HSBC no CCA

[citizenB]

Cheers both.

 

Cit B, not able to click on the link for some reason. Downloaded the pdf ta.

 

Try the link now - I couldn't open the original either !!

[citizenB]

'True copies of any s87 (1) Default Notices or Enforcement Notices that you hold that supports any adverse Default related Data that you have ever published, and confirmation that appropriate steps were made to confirm that a valid Data Consent existed in relation to such adverse Data such as, for example, confirmation that an enforceable and properly executed Regulated Credit Agreement was made, one that also included the necessary Data Consent.'

 

Interesting section. This is my reason for the SAR, HSBC no CCA ever existed but still trading my data & now refusing to correspond with me

 

Have you got a thread on this ? It is true that HSBC did indeed fail to obtain any agreements at all around 1995 - 2000 . They sent the credit cards out with the debit cards when a current account was opened.

[spartathisis]

Works thanks. Think the long one looks the better option, doesn't look to be any 'wiggle' room for them

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?312177-HSBC-no-CCA/page9

 

 

I had read that, but I can remeber being asked in the branch if I was interested in a Access card all they did was ask me to sign a form to check my signature and it came through the post. That was in the late 80's.

 

At the time they state I took the card I had been unemployed for 9 months & my mortgage was being paid by the DSS, it was with HSBC. Really don't think they would have approved me.

[citizenB]

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I have made a considerable number of subject access requests to CRAs on behalf of others over the years and so far the data provided has been that data supplied by the data subject, and the details of entries made by others, searches made and copies of any correspondence between data subject and the CRA.

[spartathisis]

Thanks, it just helps to give more depth to the wider picture under which they operate.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It will be interesting to see if there is anything unusual.

[spartathisis]

Hi sent a SAR to main reference agencies and today received a reply from Experian stating that they cannot comply until I provide:

 

2 original documents dated within last 3 months (utility, sols letter) that link me to my address

A copy of Birth certificate, D. Licence or Passport

 

Do I have to supply this info?

 

They have returned the postal order and said it is to prevent any unauthorised access to my data. Info is to come to the address on their records and where they have written to.

 

Thanks

[silverfox1961]

Hi

I'm afraid they can. CRAs are notoriously strict on ensuring only the data subject can get their data.

 

If you don't agree to their demands. you are highly unlikely to get anywhere with them.

 

A pain, I know but it protects them AND you.

[dx100uk]

can I ask why you are sending an SAR to a CRA provider?

 

dx

[dx100uk]

old and new threads merged

 

I've also merged in the HSBC thread

as this is the route cause of this sar.

 

please keep to one thread per issue/debt

 

dx

[spartathisis]

I wanted to know exactly what they held, not just the limited one for £2 you can get.

 

I used the template here on CAG.

 

Not specifically the HSBC thread as it relates to information required to obtain a SAR to a CRA. Hence posting in CRA forum.

 

Does anything I provide then get posted to my credit file for others to view?

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

The Data you see on your CRA file is All that they hold.

Any thing you provide will not go on your credit file.

The only problem is any previous undisclosed addresses or aliases.

Which may need to be updated to ensure that the data they publish

is up to date and accurate.

[spartathisis]

So not heard from HSBC since October, actually CSL debt collectors, and now Moorcroft have made contact.

 

Standard letter sent informing of no contract etc, etc and don't contact me again stuff.

 

So it starts again.

[spartathisis]

So HSBC sold the alleged debt to 1st Credit sometime in April and now have them demanding money.

 

After a number of exchanges the stated they will contact HSBC for a copy of the original contract (good luck with hat one). I issued a Section 10 to stop them processing my info, sure they will continue, but...

 

The head of collections gave an example from the ICO on why they could process my data, but did not like it pointing out to her that the example stated a signed contract must exist for data to be processed.

 

She was clueless to what you can and cannot do with data (referenced links and passages from the ICO to confirm), turns out it is my opinion only.

 

So 36 days on still not heard anything (21 days for S10 reply from them according to ICO).

[spartathisis]

Advice please.

 

1st Credit have written back stating that they have 'reassigned' the account back to HSBC and they are again the 'legal owner' of the account.

 

No agreement, of course, so how can it keep being assigned/reassigned?

 

 

What steps can I now take to have any mention taken off my credit file?

 

I never signed an agreement (in bank and was offered CC in late 80's),

 

 

HSBC stated no record of agreement,

 

 

1st Credit clearly believe no agreement,

threats of legal action but none materialised.

 

 

CRA's processing my data when no permission from me has ever been obtained.

 

 

If I point this out to them will they have to confirm I have given my permission from HSBC,

if HSBC state yes, but cannot prove it have I a case for ICO to take action.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Advice please.

 

1st Credit have written back stating that they have 'reassigned' the account back to HSBC and they are again the 'legal owner' of the account.

 

No agreement, of course, so how can it keep being assigned/reassigned? What steps can I now take to have any mention taken off my credit file?

 

I never signed an agreement (in bank and was offered CC in late 80's), HSBC stated no record of agreement, 1st Credit clearly believe no agreement, threats of legal action but none materialised. CRA's processing my data when no permission from me has ever been obtained. If I point this out to them will they have to confirm I have given my permission from HSBC, if HSBC state yes, but cannot prove it have I a case for ICO to take action.

