Ingeus

[jasta11]

Whilst with Ingeus, did any Clerk make any effort in approaching any employer on your behalf, and did any face to face interview ensue? Can you cite any examples of any telephone interview>?

 

Simple answer to all your questions, Rebecca, is 'no'. They only found 3 vacancies for me to apply for in the entire 2 years and it was up to me to do the applying...and one of the vacancies was an internal one to work at Ingeus! They did absolutely nothing on my behalf; I don't even think they were sending out my details to anyone.

[Paulo83]

Thanks for that Jasta11! Looks like I messed up on the attachment image as it now cannot be read! How do I change this?

 

Best of luck getting your business up and running. Hope it works out for you.

 

I think you need a minimum of 10 posts before you can add attachments. It was 10 anyway to post a URL.

[alpo287]

Does anyone know whether Ingeus make any checks with the Jobcentre about whether you are still signing on? I have been signing on for a while now but signed off from Ingeus months ago as I found work. However I only did a trial day with the job before finding out more about it and it simply didn't pay enough to live on and in some cases wasn't paying people at all. I then didn't inform Ingeus that I wasn't continuing with it as I had already signed off from them and was told I didn't need to attend any more appointments. The advisor has called me at least 5 times since then and just asks whether I am still in work. I have told him yes I am self-employed, even though I am still with the Jobcentre. I am a bit concerned that they might ask the Jobcentre am I still signing on and the Jobcentre will tell them I have been signing on for months when Ingeus thought I was in work. Anyone know what to say to them if that situation comes about?

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Does anyone know whether Ingeus make any checks with the Jobcentre about whether you are still signing on? I have been signing on for a while now but signed off from Ingeus months ago as I found work. However I only did a trial day with the job before finding out more about it and it simply didn't pay enough to live on and in some cases wasn't paying people at all. I then didn't inform Ingeus that I wasn't continuing with it as I had already signed off from them and was told I didn't need to attend any more appointments. The advisor has called me at least 5 times since then and just asks whether I am still in work. I have told him yes I am self-employed, even though I am still with the Jobcentre. I am a bit concerned that they might ask the Jobcentre am I still signing on and the Jobcentre will tell them I have been signing on for months when Ingeus thought I was in work. Anyone know what to say to them if that situation comes about?

Although Job Centre Plus invoke their rights to distribute personal data related to a candidate to any party deemed authorised (including Work Programme Providers) without requiring authorisation or permission from the candidate to do so, if you have kept Job Centre Plus in the loop and signed off (then on) after the work trial. there is no need for you to indulge any contact from Ingeus.

[Mr.P]

alpo287: Just to add to what RebeccaPidgeon has said - Be very careful what you say to Ingeus. If you have told them that you are currently self-employed and are telling the DWP that you are unemployed, just hope that the two don't talk. You'd be better off in the long term to tell Ingeus "None of your business what I'm doing" and respond to any further questions with "no comment".

At some point, Ingeus will submit an outcome claim because you have told them that you are "in work". If the DWP show due diligence and check to see if you are still claiming JSA, they will start asking questions.

 

The last thing you want is to be dragged in for an interview under caution !

[matty39]

My advisor at JC has told me to bring in my universal jobmatch ID and password because it says i unable to find any details. i have told her that i didn`t tick the box what allows them to see my account. She said thats not the reason she can`t get on. it would say you do not have permission. is she tricking me somehow. if i log on there which is what she wants me to do, will they then be able to see my account when i log on at home. Was gonna take a screen print to prove i have registered and show her that.

