Ingeus

[Bullpoofilter]

That's heartening news.

 

 

 

And a good deal of the time they would be correct in that assumption.

 

 

 

 

It's a sad yet unavoidable part of being mandated to WP, even when someone is being more than reasonable with an 'adviser', the 'adviser' still insists on being unreasonable, and objectionable, a sanction threat usually follows.

 

The pimps get all they deserve IMHO.

 

Thanks Osdset for illustrating my point so perfectly.

[osdset]

Thanks Osdset for illustrating my point so perfectly.

 

You're more than welcome, feel free to ask for advice at any time, no attachment fees or outcome payments expected.

[jimduf22]

Good news at last. An email i received from ingeus

 

Dear Mr *****

Thank you for your email. The central problem that we have here is that our Advisor does not feel comfortable with being recorded during your appointment with her.

This is her right legally and we must respect that.

There is also no one else on the team who feels comfortable with being recorded during your appointment.

I recognise that you want to record the next appointment with us and (between ****** and I) we are looking to arrange an appointment with someone who is comfortable with being recorded.

This may end up being one of us and may not be possible until the new year.

We will be in touch as soon as possible with an appointment date and time and you will be able to record this appointment as it will take place in a private room.

It goes without saying that the appointment will be focused on helping you to find sustainable employment.

Kind regards,

******

also has a phone call from the dwp today telling me my sanction has been over turned.

[Bakatcha]

Yes, on a daily basis.

 

Unfortunately some people take it upon themselves to attempt to control the situation in a manner that's worked for them in the past, either through the use of foul language, threatening gestures and behaviour or attempting to demean ARE YOU TALKING OF CLIENT OR ADVISOR ? their adviser through "I'm far cleverer than you" type tactics.

 

It was a sad yet unavoidable part of the job, even when you're being more than reasonable with someone that they would choose to try to push it that little further.

 

I was regularly 'squared up to', called all sorts of names (actually some of it was quite funny), and even told that until I presented my degree certificate that the person I was dealing with was not going to listen to me as I was clearly not very clever. Needless to say I framed it and sat it on my desk for his next appointment...

 

You seem oblivious to the that some clients/customers/stock are far more intelligent/qualified/experienced than some of the sales people masquerading as "advisors".

[Chester6]

in my experience some don't come across as very clever, too many rely on stuff that is repeated so much that the clients know the script, some come across as vacuous and vacant and rely on the threats/ scare tactics to keep everyone under the thumb

I had a woman tell me about how at work I could meet girls so I felt like she was pimping me out or something

[Bullpoofilter]

You seem oblivious to the that some clients/customers/stock are far more intelligent/qualified/experienced than some of the sales people masquerading as "advisors".

 

Not at all, some of the people I worked with were exceptionally talented engineers / musicians / chemists etc, none of which I pretend to know anything about othertthan than what I have gleaned in passing interest. What was even more remarkable was that of those people from all backgrounds and educational achievement levels that I met I've come away with a good few as friends.

 

The point I was making was that a condescending attitude from someone is simply their own way of exerting control. It's no different to swearing / shouting or attempting to physically intimidate someone else. I knew full well who to expect it from, generally because they brought their DWP incident marker with them and in fairness it was never taken to heart or used as ammunition. Like I said, some of it was quite creative and actually very funny, to the point that on a number of occasions my arch nemesis and I used to end our appointment laughing at what had gone before. I have a lot of respect for someone willing to challenge the status quo in a reasonable and appropriate way.

[RaeUK]

I've absolutely no idea if you are who you intimate you are, Bullpoofilter, and have previously worked for a WP company. This being the internet and anyone can be anyone, for a while at least. But, if so, then I would have thought you'd be able to add an interesting insight into how things are and I look forward to your future contributions.

[Bullpoofilter]

Rae, I worked for Ingeus up until a few months ago. One of the joys of spending your days looking for jobs is that you often see ones you'd like to do yourself.

 

I'm no longer working in the welfare to work world but I am happy to add a llittle clarity where I can.

