Ingeus

[Charlotte_Henderson]

Good luck with that!

I was wrongfully mandated to the WP (Seetec) nearly two years ago and despite Seetec being read the riot act by JCP, the DWP and my MP they are still sending me MAN letters.

 

No amount of complaint official or otherwise has any effect.

 

I have a written assurance from one of Seetec's directors that I won't be bothered again, this was issued in March this year, since then I've had three MAN letters, nothing gets through to these people.

 

Beyond a joke!

[essexmat]

It doesn't surprise me in any way - these [edited] are in a world of their own. Should I continue to get MANs through the post I will not have any hesitation in going directly to the office and making a scene in front of everyone whilst recording it. In addition to this I will also be contacting my MP about harrassment of one of his constituents who is on sick leave. Let's see how far they want to push me - I can fight, and if I have to I will win and shame them in the process

Edited August 12, 2014 by honeybee13
Pejorative term.

[Belfaster]

Osdset is absolutely spot on. Seetec are a law unto themselves, no letters, verbal interaction or threats deter these [edited]. I am so glad I no longer have to deal with them!

Edited August 12, 2014 by honeybee13
Pejorative terms.

[essexmat]

Well they should not be a law unto themselves - there is clear guidance on WPs and how they can treat and deal with clients. If you are sick they cannot MAN you for anything, problem is, they do, only way to fight this harrassment is to formally complain and MAKE IT CLEAR any further correspondence re MANs will be dealt with at the very top level including government and local MP

[honeybee13]

I've edited a couple of posts above. Can we keep it civil please and refrain from using abusive terms. I would also mention not for the first time, about site rules on iinsulting someone for doing their job.

 

HB

[osdset]

Well they should not be a law unto themselves - there is clear guidance on WPs and how they can treat and deal with clients. If you are sick they cannot MAN you for anything, problem is, they do, only way to fight this harrassment is to formally complain and MAKE IT CLEAR any further correspondence re MANs will be dealt with at the very top level including government and local MP

 

Make it clear? Trust me, no one has made it clearer. I'm currently reviewing a letter forwarded to me by my MP from The Operations Correspondence Unit at the DWP, the author goes considerably round the houses with a semi apology for the whole two year charade, he added that should I remain unhappy with the 'service' I've received from Seetec, I can avail myself of the strengthened complaints process that was ( who knows when) introduced for the Work Programme.

 

The problem is no one, I repeat no one has a scooby as to what this process is, how to initiate it, and what outcome there may be, the DWP tell me to complain to the provider under this procedure, the provider reckons they have never heard of it. My MP is confused with the whole affair because she gets conflicting stories from JCP the DWP and Seetec.

 

I've now decided that either Seetec are incompetent in the extreme, or they are simply engaging in malicious harassment, there can be no grey area between the two.

[Mr.P]

I suspect they are referring to the complaint process set out in the Work Programme Provider Guidance, Chapter 16. In a nutshell, the last level of the (official) process is to refer the complaint to the Independent Case Examiner which will cost the provider up to £5,000 if the complaint is upheld. The ICE also has the powers to order payment of compensation and impose additional sanctions against the provider in question.

 

Should you remain dissatisfied with the ICE, you have the final option of asking your MP to refer the case to the Parliamentary and Health Service Ombudsman.

 

The final two stages of the complaints process was introduced in to the Work Programme contracts in an attempt to provide a more robust resolution system compared to the previous Flexible New Deal scheme.

[osdset]

The main stumbling block with taking a complaint to the ICE is getting Seetec to issue a final response that explains that you can take your case to the ICE if you’re not satisfied with their decision.

 

Seetec have been careful not to issue me with a final response, Seetec's operational director knows full well that I'm trying to steer the complaint in that direction.

 

I'm fairly sure he thinks I'll eventually give up hitting my head against the wall if he obfuscates for long enough, he's wrong.

[essexmat]

The main focus IS NOT TO GIVE UP. I have been through many complainst processes with various companies and they rely on you getting fed up so you drop the claim/grievance - you MUST NOT give up and have to keep going with everything tracked and audited from phone calls to letters to verbal communications.

 

On the flip side, some of you have been following my posts about my adviser at INGEUS - some have said I am stalking whilst others agree that as she has a public profile it is clear to see openly what she is saying. Today's offering is:

 

"Crappiest day at work ever!!! Makes me die, oh I can't work cause of problems with my knees and back, also my partner is pregnant!....... Yeah your back and knees must be really bad?! Had to be on the week I gave up carbs and alcohol"

 

Presumably she knows each persons individual case and medical condition? I am leaning more towards making a complaint against her now as people need to know she is belittling clients

[honeybee13]

I thought you were going to stop looking at her FB page, essexmat.

 

It just seems to wind you up, is it worth it?