[jonruti]

Due to finish Work Programme October and have yet another pointless hour and a half Jobsearch at 10.30 this morning. I see my new Advisor every month at present and I am sick to the back teeth of Igneus. The last straw was a couple of months ago when my new Advisor informed me that there was no record of me taking two Employment Skills Courses, signing consent forms and completing a basic Literacy and Numeracy test. I stated that I was not sure why details had not been recorded but I was NOT retaking courses or any new ones, especially as I had not received promised certificates for either. This I suspect made an impression as on Friday 25 July I received a certificate for the level 2 course from a local college, although nothing yet for level 1. As for signing of consent, I had already done this at the start of the Work Programme, but in February of this year had withdrawn in writing (which was typically not acknowledged). I was then forced to re-take the Literacy and Numeracy Test. I should have failed this on purpose but wisely decided against this decision. The staff are polite and professional but have no qualifications in careers advice to help the clients they see. If Welfare to Work clerks cannot work as a team and coordinate basic administrative tasks then they should resign, after all there are unemployed people out there!

[RebeccaPidgeon]

My advisor at JC has told me to bring in my universal jobmatch ID and password because it says i unable to find any details. i have told her that i didn`t tick the box what allows them to see my account. She said thats not the reason she can`t get on. it would say you do not have permission. is she tricking me somehow. if i log on there which is what she wants me to do, will they then be able to see my account when i log on at home. Was gonna take a screen print to prove i have registered and show her that.

When you create a UJ Account, you explicitly agree not to divulge any information on your access details. However, the JCP Front Line Adviser may easily locate your details by bringing up the relevant search engine, entering your forename and surname, and that will bring up any number of UJ Records.

 

Of course, as much as you may wish and yearn to share your secure information with anyone, you are legally obliged not to.

 

Due to finish Work Programme October and have yet another pointless hour and a half Jobsearch at 10.30 this morning. I see my new Advisor every month at present and I am sick to the back teeth of Igneus. The last straw was a couple of months ago when my new Advisor informed me that there was no record of me taking two Employment Skills Courses, signing consent forms and completing a basic Literacy and Numeracy test. I stated that I was not sure why details had not been recorded but I was NOT retaking courses or any new ones, especially as I had not received promised certificates for either. This I suspect made an impression as on Friday 25 July I received a certificate for the level 2 course from a local college, although nothing yet for level 1. As for signing of consent, I had already done this at the start of the Work Programme, but in February of this year had withdrawn in writing (which was typically not acknowledged). I was then forced to re-take the Literacy and Numeracy Test. I should have failed this on purpose but wisely decided against this decision. The staff are polite and professional but have no qualifications in careers advice to help the clients they see. If Welfare to Work clerks cannot work as a team and coordinate basic administrative tasks then they should resign, after all there are unemployed people out there!

 

Re: Employment Skills Course, Numeracy and Literacy Tests

 

If it was clear from your history that you were Job Ready, given that the courses that you took may have been superfluous and excess to requirements, the only possible explanation for your participation was to generate a Bonus Payment to Ingeus ....let the Job Centre know, and also raise the issue of likely fraud if Ingeus try to gain monetary gain for an entirely spurious test.

Edited July 31, 2013 by RebeccaPidgeon
Additional Information Submitted

[san_d]

Does anyone know whether Ingeus make any checks with the Jobcentre about whether you are still signing on?

 

I believe senior advisers at selected Welfare to Work providers (defo Ingeus is one of 'em) have direct access to the DWP CMS, however they're told not to use it to avoid screw-ups. In theory they could raise a so called 'doubt' themselves, though this would never happen in practice.

[Bakatcha]

My advisor at JC has told me to bring in my universal jobmatch ID and password because it says i unable to find any details. i have told her that i didn`t tick the box what allows them to see my account. She said thats not the reason she can`t get on. it would say you do not have permission. is she tricking me somehow. if i log on there which is what she wants me to do, will they then be able to see my account when i log on at home. Was gonna take a screen print to prove i have registered and show her that.

Under no circumstances should you disclose your ID and password to the adviser. They are mot entitled to this information. They have the facility to search for evidence that you have an account in other ways e.g. by using name/address/NI number. Record your next interview. If adviser insists on you giving this info and/or threatens sanctions then demand to see a superior so that you can complain.

