Penalty Fare Fine due to invalid ticket

[TiffTiff12]

On the 9th June I had to attend an interview for a job in Colchester. I made my journey from Grays and decided to buy a travelcard as I thought this would cover my journey. I was wrong, as I boarded the train an inspector informed me that the ticket I had was not valid for the journey, instead of making me pay the excess he gave me a penalty fare. As I was not able to get home from Colchester (the inspector informed me I had the wrong ticket so there was no chance of getting home) I was forced to cancel the interview and went home from Harold Wood (and NOT Colchester as the penalty fare suggests).

 

According to the Penalty Fare Rules

“If a passenger travels on a train on which their ticket is not valid, it is more likely that the restrictions were not properly explained to them than that they are deliberately trying to avoid paying the right fare. We believe that it is up to the train operators to make sure that each passenger understands the restrictions which apply to the ticket which they are sold. Under rule 7, a passenger may not be charged a penalty fare if he or she has a ticket for the journey which they are making that is not valid on that train only because of a ticket restriction. In these cases, the passenger only needs to pay the excess fare, in line with the National Rail Conditions of Carriage.”

Wouldnt this mean that i only have to pay the excess and not recieve an actual penalty fare?

I have appealed twice and IAS have ignored the fact that I had didn't even realise that my ticket was not valid for that particular train. They have also ignored the fact that I didn't go to Colchester (I have proof- Had to phone the NHS, explain and cancel the interview).

I would really appreciate any advice anyone could give me on the matter.

[rebel11]

Hi tiff

 

Welcome to CAG

 

The guys will be happy to advise as soon as they are available.

[SRPO]

Your ticket was not 'restricted', it was not valid for the journey you were making.

It is not for the TOC to explain to a passenger who asks for a travelcard where that travelcard is & is not valid to, if you had told the sales agent where you were travelling to they would have sold you the cheapest available ticket.

 

Personally I dont think you have an argument.

[RPI]

Quite right SRPO, this is not an advertised restriction but simply in-valid ticket, a certain amount of responability lies with the customer.

Once found somebody at Westbury with a travelcard claiming that they didnt know that zone 6 ended somewhere between Slough and Paddington!

[andydd]

I am a bit puzzled as to how someone can think a travelcard is valid for Colchester too.......Travelcards are for the London area (zones 1-6) and not Colchester or anywhere near.However, its not clear at what stop the ticket was inspected, surely the ticket would be valid from (I think), Grays to Shenfield (or Harold Wood) ?Andy

[honeybee13]

Hello andy, I'm confused too.

 

For the uninformed [like myself], I found this on wikipedia explaining all the stations in the zone. I noticed Harold Wood, but I'm not sure I saw Grays.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_in_London_fare_zone_6

 

My best, HB

[andydd]

Hello andy, I'm confused too.

 

For the uninformed [like myself], I found this on wikipedia explaining all the stations in the zone. I noticed Harold Wood, but I'm not sure I saw Grays.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_stations_in_London_fare_zone_6

 

My best, HB

 

Grays is on the c2c branch line from Shoeburness/Southend to London, it didnt used to be in the travelcard zone at all, then they introduced the osytser extension permit thingie but now I believe it has changed, not sure what 'zone' it is in now, if at all, clearly buying a travelcard would enable you to travel to any of the TFL london zones, but Colchester is miles away towards North Essex, its obvious to me that its not (and never would be) included in one of the TFL Zones.But what I find strange is that the poster implies his tyicket was inspected straight away and issued a penalty charge, but surely if it was inspected straight away it would of been valid ?..surely it would only have been invalid when (if) the poster was on the shenfield to colchester train (which was I assume the way he would of gone).Perhaps it needs clarifying the route he intended to travel, I believe it would of been Grays - Romford - Upminster - Shenfield - Colchester ?Andy

[honeybee13]

Hi Andy. From memory, about half those stations are on the list, although I haven't checked.

 

OP, if you can post more information please, I think it would help.

 

My best, HB

[The Urbanite]

A Grays - London Zones 1-6 Travelcard is not valid for travel to Colchester and to my knowledge, there is no publicity to suggest otherwise. This ticket would be valid up to the Zone 6 boundary on the Great Eastern line - a Boundary Zone 6 (NOT Harold Wood) to Colchester extension ticket would have been required in order for the OP to be covered. Travelling overdistance is quite clearly prohibited in Penalty Fare zones.

 

Grays in not in any Travelvard Zone - it is outside London. Oyster PAYG is in use there and special fares apply when travelling to/from there using Oyster PAYG.

.

What I don't get, is why the OP was PF'd. If I'm reading correctly, the OP was stopped on a train at some point between Liverpool Street and Harold Wood and advised to disembark at the latter. If this is true then the OP was never out of their area of validity.

 

Can we have the full story OP?

Edited July 7, 2011 by The Urbanite

[SRPO]

Use the M25 as a rough guide to where you can travel on a travelcard, if going outside it - check.

[andydd]

.

What I don't get, is why the OP was PF'd. If I'm reading correctly, the OP was stopped on a train at some point between Liverpool Street and Harold Wood and advised to disembark at the latter. If this is true then the OP was never out of their area of validity.

 

Can we have the full story OP?

 

Yes, thats how I read it (and you explained it far more clearly than my post ), it appears his ticket would of become invalid had he travelled onto his destination, but was valid at the time of checking, and he says he never went to the destination anyway, so its a mystery as to why he recived a penalty charge.

 

Andy