 

HB

[essexmat]

"is it worth it?" Well I may be on ESA and not having to attend INGEUS at the moment but if I can help others from being belittled and treated like dirt when most are genuine people who are simply going through a bad patch then yes, it is worth it - also, do I want to see her again when off of ESA (hopefully) and back on JSA? If we all stood back and done nothing then they win. Ihate getting people in to trouble but she is in a position of trust with clients and it is evident she couldn't give a toss so maybe she would like a formal warning about her conduct or at worse find herself sitting on the other side of the desk?

[jasta11]

I don't see it as 'stalking' at all; I see it as a concerned customer who has seen a WP clerk belittling the very people she's supposed to be helping. It doesn't matter how or in what format she's doing it; she's doing it and doing it in public to her friends and God knows who else. Her personal thoughts about the customers are hers but they're not to be made public like that.

 

I'd be compiling a detailed dossier of every wonderful comment she makes, with dates, and send it to her boss, her head office, the DWP and the news media. We really don't need people like her 'helping' us.

 

More power to you, Matt!

[fletch70]

It is difficult. On one side she is not posting identifiable details but on the other side she is posting publicly comments best kept private. Are you sure she isn't related to IDS. Btw there is a fantastic post on FB from a question time program.

I think i also have a slightly different perspective in that as an ESA recipient I was lumped in with some if the more challenging customers. It has to be said, some, although not many were playing the system. The worst cases were kept to one on ones so as not to drag down the more enthusiastic.

[WeeViv]

Hi folks !! I am new here.

 

Basically, I am approaching the end of the work programme, and about to return to the job centre.

 

On Tuesday, a telephone call was made to my mobile by Ingeus. However, the number showed up as "unknown", and I did not pick it up.

 

Half an hour later, my adviser rang my mobile with a message to have my mobile switched on as an adviser from another office was about to start a few people working in Glasgow. I am assuming I would have had to go to Glasgow that day.

 

The tone of the voicemail was rather threatening. This adviser does NOT like me because I reported him to the Manager for doing so little for me. I also asked for another adviser (I did not get one).

 

I heard no further word from the Glasgow branch, and rang them in the end, left a message and nobody called me back?

 

My adviser also made no further telephone calls.

 

I feel this was incorrectly handled. Surely my adviser should have rang (or e-mailed me) to tell me there was a job on. On the voicemail, he also stated he did not know what the job was for?!

 

HELP !!!!

 

It has actually been two years of Hell with these people, I have zero cancelled appointments, but they basically did nothing for me in all of this time.

 

I have a feeling this Company are about to be put out of action. The job centre have a new "recommended jobs" system for Clients, so where is the need for this Company any longer?

Edited August 14, 2014 by WeeViv

[jasta11]

Hello WeeViv and welcome to the forums

 

We've ALL found Ingeus to be totally useless, so you're definitely not alone in that. You don't say how long you have left but grit your teeth and once you've done your 2-year sentence then tell them very firmly that you don't want to ever hear from them again and you'l ltreat any attempts to contact you as harrassment. They have no more power over you once you're not officially on their books - though they'll no doubt still see you as a possible source of income should you get a job later and they can claim they got it for you.

 

You can insist all contact in the meantime comes from either letter or email. I'd want it in writing anyway, in case they try to pull any tricks with you about non-attendence, etc. Always cover yourself with these people!

[WeeViv]

Thanks so much !! I am re-referred to JCP around Sept 9th (?).

 

I asked my adviser if my next appointment would be my last. He said he did not know, which I don't believe !!!

 

Yes. They really are a joke.

[jasta11]

Ingeus always seem to have a problem knowing when people are leaving - even though they'll have the paperwork and know full well when a person joined the course. Your best bet is to ask your JC adviser next time you sign on, and they should be able to give you the date you're due to leave Ingeus.

 

No doubt Ingeus will argue it and have something totally different on their records, but the DWP take precedence and what they say goes.

 

Also make sure you ask for - and receive - your Exit Report from Ingeus. This report form goes back to the Jobcentre and it's your right to have a copy to see what they've written about you. Usually it's just something like 'client is work ready' (which is what I got on mine). Totally pointless but you still want a copy of it. You may have to ask/threaten to get it but make sure you do. I don't trust what any Work Provider would write behind my back.

[Mr.P]

Half an hour later, my adviser rang my mobile with a message to have my mobile switched on as an adviser from another office was about to start a few people working in Glasgow. I am assuming I would have had to go to Glasgow that day.

 

You can not be mandated to "have your phone on" or "accept a call from " by way of voice message, email, or text. All Mandatory Activity Notices must be in writing and either handed to you or sent by post and timed to arrive in good time. This is clearly set out in the DWP issued provider guidance which any WP clerk should be aware of.

 

If you want to answer any calls from an unknown number, that is your choice - I for one give Glaswegian callers a right ear full (anonymous call centres touting solar panels).

 

Also make sure you ask for - and receive - your Exit Report from Ingeus.