[mr_zedlister]

I am sending this e-mail anonymously as I need some advice and clarification on a current situation.

 

In Nov 2012 I was referred to a work programme called Ingeus, who were to help me get back into work. However I managed to find a job by myself and discovered that if I provided employers details to my jobcentre, that Ingeus would try and claim money for a job I got all on my own and not through them. I then looked up my data protection rights and sent ingeus a waiver that stated I would not allow them to store my information or contact me again other than in writing. On one occasion I received a phonecall asking how my job was going and in general just a phone call fishing for my employers address, even though I made it clear not to contact me other than by letter, as this would be a breach of my waiver, which was agreed in a letter I still have from then. I was in that job for almost a year and managed to get a new job that was going to last as ongoing and possibly be extended, However this never happened and I found myself unemployed again. Ingeus still have a contract with me from 2012 that finishes this year Nov 2013 and I have had to go back to Ingeus.

 

Only to discover that all my personal data/details were stored on their computer systems and had not been removed. They have given me an advisor who is trying to give me tips on finding a job, which is part of the programme, However a few weeks ago I was told that they would need my previous employers details, but also informed me that they would not be contacting them. So I asked for a request of the reason why in writing and this is the letter I received(below)

 

Recording Of Job Start Information:

 

Further to our last conversation on 11th July, you stated that you wish to understand why it is necessary for Ingeus to record any details of employment that you might undertake while participating in the work programme. Please find an explanation below.

 

Ingeus work with jobcentre Plus clients on behalf of the department for Work and Pensions in order to help them find and sustain work.Ingeus are obligated to submit details of participant employment for a number of reasons including audit and statistical purposes, as well as to claim funding to meet operating costs. The accuracy of the information submitted is paramount and we therefore need to verify these details at several points of the participants employment in order to ensure this.

 

I acknowledge that you have not previously provided consent to share information with employers and therefore this will continue to be respected and upheld. We will not contact your employer to verify details of your previous employment. This is no way affects your entitlement to participate in the work programme.

 

You have indicated that you may be willing to verify your employment details yourself, I would be grateful if you would e-mail me, to let me know whether you are still happy to do this, if so I will arrange for my colleague(verification team manager) to contact you in order to facilitate this

 

I trust that the above explanation provides the information you requested. should you require any further details please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

 

My main concerns with this are:

 

When I asked the Advisor for an explanation at the time they could not explain the reasons verbally and took several days to do so.Then put together the above letter of explanation.

 

They have been pushing for me to do this(even though it states that if I am willing to do so, and implies choice)

 

My previous waiver stated that I do not consent to them contacting me when I sign off and that I would not provide them with employment details, therefore they would not be able to claim for a job should I get one on my own.

 

I would like to know the best way to handle this situation without implications for myself i.e being sanctioned or threatened.

 

If someone could get back to me with further information that would be helpful.

 

Kind Regards

[Mr.P]

Ingeus work with jobcentre Plus clients on behalf of the department for Work and Pensions in order to help them find and sustain work.Ingeus are obligated to submit details of participant employment for a number of reasons including audit and statistical purposes, as well as to claim funding to meet operating costs. The accuracy of the information submitted is paramount and we therefore need to verify these details at several points of the participants employment in order to ensure this.

 

The accuracy of submitted data is their responsibility, not yours. If you do not wish to provide them with details of previous employment, that is your choice - Should Ingeus continue to press for the information, as on what legal basis you are obligated to provide the information.

 

A simple statement to the effect that "I was employed as a for a period of months" should suffice.

[BomBomBom]

I'm in alot of trouble with Ingeus. Oops.

