Ingeus

[joeski]

Hi joeski I am guessing from the course name (confidence workshop) that this is what the provider considers to be help for your friend's anxiety issues!

There is a huge degree of irony that he became so anxious at what was supposed to be helping him/her with his anxiety that he felt compelled to leave the session. It must be remembered that Ingeus staff are not medically qualified in any way - let alone specialists in mental health. Unqualified people can do more damage than good and it would be extremely insensitive to raise any sort of sanction doubt in the circumstances described.

Should Ingeus attempt to do so I recommend that your friend seek immediate help from the CAB' I would also complain and threaten to contact the press with details.

 

thank you for the advice i'll tell him, ive always said that if his anxiety is that bad he should see a counciler..i also get the feeling that all WP providers don't really care about peoples problems just because they are unemployed.

[Bullpoofilter]

It must be remembered that Ingeus staff are not medically qualified in any way - let alone specialists in mental health.

 

Actually, this isn't strictly true.

 

Tell your friend to ask for a referral to the Mental Health side of the Health and Wellbeing team, all offices have access to a qualified Mental Health worker.

 

It's important to mention that they are not there to help your friend 'jump the queue' into NHS treatment. They are there however to help people and should be used where needed.

 

The workers are independant from the advisers and their work isn't shared.

 

Lastly, if your friend is finding that the anxiety they feel is making situations so stressful that they feel they need to leave it's a good indication that medical help via their GP is worth starting.

[Bakatcha]

Actually, this isn't strictly true.

 

Tell your friend to ask for a referral to the Mental Health side of the Health and Wellbeing team, all offices have access to a qualified Mental Health worker.

 

It's important to mention that they are not there to help your friend 'jump the queue' into NHS treatment. They are there however to help people and should be used where needed.

 

The workers are independant from the advisers and their work isn't shared.

 

Lastly, if your friend is finding that the anxiety they feel is making situations so stressful that they feel they need to leave it's a good indication that medical help via their GP is worth starting.

Point taken bullpoofilter. I should have said "not all staff are medically qualified" or even "most staff aren't medically qualified". I stand by the rest of my comment.

[Bullpoofilter]

Point taken bullpoofilter. I should have said "not all staff are medically qualified" or even "most staff aren't medically qualified". I stand by the rest of my comment.

 

 

You know what? I agree with you...

 

Even if the advisor did raise a doubt - which I would be frankly astonished if they did, it would still have to get past a decision maker. I also agree that serious damage can be done by someone unqualified and ill-equipped to help. So, it's important to realise the limitations of the service - healthcare and treatment is provided by the NHS, not the DWP.

 

There's also a massive difference between an issue with confidence and significant and life-limiting anxiety, it's an unrealistic expectation on anyone who is not suitably qualified to make that diagnosis. The advisor can only work with what they know and have at their disposal and it's unrealistic to expect that every person we encounter on our path through life is qualified to the extent that they can make these decisions, hence my recommendation to seek medical help.

[gil_jnr]

Thank you,

I ended my JSA claim by calling the in and out of work number, as my JCP adviser told me to, and they took my new employers details. I'm guessing this will be passed onto Ingeus then?

 

When you sign-off, if you write across the pages of your sign-off form "I do not consent to any of the employer information stated to be shared with any Work Programme organisation or other third party" The DWP processing office will not share that information and enable you to receive the £100 job grant.

 

I've had this confirmed by DWP managers at the 'In-work Team' and also by Ingeus who have contacted me several times to find out why I have disappeared

[Nystagmite]

I seem to remember Flumps saying the same thing. As long as you make it clear you're signing off for work, you'll get the grant and they can't share any information with the WP providers.

[Bakatcha]

You know what? I agree with you...

 

Even if the advisor did raise a doubt - which I would be frankly astonished if they did, it would still have to get past a decision maker. I also agree that serious damage can be done by someone unqualified and ill-equipped to help. So, it's important to realise the limitations of the service - healthcare and treatment is provided by the NHS, not the DWP.