 

Do not "ask". Demand a copy. Once you have left the building, submit a Subject Access Request via the DWP and insist that all information held by Ingeus is provided forthwith. Don't be afraid to hold the DWP data controller to account if any documents are missing or you feel the file is incomplete.

[WeeViv]

Brill !! Thanks !!

 

I am off to enjoy my day now thanks to you two !!!

 

They create such fear among people they should not be allowed to operate.

[osdset]

An update on my Seetec adventures.

 

So I attend today at 4 pm and go through the usual spiel with the receptionist

 

Receptionist 'oh just sign the register and take a seat Mr Osdset and someone will be with you shortly'

 

Me 'I'm not here to engage with anyone, I'm here to find out why I keep getting MAN letters when I'm not on your programme. And before you ask me to do anything else please read this' (I show her the letter dated March this year from Seetec's operational director which says I'm not to be bothered again).

 

Receptionist 'oh dear, ahh, erm, well I don't quite know what to do here (she looks furtively at the glass walled office in front of her), um, the manager is in a meeting at the moment'.

 

Me 'that's OK I'll wait'

 

Receptionist 'Oh look she's just come out, I'll call her over'

 

Rather fetching suntanned young lady sashays over to the desk and takes over, reads my paperwork and immediately starts bashing the keyboard.

 

Manager 'Ah Mr Osdset it seems that whilst there are copious notes on the system stating do not contact this claimant again, no one has actually taken this on board, what I'll now do is remove your contact details from the system so that when the next letter gets generated we have nowhere to send it to, and we can't phone you about it!'

 

I am now trying really hard to stifle my amusement, but fail, I'm fumbling around for my glasses so I can read the screen that miss lovely has swiveled in my direction to prove she's removed my details.

 

Once I regained my composure I casually ask what had happened to the previous manager ( a really nasty piece of work) 'oh he's been promoted to head office' reply's the manager (whom I'm now almost in love with) yes she is that stunning.

 

I'm frankly gobsmacked at this news as this barsteward deserves the dole queue more than anyone I know, however I'm guessing that his jackboot attitude to claimants actually makes Seetec money, so they regard him as an asset.

 

I reluctantly say farewell to the bronzed beauty, and take my leave.

 

Now to badger Seetec's upper echelon for a final response so I can move this charade onto the ICE's desk.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

I've edited a couple of posts above. Can we keep it civil please and refrain from using abusive terms. I would also mention not for the first time, about site rules on iinsulting someone for doing their job.

 

HB

Of course, no-one should be criticised for simply doing their job. A job, is a job, is a job...even if simply one stage above slime in the Welfare To Work Sector.....conversely, Welfare To Work Clerks who otherwise eschew the mannerisms of Jobsworths, and set to make lives of candidates difficult, are simply fair game.

[honeybee13]

Of course, no-one should be criticised for simply doing their job. A job, is a job, is a job...even if simply one stage above slime in the Welfare To Work Sector.....conversely, Welfare To Work Clerks who otherwise eschew the mannerisms of Jobsworths, and set to make lives of candidates difficult, are simply fair game.

 

Rebecca, I don't know why 'avoiding the habitual gestures or ways of speaking or behaving of jobsworths' would make someone fair game.

 

Just to repeat, CAG does not condone criticising someone for doing their job, please don't do this.

 

HB

[Mr.P]

Now to badger Seetec's upper echelon for a final response so I can move this charade onto the ICE's desk.

 

If this new manager appears to be more cooperative, why not approach her for a "final response" - She may just be daft enough to comply, then you have all the pieces in place to go to the next stage.

[fletch70]

Of course, no-one should be criticised for simply doing their job. A job, is a job, is a job...even if simply one stage above slime in the Welfare To Work Sector.....conversely, Welfare To Work Clerks who otherwise eschew the mannerisms of Jobsworths, and set to make lives of candidates difficult, are simply fair game.

I think that is grossly unfair. You are dismissing people for doing a job and making them out to be slime. They have a job which i suspect most do with little training to the best of their ability. I know that in my area they are only trained in the areas they deal in so may well not understand ESA for example.

Please also remember that the pressure and sh1t flows downhill from the shareholders who like as not are your pension scheme if you are lucky enough to have one.

[osdset]

I think that is grossly unfair. You are dismissing people for doing a job and making them out to be slime. They have a job which i suspect most do with little training to the best of their ability. I know that in my area they are only trained in the areas they deal in so may well not understand ESA for example.

Please also remember that the pressure and sh1t flows downhill from the shareholders who like as not are your pension scheme if you are lucky enough to have one.

 

Hmm, lets not have too much sympathy for those that work in the WP sector. I'm sure some start off with good intent but anyone with half a brain soon realises the implications of what they are being asked to do.

 

With regard to ESA, in my experience no one from the top down in the WP sector understands the difference between the two claimant groups they deal with, everyone is a job seeker, sick or not.