 

I had surgery on 10th June and told my advisor I wouldn't be down for at least 8 weeks because that's how long the doctor said the recovery period was. What happens? I get three phonecalls on the 14th June and a text message asking how I am and if I could possibly make a mock interview thing on the 20th. I told them no and that I wouldn't be going back near their office until my 8 weeks recovery was over. I then got scheduled in for an appointment with them at the beginning of July, phoned them up and told them I wouldn't be coming down until my 8 weeks were over. They then booked me in for an appointment for the next week! At this point I was fed up of them and didn't bother phoning them up to cancel the appointment. They sent me out a letter saying my next appointment would be mandatory and if I didn't attend my benefits would be affected. They booked me in for an appointment for yesterday which again I didn't attend nor did I phone them up. Just woke up this morning to see they've booked me in for some Youth Contract session on the 1st August with the text message starting with "I Have bookd you in......this will give you an opportunit to selling yourself to employers". What a joke. And I'm supposed to take employment advice from this company who can't conduct a sentence properly?

 

I haven't been on JSA since my last payment on the 19th June and have been waiting on my ESA money coming in (I only got the form in for that last week) so what exactly can Ingeus do to affect my benefits? My sick note from the doctor that went in the ESA form confirmed I would be unable to look for work for 8 weeks and I've already told them numerous times my situation and they keep harassing me.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

I am sending this e-mail anonymously as I need some advice and clarification on a current situation.

 

In Nov 2012 I was referred to a work programme called Ingeus, who were to help me get back into work. However I managed to find a job by myself and discovered that if I provided employers details to my jobcentre, that Ingeus would try and claim money for a job I got all on my own and not through them. I then looked up my data protection rights and sent ingeus a waiver that stated I would not allow them to store my information or contact me again other than in writing. On one occasion I received a phonecall asking how my job was going and in general just a phone call fishing for my employers address, even though I made it clear not to contact me other than by letter, as this would be a breach of my waiver, which was agreed in a letter I still have from then. I was in that job for almost a year and managed to get a new job that was going to last as ongoing and possibly be extended, However this never happened and I found myself unemployed again. Ingeus still have a contract with me from 2012 that finishes this year Nov 2013 and I have had to go back to Ingeus.

 

Only to discover that all my personal data/details were stored on their computer systems and had not been removed. They have given me an advisor who is trying to give me tips on finding a job, which is part of the programme, However a few weeks ago I was told that they would need my previous employers details, but also informed me that they would not be contacting them. So I asked for a request of the reason why in writing and this is the letter I received(below)

 

Recording Of Job Start Information:

 

Further to our last conversation on 11th July, you stated that you wish to understand why it is necessary for Ingeus to record any details of employment that you might undertake while participating in the work programme. Please find an explanation below.

 

Ingeus work with jobcentre Plus clients on behalf of the department for Work and Pensions in order to help them find and sustain work.Ingeus are obligated to submit details of participant employment for a number of reasons including audit and statistical purposes, as well as to claim funding to meet operating costs. The accuracy of the information submitted is paramount and we therefore need to verify these details at several points of the participants employment in order to ensure this.

 

I acknowledge that you have not previously provided consent to share information with employers and therefore this will continue to be respected and upheld. We will not contact your employer to verify details of your previous employment. This is no way affects your entitlement to participate in the work programme.

 

You have indicated that you may be willing to verify your employment details yourself, I would be grateful if you would e-mail me, to let me know whether you are still happy to do this, if so I will arrange for my colleague(verification team manager) to contact you in order to facilitate this

 

I trust that the above explanation provides the information you requested. should you require any further details please do not hesitate to contact me.

 

 

My main concerns with this are:

 

When I asked the Advisor for an explanation at the time they could not explain the reasons verbally and took several days to do so.Then put together the above letter of explanation.

 

They have been pushing for me to do this(even though it states that if I am willing to do so, and implies choice)

 

My previous waiver stated that I do not consent to them contacting me when I sign off and that I would not provide them with employment details, therefore they would not be able to claim for a job should I get one on my own.

 

I would like to know the best way to handle this situation without implications for myself i.e being sanctioned or threatened.

 

If someone could get back to me with further information that would be helpful.