[RaeUK]

In which case I'm sure your measured input would be of interest, particularly as more and more people are being funneled down that route. I don't have any experience of it myself as, despite four years on ESA, I'm yet to emerge from the sorting hat...

[G4C389]

Rae, I worked for Ingeus up until a few months ago. One of the joys of spending your days looking for jobs is that you often see ones you'd like to do yourself.

 

I'm no longer working in the welfare to work world but I am happy to add a llittle clarity where I can.

 

You have worked for a WP before? Just a question, when an advisor subs a client on to a job to certain company's that come to the WP for help in finding staff, does the WP just pick any Tom,dick and Harry for these, because when I first started attending the WP my advisor sent me in 2 if them in 2 weeks, and there were only about 8 of us there, out of about 100 clients per advisor, as a client is it a good thing or a bad thing from an advisors perspective?

[Bullpoofilter]

You have worked for a WP before? Just a question, when an advisor subs a client on to a job to certain company's that come to the WP for help in finding staff, does the WP just pick any Tom,dick and Harry for these, because when I first started attending the WP my advisor sent me in 2 if them in 2 weeks, and there were only about 8 of us there, out of about 100 clients per advisor, as a client is it a good thing or a bad thing from an advisors perspective?

 

Hi G4, for us in what was one of the smaller offices we generally put forward the people we felt were best suited for the role and who stood the best chance at interviews. Our caseload was around the 180/200 mark and we were normally putting perhaps 2 or 3 forward.

 

Is it a good thing? I would think so, I never put anyone forward who wasn't suitable and equally the person had to want to do it too.

 

An employer would generally give us a set of criteria in relation to the people they were looking for. As an advisor I would then cross match those against what I knew of the people I worked with, then contact them directly to ask if they were interested before submitting their CV. People would then be invited in for a chat and perhaps a pre screen interview with questions the employer had specified before then, hopefully, an interview with the employer. It was a very effective way of working and certainly not a bad thing.

[Bakatcha]

Hi G4, for us in what was one of the smaller offices we generally put forward the people we felt were best suited for the role and who stood the best chance at interviews. Our caseload was around the 180/200 mark and we were normally putting perhaps 2 or 3 forward.

 

Is it a good thing? I would think so, I never put anyone forward who wasn't suitable and equally the person had to want to do it too.

 

An employer would generally give us a set of criteria in relation to the people they were looking for. As an advisor I would then cross match those against what I knew of the people I worked with, then contact them directly to ask if they were interested before submitting their CV. People would then be invited in for a chat and perhaps a pre screen interview with questions the employer had specified before then, hopefully, an interview with the employer. It was a very effective way of working and certainly not a bad thing.

Would that there was more of this!

I get the impression that there is far too much effort put into trying to force people into unsuitable (and usually low grade) jobs and far too little effort into establishing meaningful contact with local employers and finding genuine vacancies to fill.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

Hi G4, for us in what was one of the smaller offices we generally put forward the people we felt were best suited for the role and who stood the best chance at interviews. Our caseload was around the 180/200 mark and we were normally putting perhaps 2 or 3 forward.

 

Is it a good thing? I would think so, I never put anyone forward who wasn't suitable and equally the person had to want to do it too.

 

An employer would generally give us a set of criteria in relation to the people they were looking for. As an advisor I would then cross match those against what I knew of the people I worked with, then contact them directly to ask if they were interested before submitting their CV. People would then be invited in for a chat and perhaps a pre screen interview with questions the employer had specified before then, hopefully, an interview with the employer. It was a very effective way of working and certainly not a bad thing.

Only if this scenario were replicated across the UK... half the time, Welfare To Work Staff give the impression that they could not manage their way out of an open and transparent paper bag.

[Chester6]

Would that there was more of this!

I get the impression that there is far too much effort put into trying to force people into unsuitable (and usually low grade) jobs and far too little effort into establishing meaningful contact with local employers and finding genuine vacancies to fill.