 

There's also a massive difference between an issue with confidence and significant and life-limiting anxiety, it's an unrealistic expectation on anyone who is not suitably qualified to make that diagnosis. The advisor can only work with what they know and have at their disposal and it's unrealistic to expect that every person we encounter on our path through life is qualified to the extent that they can make these decisions, hence my recommendation to seek medical help.

and you know what? ..... I agree with you!

[john27]

i am sick to death of these "ingeus" [edit]s.. its no surprise that this thread is full of complaints about them... they have me on multiple courses and adviser interviews at the same time so i barely get a day to myself before i'm forced back down there to do yet another waste-of-time course.. its just "how to write a cv" or "confidence workshop" and other crap like that so they can justify their paychecks... i get the feeling they try and bombard you with so much stuff that it sickens people into accepting even the worst jobs with bad pay

 

this is demoralising and depressing... being unable to find a job is hard enough without being forced into zero social life because im stuck there every day

 

also they have this awful habit of ringing you up and telling you you need to come in the very next day at 9.00.. what if i had plans for that time?? if you object then you get the "you could be sanctioned" line... im sick of these people

Edited January 23, 2013 by honeybee13
Please do not compound things by replacing one insult with another. Re-edited.

[jasta11]

also they have this awful habit of ringing you up and telling you you need to come in the very next day at 9.00.. what if i had plans for that time?? if you object then you get the "you could be sanctioned" line... im sick of these people

 

Look at post #2523 a little way back. They CANNOT use phone or text to call you in to a mandatory appointment, it must be done by LETTER, either handed to you in person or posted..and they have to allow 2 working days for you to receive it.

 

Report them to the DWP for not following the guidelines of their contract and for threatening you. Also record the telephone calls too if you can - solid evidence.

[endstage]

"Engaging with" Does not mean signing an unconscionable contract - I cite.....

1st week of December 2012 I get sent to Igeus and am asked to simply sign a contract

which I read, clearly it was outrageous in stripping me of my rights and tunneling in to my

personal information, I looked him straight in the eye and asked "Having read this - and I

presume you know what you are asking me to sign, do you sincerely expect me to sign

this document and allow all and sundry to access this date ?"

 

His answer was clear "No Sir, actually you are not required to sign this document it doesn't

really matter"

 

He proceeded to ask me about my 1st job at 17 years of age (I'm over 50) and before briskly

zooming less than a minute over my entire employment history he visibly recoiled over my lengthy

unemployment period ( I have end stage coronary artery disease, and had a stroke 4 months

previously ) before realising I could not possibly fit in to his remit.

 

I also then asked him if he was a legally qualified employment adviser, his reply was an

emphatic "No sir I am not"

 

He then ended the interview by referring me to another adviser.

 

This is a works in progress, thanks to all for their contributions

 

 

 

If you refuse to participate with the providers they wil refer your case for a decision to consider the payability of future payments of JSA. These sanctions range from 2 weeks initially to the maximum of 26 weeks if a client refuses to engage with the provider so by refusing to sign any paperwork with the providers you are in effect refusing to engage with them.

 

With regards to help with the costs of interview clothes the providers are currently paid a sign up fee from the government to be able to provide help wih travel costs, courses and help with items to remove barriers that are potentialy preventing you from entering the workforce (such as no suitable interview clothing or even needing a haircut or alarm clock), the vast majority of providers begrudge paying this money out for anything and will try to fob clients off by saying no without providing a reason to back it up, so I would advise requesting a copy of the complaints procedure and requesting the help again.

 

If you don't specify when you close your claim to the JCP office that you are starting work of 16 or more hours per week expected to last 5 weeks or more then you will not qualify for the help with the job grant and other run on payments with housing costs.