 

Kind Regards

However this never happened and I found myself unemployed again. Ingeus still have a contract with me from 2012 that finishes this year Nov 2013 and I have had to go back to Ingeus.

 

Although

i) DWP/JCP have a Service Level Agreement with Ingeus through the Work Programme

ii) a candidate has a contract with DWP/JCP through the Job Seekers Agreement,

a candidate may only have a relationship with the Work Programme insofar as the Job Seekers Agreement remains in operation.

 

If a candidate secures employment through their own efforts, they need neither indulge nor tolerate the Work Programme.

[Bakatcha]

the session cannot be mandatory since all Mandatory Activity Notices have to be in writing and contain the standard wording about sanctions if you fail to comply.

 

with the text message starting with

Text messages are not sufficient so you cannot be sanctioned for non attendance at the session.

[Mr.P]

What a joke. And I'm supposed to take employment advice from this company who can't conduct a sentence properly?

 

I haven't been on JSA since my last payment on the 19th June and have been waiting on my ESA money coming in (I only got the form in for that last week) so what exactly can Ingeus do to affect my benefits? My sick note from the doctor that went in the ESA form confirmed I would be unable to look for work for 8 weeks and I've already told them numerous times my situation and they keep harassing me.

 

Time to write a few letters of complaint. One to Ingeus head office, another to the DWP, and finally, one to your MP. You have been signed off as being unfit to work by qualified medical practitioners, the harassment by Ingeus is unwarranted and the stress caused is affecting your recovery. A letter to the offending Ingeus office stating that you are no longer claiming JSA and no further attempts to contact you should shut them up for a while (no need to tell them that you have transferred to ESA).

 

Oh, and they can not book you on to a "mandatory" course for the following day - They must do it in writing and give sufficient notice.

 

got spoken to like dirt because I apparently have an attitude problem.

 

You do not have an "attitude problem". It is them that have a problem with your attitude

Edited July 31, 2013 by Mr.P

[Raven1]

Latest universal Job Match abuse https://jobsearch.direct.gov.uk/GetJob.aspx?JobID=2822573 when you apply you are taken to http://www.jsajobs.org.uk/market-research-job-application/ where you are able to submit all your personal info to' Light Speed Research / My Survey'

 

A survey and competition site.

[mr_zedlister]

However this never happened and I found myself unemployed again. Ingeus still have a contract with me from 2012 that finishes this year Nov 2013 and I have had to go back to Ingeus.

 

Although

i) DWP/JCP have a Service Level Agreement with Ingeus through the Work Programme

ii) a candidate has a contract with DWP/JCP through the Job Seekers Agreement,

a candidate may only have a relationship with the Work Programme insofar as the Job Seekers Agreement remains in operation.

 

If a candidate secures employment through their own efforts, they need neither indulge nor tolerate the Work Programme.

 

Thanks for the reply, but how should i respond to this letter? I noticed the person said If am willing to do this and that it won't affect my participation on the programme(I DON'T CARE ABOUT THE PROGRAMME!) Do I just say that I don't consent to that agreement and wish to not discuss the matter any further? they see me every few weeks, which suits me down to the ground, but still hate the build up to that hellhole, makes the jobcentre look more inviting, least you know what's what there(most of the time) This forum is amazing and whoever put the word out about the data waiver really helped me realise what ingeus was all about and my rights whoever she/he is THANKS A MILLION!

[jasta11]

My advisor at JC has told me to bring in my universal jobmatch ID and password because it says i unable to find any details. i have told her that i didn`t tick the box what allows them to see my account. She said thats not the reason she can`t get on. it would say you do not have permission. is she tricking me somehow. if i log on there which is what she wants me to do, will they then be able to see my account when i log on at home. Was gonna take a screen print to prove i have registered and show her that.