 

 

 

 

It's been handed back because the purchaser/DCA cannot earn from it.

 

 

It matters not in the there is no agreement, the debt is sold with the absolute minimum of data.

The lack of an agreement does not mean there is no debt, credit facility made available and used, can prove the account exists, enforceability is the problem.

Age of debt: 6 years no payment or written acknowledgment so Stat Barred.??

 

 

There obviously was an agreement at the inception of the account otherwise no credit facility would have been provided and used .

 

 

What is the default date on this debt?

[spartathisis]

I went into the bank (Midland at the time) and was offered a CC, all I had to do was prove my signature and card came through the post later.

So 'obviously' there was no agreement.

 

An account existing does not make an agreement.

 

 

They cannot prove acceptance of any T & C's, including processing my data, sale of any alleged debt etc.

 

How can they prove that the outstanding balance was not a gift from them?

 

 

That they promised me that I would earn interest of 20% on anything I owed them?

 

 

Without an agreement it matters not a jot, or so a District Judge told me last week in court at my Divorce Final Hearing

(debt discussed as it was incurred during the marriage).

 

2 years to SB. Default date was earlier than the notified by many months.

 

They are reporting to CRA's with no permission.

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I went into the bank (Midland at the time) and was offered a CC, all I had to do was prove my signature and card came through the post later. So 'obviously' there was no agreement.

 

An account existing does not make an agreement. They cannot prove acceptance of any T & C's, including processing my data, sale of any alleged debt etc.

 

How can they prove that the outstanding balance was not a gift from them? That they promised me that I would earn interest of 20% on anything I owed them? Without an agreement it matters not a jot, or so a District Judge told me last week in court at my Divorce Final Hearing (debt discussed as it was incurred during the marriage).

 

2 years to SB. Default date was earlier than the notified by many months.

 

They are reporting to CRA's with no permission.

 

 

You proved your ID and got a card?? So why is there no agreement?

 

 

There is a debt that You incurred yes or No?

[goodatresearch]

Same happened to me with Midland Bank, given CC but no agreement signed and yes, although it can be a judge lottery, the existence of an account doesn't actually mean that a compliant agreement was ever signed.

 

There was a case reported on another forum where a defendant produced a letter from a bank which clearly stated an account was being closed and a new account was opened for them and here's the card. Not an upgrade but a new account.No mention of a new agreement being signed at all.

 

Unfortunately I don't believe your argument that CRAs can't process data because you haven't agreed via an agreement will hold water. Although I do understand and sympathise with your argument.

 

I went into the bank (Midland at the time) and was offered a CC, all I had to do was prove my signature and card came through the post later.

So 'obviously' there was no agreement.

 

An account existing does not make an agreement.

 

 

They cannot prove acceptance of any T & C's, including processing my data, sale of any alleged debt etc.

 

How can they prove that the outstanding balance was not a gift from them?

 

 

That they promised me that I would earn interest of 20% on anything I owed them?

 

 

Without an agreement it matters not a jot, or so a District Judge told me last week in court at my Divorce Final Hearing

(debt discussed as it was incurred during the marriage).

 

2 years to SB. Default date was earlier than the notified by many months.

 

They are reporting to CRA's with no permission.

[spartathisis]

The question of CC provided with no agreement is one to ask Midland Bank. Not sure why you are surprised, I have read on other forums of folk in the same position.

 

My current account was with Midland and I went in to withdraw some cash and was then asked if i wanted a CC.

 

With no CCA I am not sure whether I did or not, no one stated I had to repay anything, I did but with nothing to say I should have some may argue Unjust Enrichment on their part.

[spartathisis]

To process data the data subject must have given permission:

 

The Data Protection Act 1998 (with amendments)

 

Schedule 2

1 The data subject has given his consent to the processing.

2 The processing is necessary—

(a) for the performance of a contract to which the data subject is a party, or

 

(b) for the taking of steps at the request of the data subject with a view to entering into a contract.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1998/29/schedule/2

 

The CRA's surely must confirm permission from the 'lender' if it is brought to their attention, if the 'lender' states permission was obtained then proof must be given?

[spartathisis]

Bump

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

Bump

The CRAs have to rely on the accuracy of the data supplied by their subscribing client be they original creditors/DCAs or debt purchasers.

Any queries on what is submitted to the CRAs should be taken up with the Data Controller of the original creditor, a debt purchaser or DCA will be reporting on data passed to them by the OC.

[spartathisis]

The whole point is that the CRA's are processing data without explicit permission. When a contract is signed there are

conditions on third party data processors i.e. CRA's, but with no contract & no permission they are breaking the DPA 1998.

 

HSBC insist they have permission, but cannot even state correctly when a card was given, so I still fail to understand how either HSBC or the CRA's can get away with processing my data.

They are complicit in illegal data processing, without permission that is what it is, and are in effect damaging my 'good name'. Tongue firmly in cheek there

 

I have informed 1st Credit I will be reporting them to the ICO for processing my data illegally and intend writing to each of the CRA's too.

HSBC have been contacted in the past on a number of occasions and they have never replied to a S10 notice, perhaps a more strongly worded notice may achieve more.

 

I am thinking Kpohraror v Woolwich BS & Durkin v HFC/PC World with regard to damage to credit etc.