this. Many thanks

[S**Tstreet]

I've just been issued with a THIRD default notice for the same account advising me that the will terminate the account a THIRD TIME!!

 

Is this legal?

[citizenB]

If they have already terminated the account, then I am not sure why or if they can issue a further Default Notice. Can you confirm that they had already terminated this account prior to issuing a further Default Notice.

 

It is my understanding that they can issue as many default notices as they like up to the time of termination (usually cos they have mucked them up).

 

It was also my understanding, that once the account was terminated, then no more interest was added.. simply because there is no account to add interest to!!

 

I would think almost certainly the fact that you had so many agencies, police, CAB, etc involved at the time, then the Co-op are a bit stupid to deny there was a dispute.. It is patently obvious there was one and your extensive paper trail could well be their downfall.

[S**Tstreet]

Thanks CitizenB,

 

Yes I can confirm that the account has been terminated twice and that there are documents to prove this.... they are quoting the Consumer Credit Act in issuing each default/termination. Is there any Act that clearly states that they are not allowed to do this?

 

CAB are not going to query this aspect because they are disputing the whole amount so that fact that it's increasing is not regarded as an issue to be addressed. However I've asked them to include in the complaint that I'm being harrassed by receiving these default/ termination notices. CAB are mystified that so many default/termination notices have been issued and their opinion is that the Cooperative Bank departments are not communicating with each other. CAB asked them verbally to suspend the account, and yet they have charged interest during this period and issued a third default notice.

 

Anyway that's the detail... I would just like to know where I stand in Law regarding these termination notices, for my own peace of mind please.

 

Thanks

[citizenB]

I will try and find out for you.

 

Have sent a message to someone who might know

[S**Tstreet]

Thank you so much CitizenB xx

[citizenB]

Correct, they can issue as many DNs as they wish but only terminate once (providing the DN is correct and accurate and valid)

If the DNs were faulty in any respect then any Termination is invalid also.CCA2006.

 

Regards

 

Andy

 

 

Here you go.. reply to S.O.S. already.. thank you andyorch.

 

So if there were issues with the original default notices that made them invalid, then it also made the termination invalid..

 

It looks like they are attempting to get it right by issuing the newer Dns and Tns..

 

 

[S**Tstreet]

Thanks CitizenB .... if there were issues with the original DN/T then I don't know what these are.... the first set were issued over a year ago with the 2nd a few months later, and the 3rd yesterday.

 

Are they likely to have decided themselves that there was a problem with these termination Notices?

 

I have never disputed them, and always centred my complaint on the fraud. It is horrifying having received a 3rd default notice (with coming 3rd termination) and to see that the amount has increased over £2,000 during the period between the last issue. They never advised me that they would continue to charge late payment fees and over limit charges after the 2nd DN/T nor did they send any statements, and the amounts have not changed on my credit reports since the first DN/T. I am shocked and horrified and frightened too, that no matter what anyone does they just will continue to harrass me and the amount they believe owed increase.....

[citizenB]

Thanks CitizenB .... if there were issues with the original DN/T then I don't know what these are.... the first set were issued over a year ago with the 2nd a few months later, and the 3rd yesterday.

 

Are they likely to have decided themselves that there was a problem with these termination Notices?

 

I have never disputed them, and always centred my complaint on the fraud. It is horrifying having received a 3rd default notice (with coming 3rd termination) and to see that the amount has increased over £2,000 during the period between the last issue. They never advised me that they would continue to charge late payment fees and over limit charges after the 2nd DN/T nor did they send any statements, and the amounts have not changed on my credit reports since the first DN/T. I am shocked and horrified and frightened too, that no matter what anyone does they just will continue to harrass me and the amount they believe owed increase.....

 

 

Some issues that could make the DNs invalid are:

 

Not allowing a full 14 days for remedy of breach. The regulations are quite clear on this.. Some creditors however, didnt allow for posting.. eg 2 working days for 1st class and 4 working days for 2nd class or UK mail services.