 

If you haven't ticked the 'allow access' box then that's the end of it. The JC are not therefore authorised to access your account. If your advisor keeps on about it then report her to senior DWP managers and the PCS Union (who will not be happy that JC staff are trying to make you give access).

 

If you give the JC the email address you used to set up the account (just the email address, not the password) then when they try to log on they should get a message saying that you haven't given them permission to access your account. This proves to them that you have set up an account. Here's the guidelines from the Universal Jobmatch Toolkit Chapter 3 - their own rules. (I've underlined it)

 

Claimant has not given DWP access to their account

11. If the claimant has not given DWP permission to access their account your

search will open a page that returns a message which says, “User has not

provided permissions to access account.” This also confirms that the

claimant has completed their profile and therefore has created an account.

[Mr.P]

Thanks for the reply, but how should i respond to this letter? I noticed the person said If am willing to do this and that it won't affect my participation on the programme

 

Something along the lines of:

To whom it may concern.

 

Whilst you have a contractual obligation to provide accurate details to the DWP in order to receive outcome payments, there is no legal or moral requirement for me to supply the information. Until such time as you can quote specific legislation that overrides my rights to privacy, details of recent employment shall remain confidential.

 

In closing, I will take the opportunity to remind you that I do not consent to my personal information being stored or processed by yourselves.

 

Yours Sincerely

...

[mr_zedlister]

Something along the lines of:

 

Thanks very much, I couldn't have put it better myself, are you still with this charming organization also?I can't wait to break free from the bull****.

[mr_zedlister]

The thing is even if I was to agree to this crap, as soon as I got a job I would just hand new waiver, but do not want to be taken advantage of in the meantime in this hellhole.

[Mr.P]

Thanks very much, I couldn't have put it better myself, are you still with this charming organization also?I can't wait to break free from the bull****.

 

I have managed to avoid this particular bunch, but their modus operandi is well known and common across the "industry". Blame the unemployed for being out of work, bully them into worthless "courses", and generally insult or degrade them. In the meantime, tell the government and the public what a wonderful job they do by providing tailored and personalised support to each and every "client".

 

The thing is even if I was to agree to this crap, as soon as I got a job I would just hand new waiver, but do not want to be taken advantage of in the meantime in this hellhole.

 

Knowledge is power - With the DWP issued provider guidance notes in one hand and a recording device in the other, these "advisers" are a little more cautious with their threats. Fear is their biggest weapon and also their weakness. I would go in to a "meeting" with a tape recorder, a red pen, and a Leki walking stick (good for poking or whacking ).

[matty39]

If you haven't ticked the 'allow access' box then that's the end of it. The JC are not therefore authorised to access your account. If your advisor keeps on about it then report her to senior DWP managers and the PCS Union (who will not be happy that JC staff are trying to make you give access).

 

If you give the JC the email address you used to set up the account (just the email address, not the password) then when they try to log on they should get a message saying that you haven't given them permission to access your account. This proves to them that you have set up an account. Here's the guidelines from the Universal Jobmatch Toolkit Chapter 3 - their own rules. (I've underlined it)

 

Claimant has not given DWP access to their account

11. If the claimant has not given DWP permission to access their account your

search will open a page that returns a message which says, “User has not

provided permissions to access account.” This also confirms that the

claimant has completed their profile and therefore has created an account.

 

Thanks for the advice and to everyone else as well. When she tried looking, it didn`t say you don`t have permission which makes her think i haven`t registered so i think she wants prove that i have actually registered which is why i wondered if showing her a screen print to prove i have. there is no way im giving her my ID and password.

[Chester6]

Thanks for the advice and to everyone else as well. When she tried looking, it didn`t say you don`t have permission which makes her think i haven`t registered so i think she wants prove that i have actually registered which is why i wondered if showing her a screen print to prove i have. there is no way im giving her my ID and password.

 

All they need is your e-mail and then they'll see you have an account

If you tick the box to allow them permission then they can see your account eg CV etc

sometimes they don't find the account immediately though