You could write a letter to the JCP Manager stating that you feel aggrieved that the providers will be paid for you finding work whe they have not helped in the slightest but unfortunately they will still be paid (it may lead to the contracts being tightened up so that the poviders have to show that they did help to secure the offer of employment to be paid in the future).

Even when you end your cliam as you are placed with that provider for a 2 year period they will continue to attempt to contact yu on a regular basis too to enquire if you are still working as the longer you stay in employment the bigger the payment they recive. You do not have to speak to them of course! You can change you contact numbers etc tey can't do anything about that

 

Yes you are correct, I am a customer service adviser for JCP.

[Bakatcha]

Welcome endstage , from another "oldie". Enjoyed your post and look forward to more. My you do seem to have a very polite adviser "Sir" indeed!

I take great pleasure in annoying my pimps by referring to myself as Mr. Bakatcha. On my last visit the receptionist and I had something like the following exchange:

Me : Mr. Bakatcha here to see Ms. X at 2.30".

Receptionist: "what's your first name?"

Me: "Mister"

Receptionist: "Look we have a lot of Mr. Bakatchas so I need to know your first name to avoid confusion."

Me: Looking around the practically deserted space in a vain search for the hordes of other Mr. Bakatchas with a 2.30 appointment " My NI No is XX XX XX xx A - is that enough of a unique identifier for you?"

Now this may seem harsh but the point I'm trying to make is that these people are not my friends. This is a strictly business arrangement to which I am an unwilling participant. They will try to sanction me at the drop of a hat whilst trying to be friendly and on first name terms. I am not advocating open hostility, nor am I advocating not taking advantage of any genuine help available (though I've seen precious little of that) just that people should be very wary.

[john27]

Look at post #2523 a little way back. They CANNOT use phone or text to call you in to a mandatory appointment, it must be done by LETTER, either handed to you in person or posted..and they have to allow 2 working days for you to receive it.

 

Report them to the DWP for not following the guidelines of their contract and for threatening you. Also record the telephone calls too if you can - solid evidence.

 

yeah man thanks but i dont really want to make a complaint or anything as the adviser will just get annoyed and probably start making life difficult -- indeed some of the other clients i'm friendly with have it even worse so "better the devil you know" sort of thing - i'll share some more of my experiences with ingeus though:

 

ive been stuck in the ingeus gulag for almost a year and they keep putting me on this 4 week "employability skills course", where you'll be stuck in a room while the most boring man on the planet drones on for hours about the "hidden job market" and writing a CV - nobody wants to be there so expect many people gazing out the window in a stupor - i honestly didnt mind it at first and was attentive and eager but once you've been dragged in to hear the same information multiple times it really does demoralise you

 

i read in this thread that ingeus get paid by the government for each 'bum on seat' in a course/workshop - so since they do numerous courses in a day they seem to be doing quite well from where i'm sitting - yet i was told they "dont reimburse taxi fares" - so multiple times i've had to find taxi fares for mandated interviews about 20 miles away - hello im on the dole?!?!?

 

and just wait until your ingeus adviser passes your details to other advisers there and you start getting phone calls from completely random people trying to put you on crappy jobs that they need more numbers for - i have a feeling they target the best clients and try and put them on as many jobs as possible because the advisers get a bonus if you find employment - they generally leave the wasters alone while the diligent get stuck in the gulag for endless time-wasting 'workshops'

Edited January 24, 2013 by john27

[G4C389]

How long have ingeus being going for? and was it soley David Cameron's idea to bring this in? And what else is baffling is why would an advisor keep you with them instead of referring you to an other advisor at a mark were they ars supposed to refer you to another advisor? Happened to my friend recently and it happened to me, when really we wanted another advisor

[osdset]

It was actually the Labour party that started the WP ball rolling with Flexible New Deal (FND), populated with the pimps of the day, Working Links, Reed in Partnership and so on.

This wheeze was scrapped because it was open to even more financial fraud by the pimps, plus the fact that as an effective way to get people into work it was as much use as a chocolate fire guard.