 

It's easier to find a short-term fix or shove people into jobs with no long-term prospects and not to do with your job goals - it's all about targets and not keeping the unemployed employed permanently, that's why so often it's about factory, warehouse and agency work

[Masso]

It's easier to find a short-term fix or shove people into jobs with no long-term prospects and not to do with your job goals - it's all about targets and not keeping the unemployed employed permanently, that's why so often it's about factory, warehouse and agency work

 

Well, my Advisor couldn't care less that i got a 4 week job at Royal Mail. All he was interested in was "sustainable employment", My local job centre congratulated me for getting 4 weeks work...

 

Ingeus couldn't give a flying $%£&!!! I'm back at the job centre on Monday for a rapid-reclaim, god i miss the job and money/wages already.

[Masso]

@ Bullpoofilter

 

So, Ingeus Advisors actually do work? I was with Ingeus for over a year and they only ever suggested 2 vacancies to me...

 

Every-time i attend Ingeus i see Advisors drinking cups of tea, talking to clients in a cantankerous/patronising manner. Paid over 20k for doing sweet FA in my opinion, when can i start? What a dream job, to do absolutely nothing and be paid for it.

 

All the jobs i applied for i applied for myself, found myself, completed applications myself. Ingeus wanted credit for doing F all, so I've proved a point...

 

Ingeus get paid for doing nothing, in my case anyway.

Edited December 28, 2012 by Masso

[stikky62]

@ Bullpoofilter

 

So, Ingeus Advisors actually do work? I was with Ingeus for over a year and they only ever suggested 2 vacancies to me...

 

I've been with them (well, someone else actually, but they're all the same) about 8 months and they've only ever suggested 3 vacancies to me. At the time I had just found and started a new job and because I was still looking for something else had already seen those 3 vacancies myself - about a week earlier!

 

Every-time i attend Ingeus i see Advisors drinking cups of tea, talking to clients in a cantankerous/patronising manner. Paid over 20k for doing sweet FA in my opinion

Its' 14-18k around here (they're always advertising for staff...lol) but yes, they still do f.a

 

All the jobs i applied for i applied for myself, found myself, completed applications myself. Ingeus wanted credit for doing F all, so I've proved a point...

It may surprise you to know (who am I kidding), they're a complete waste of time for most people.

 

Ingeus get paid for doing nothing, in my case anyway.

 

I had a job which only lasted 4 weeks also and now I'm back on the 2yr sentence I've already told them what I think of the whole Work Program farce and If I do happen to get a job any time soon they can go sing for any outcome or sustainment payments - i'll just sign off and not tell the DWP why. If they want payments - they ARE going to have to earn them - or just leave me alone to continue as I am (looking like crazy for a job as it happens!). God knows how they're going to treat me in 2013

 

 

Oh, my last 'meeting' was a group thing for those that had been in WP for over a certain length of time (17 wks+ ? ) and I got the distinct feeling that a lot more people are getting really pee'd off with it and can see through all the b.s. I gave the advisor a bit of a hard time (as you do:wink:) going on about reaching targets, the constant threats of sanctions, etc etc etc, and it was great to have a majority of the other detainees agreeing with me and also speaking out. I turned the meeting into something the advisor really wasn't expecting, but every credit to him he handled it well although he was stuck for an answer on more than one occasion

This fella seems like a genuinely nice guy who does want to help, but time WILL tell and knowing my attitude I'll find out sooner rather than later how genuine he really is. They get a lot of stick round here but they're not all bad you know ;-) I can say that with conviction too because when I was first sentenced an ex work colleague of mine was there doing the Induction. She's not there now (seen the light I guess) but she was ok...lol

Edited December 28, 2012 by stikky62

[Nystagmite]

Well, my Advisor couldn't care less that i got a 4 week job at Royal Mail. All he was interested in was "sustainable employment", My local job centre congratulated me for getting 4 weeks work...

 

That's ridiculous of your adviser. In the current climate, you're lucky to even get a temporary job.

 

Actually, that doesn't surprise me as he won't get his payments for you staying in employment.

[Katrianah]

Hi all. Recent referee to Ingeus here.

 

I'm an ESA-WRAG claimant. Prior to my referral I was making progress in stabilising enough to go back to work - I have a litany of health complaints, all chronic, some quite severe in their limitations. I've been told by specialists I will never work full time again, but was aiming for part-time. Currently volunteering.