 

If the DN wasnt issued correctly under s87(1) of the CCA 1974 act

 

If the amount demanded was the full balance and not just the arrears that were due.

 

If the amount demanded contained a high proportion of default fees, that too could make it invalid.

 

If they claimed you had breached the agreement with them and stated a clause that is either not present on your agreement or you couldnt possibly have breached in any event, that can make it invalid.

 

They are supposed to enclose a leaflet from the OFT.. someone else will have to explain that one as I dont understand it.

 

There is supposed to be a statement on the DN, I think detailing what you can do in the event that you are unable to remedy the breach.. again, I dont understand that one and it will be for others to explain or confirm.

 

To be honest, it is very difficult to take a "stab" at guessing..

[citizenB]

They MUST by law send you a statement of Default at least once a year. They are not allowed to charge interest on default sums for 30 days and the statement must advise you of this.

 

Did you ever receive a Statement of Default ?

 

As to your other question.. yes, it is likely they realised the Dn was incorrect.. especially as the Co-op were quite consistent in issuing what were known as "dodgy default notices" . However, it looks as though they kind of messed up more than once in your situation!

[S**Tstreet]

Thanks CitizenB, what you've written is very useful, I will check the DN/T and see if I can see what's wrong with them.

 

Can't believe though that it's taken them over year to find the last fault whatever that might be, and to keep charging is incredible.... but what you've said has been really helpful, and please also thank Andyorch too for such a quick response, I very much appreciate your help.

[S**Tstreet]

CitizenB I have never received a default statement from the Cooperative Bank, nor anything about not charging interest for 30 days.

 

I can't see what's wrong with the default notices issued, so I'm totally baffled.

 

I'm assuming from your reply, that the Cooperative bank are allowed to charge interest after 30 days?

 

The other thing is that they have been charging more than interest. They've been charging late payment and over credit fees each month, against which they've been charging every increasing interest. Surely if an account is terminated, they are only permitted to charge interest.

 

Also there is a complication, in that when logging onto their online banking, the statements for this account only go back to April this year, previous to that they have all disappeared, and I have never been notified either of their intention to charge interest, nor of what they have charged.

[citizenB]

Have a trundle round the onlikne banking site and see if there is an archive for previous statements.

 

I am not saying that they CAN charge interest after 30 days.. what I am saying is they CANNOT charge interest on default sums FOR 30 days.

 

It is my understanding that once an account has been terminated, then interest isnt charged, because technically there is no account to charge interest on !

 

I have attached a pdf produced by andyorch which gives more information on the "Sum in arrears" statements that you should have been receiving..

 

[ATTACH=CONFIG]30047[/ATTACH]

[S**Tstreet]

Thanks CitizenB

 

I've read Andorch's pdf and think I understand it....

 

I've checked their online banking system and there are definately no archives. Of the two default debts, one has completely disappeared the other has had enormous amounts of charges and interest added to it. At first I thought perhaps they have combined the two without telling me... but this hasn't happened, as calculating the interest from April this year, it seems that they have been charging it since april 2010.

 

The other thing is that this increase in one default is not reflected in my credit report. I am now in an awful position of not knowing what my financial position is with the Cooperative Bank and neither do CAB. They requested amounts outstanding for both defaults and only got one. They are nonetheless going to challenge both defaults, plus the other two accounts (which are currently being paid by ex) because there is fraud on all four, that relates to forged signatures on loans, as well as Amex who have already admitted fraud, and provided evidence of cooperative bank cheques that were used to pay them.

 

It's now almost 3 years that I have been disputing these accounts with the Cooperative Bank, they know that I'm disabled, but this has just made matters worse for me, as their behaviour has become more outlandish.

 

They have charged intersts and charges against the two defaults during the period of dispute, but this will not be addressed by CAB who are simply challenging the whole amount. I have correspondence from the FOS that confirms that the Cooperative Bank as a matter of Policy destroy all original loan documents, which is why the police could not proceed with prosecution of my ex because of lack of forensic analysi.

 

I need this nightmare to end......