 

The ConDems are merely building on the foundation Labour set up.

 

Call these confidence tricks what you will; FND, the Work Programme, pathways to enlightenment, the uber dim light at the end of a very, very long tunnel, at the end of the day it's all bunkum. Smoke and Mirrors at it's best Houdini would have been proud!

[G4C389]

It was actually the Labour party that started the WP ball rolling with Flexible New Deal (FND), populated with the pimps of the day, Working Links, Reed in Partnership and so on.

This wheeze was scrapped because it was open to even more financial fraud by the pimps, plus the fact that as an effective way to get people into work it was as much use as a chocolate fire guard.

 

The ConDems are merely building on the foundation Labour set up.

 

Call these confidence tricks what you will; FND, the Work Programme, pathways to enlightenment, the uber dim light at the end of a very, very long tunnel, at the end of the day it's all bunkum. Smoke and Mirrors at it's best Houdini would have been proud!

 

I see thanks, I watched a video on YouTube were ed milliband grilled Cameron about introducing it and milliband was right, I remember getting this job and complaining to my local office manager about contacting them, he replied by e-mail 'we have to make a phone call which we have now done , what are you going to do about it', is this something you would expect from a manager? An advisor yes (knowing them) but a manager? Pathetic or what

Edited January 25, 2013 by G4C389

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Hi joeski I am guessing from the course name (confidence workshop) that this is what the provider considers to be help for your friend's anxiety issues!

There is a huge degree of irony that he became so anxious at what was supposed to be helping him/her with his anxiety that he felt compelled to leave the session. It must be remembered that Ingeus staff are not medically qualified in any way - let alone specialists in mental health. Unqualified people can do more damage than good and it would be extremely insensitive to raise any sort of sanction doubt in the circumstances described.

Should Ingeus attempt to do so I recommend that your friend seek immediate help from the CAB' I would also complain and threaten to contact the press with details.

Absolutely....if Administrative Clerks, working for Deloitte-Ingeus, possessed anything approaching credible Medical Training (be they Nurses, Doctors, Medical Practitioners etc), they would be working in the Medical Sector, and not at a lower point in the economic food chain than Job Centre Plus.

 

Hence, if anyone feels compelled to discuss any issue in confidence with a Professional, and not some mere quack, then seek a meeting with a Councillor or GP.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

How long have ingeus being going for? and was it soley David Cameron's idea to bring this in? And what else is baffling is why would an advisor keep you with them instead of referring you to an other advisor at a mark were they ars supposed to refer you to another advisor? Happened to my friend recently and it happened to me, when really we wanted another advisor

Ingeus was started by Theresa Reine in Australia in 1988, married to the former Australian Prime Minister Kevin Rudd, and grew locally and nationally. They established a foothold in the UK through Work Directions UK in 2001 through Welfare To Work Services, rebranded themselves as Ingeus in Aug 2010 and in Oct 2010 established a joint venture with Deloitte to bid for the Work Programme Contracts which were formerly announced Dec 22 2010. Deloitte-Ingeus offered a bid reportedly 70% less than any other party, and were awarded with 23% of the Contracts.

 

It was entirely coincidental that, in 2009, when Chris Grayling was Opposition Minister for Works and Pensions Deloitte provided a "Free Staffer" in his office, valued at £27800.

[stikky62]

A 4th advisor??? How come your on your 4th? Did they throw you from pillow to post? I was there 7 months and had 1 advisor, I thought they changed your advisor every 6 months

 

 

It's 5 now, in 9 months.

A letter arrived yesterday for an appointment next week with another new 'Personal Employment Advisor's name on it.

[allhahaheehee]

I've had 3 and getting a new one soon that's 4 since September

[easily1234]

Hi everybodyyy.. i signed off the Job Centre just before christmas as i was finding ingeus a waste of time and more stressfull than it was worth. i have just recieved a call from ingeus saying "why have i missed all these appointment etc etc" i unfortunatley stated that i have been working self employed (which i havent) thats why i signed off" just so they would get off my back.. he then told me that i should come in tomorrow where he will pay me for travel costs etc "from my work that i have not done"..i will not be going in but i was wondering why was he wanted me to go in so badly as i stated 3 times the costs of travel arent bothering me

[joeski]

ingeus are making me and my friends anxiety worse..my friend couldn't cope with the confidence workshop last week so he walked out and told a member of ingeus staff. today he got a letter telling him about an appointment february and it said they it was mandatory to attend all appointments but the woman who takes the confidence workshop said it was volentry :S if he walked out the first session last week does that mean he has to attend the second one which is tommorow?

[john27]

ingeus are making me and my friends anxiety worse..my friend couldn't cope with the confidence workshop last week so he walked out and told a member of ingeus staff. today he got a letter telling him about an appointment february and it said they it was mandatory to attend all appointments but the woman who takes the confidence workshop said it was volentry :S if he walked out the first session last week does that mean he has to attend the second one which is tommorow?

 

your friend really should try and complete the confidence workshop instead of walking out - it sounds like it would be pretty helpful - your friend will have to find a job sooner or later and cant just live on the dole evading employment because of anxiety - they won't be having any of it

 

so if i were you i'd tell your mate to give the workshop another go and try and complete it, the confidence boost will hopefully alleviate his anxiety

[joeski]

your friend really should try and complete the confidence workshop instead of walking out - it sounds like it would be pretty helpful - your friend will have to find a job sooner or later and cant just live on the dole evading employment because of anxiety - they won't be having any of it

 

so if i were you i'd tell your mate to give the workshop another go and try and complete it, the confidence boost will hopefully alleviate his anxiety

 

its not as simple as that, oh he does want a job but he suffers from very bad anxiety..he can't even go into shop to hand in a c/v without worrying about what he is gonna say. if he can't do that without getting so nervous he is almost sick then how the hell is he gonna cope with a job interview?!

telling people who have problems such as anxiety just to get on with things isn't very helpful..imho he needs one to one counselling before been thrown head long into group sessions with people he doesn't know.

this country's attitude towards people who are unemployed is absolutely disgusting, if your looking for a group of people to brand scroungers then look no further than MPs who fiddle their expenses which they don't need and get payed far to much for doing very little. my friend and i are no scroungers and seriously want a job but there are barriers we must overcome before we can get anywhere.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

its not as simple as that, oh he does want a job but he suffers from very bad anxiety..he can't even go into shop to hand in a c/v without worrying about what he is gonna say. if he can't do that without getting so nervous he is almost sick then how the hell is he gonna cope with a job interview?!

telling people who have problems such as anxiety just to get on with things isn't very helpful..imho he needs one to one counselling before been thrown head long into group sessions with people he doesn't know.

this country's attitude towards people who are unemployed is absolutely disgusting, if your looking for a group of people to brand scroungers then look no further than MPs who fiddle their expenses which they don't need and get payed far to much for doing very little. my friend and i are no scroungers and seriously want a job but there are barriers we must overcome before we can get anywhere.

According to popular myth, Building Contractors used to visit Building Site to Building Site, finding work on spec.... that has changed over recent decades, and even for retail jobs, the task of securing a job is more difficult than simply walking into a shop and handing in a CV.

[Chester6]

According to popular myth, Building Contractors used to visit Building Site to Building Site, finding work on spec.... that has changed over recent decades, and even for retail jobs, the task of securing a job is more difficult than simply walking into a shop and handing in a CV.

 

I know with many retail sites it's just online applying now, I also know that some like HMV ignore spec letters and just bin them, some companies when you apply on spec will advise you to use their online site

it all makes a lie (yet again) out of what the Ingeus, A4E and others claim

it doesn't help that some so-called advisers get people to send spec letters out a lot and claim this will help with the jobcentre to think you are looking for work