 

Since I heard I was being referred, I've had a recurrence of severe panic attacks that I previously had a handle on, and a severe backslide in the rest of my mental health. My GP is *horrified*. At my first appointment, I had a severe episode, not helped by the conflicting information given by Ingeus and Interserve (partner company) about when and where my appointment was. As the room is open-plan, this episode occured rather embarassingly in front of four other advisors and their clients.

 

If this keeps up, I'll have to give up my volunteer position. I don't want to do that, but I'm facing the prospect of a severe deterioration in my health and possible hospitalisation. I was fine managing on my own, and in one fell swoop Ingeus and the DWP's new policy for ESA claimants has undone over a year's worth of hard work. I'm angry and I'm upset, and I do not want to have to go to that stupid office and basically sign on every two weeks.

 

This programme is going to kill people. And there's a chance I'll be one of them.

[RebeccaPidgeon]

@ Bullpoofilter

 

So, Ingeus Advisors actually do work? I was with Ingeus for over a year and they only ever suggested 2 vacancies to me...

 

Every-time i attend Ingeus i see Advisors drinking cups of tea, talking to clients in a cantankerous/patronising manner. Paid over 20k for doing sweet FA in my opinion, when can i start? What a dream job, to do absolutely nothing and be paid for it.

 

All the jobs i applied for i applied for myself, found myself, completed applications myself. Ingeus wanted credit for doing F all, so I've proved a point...

 

Ingeus get paid for doing nothing, in my case anyway.

Only 2 suggested vacancies in a single year? Even if the clerks only referred to the Recruitment Pages of the local newspaper, they could probably suggest about 100 in a single week. And if their ultra "Secret Jobs Database" was worth anything, an incentive which the Clerks mention during the first meeting simply to get candidates to sign the Data Protection Waiver, they should easily arrange a face to face interview by telephoning a preferential contact during the first meeting.

[Bakatcha]

Well I've been an unwilling conscript to this farce for over a year now and in that time I have had ZERO/NIL/NONE job vacancies pointed out to me by WP staff - errr well just realised that's not quite true - there were a couple of heavy hints that I should consider working for them! I politely declined on both occasions

[G4C389]

I got a letter a few weeks ago offering in work support, saying they will phone or e-mail me to see how I'm getting on, that was before I withdrawn consent, I mean in 6 months if working all I had was 2 solitary phone calls to offer so called 'support', my advisor helped me out when I first got the job, but the company want interested, one week at this job I got 11 hours work and struggled and couldn't get help from them, so yes they get paid for doing sweet f.a

[JuJuxxx]

I get the impression that there is far too much effort put into trying to force people into unsuitable (and usually low grade) jobs and far too little effort into establishing meaningful contact with local employers and finding genuine vacancies to fill.

This would be like hard work to some of them the least amount they have to do the better it is for them as I suspect contacting some employers gets them a sharp rebuff just as it does the normal person pestering them looking for work when they have not advertised a vacancy.

[JuJuxxx]

Half the time, Welfare To Work Staff give the impression that they could not manage their way out of an open and transparent paper bag.

 

They give that impression because that is a true representation of their true self, they saw the money first and applied for the job thinking it was going to be a doddle only to find they were not able to offer anything to their client unless they threatened sanctions. They can't handle helping the client look for decent jobs all they have to offer is dumping people on the sad excuse for courses that are on offer or the useless talks and rubbish they dish out on a daily basis.

[Masso]

Only 2 suggested vacancies in a single year? Even if the clerks only referred to the Recruitment Pages of the local newspaper, they could probably suggest about 100 in a single week. And if their ultra "Secret Jobs Database" was worth anything, an incentive which the Clerks mention during the first meeting simply to get candidates to sign the Data Protection Waiver, they should easily arrange a face to face interview by telephoning a preferential contact during the first meeting.

 

Well, when i first attended Ingues they seemed very helpful. I met a lady who works for Ingeus, she basically cold calls possible employers and says "we can take care of your recruitment if needed"...

 

She arranged an interview at a Children's play center, then at a Travelodge. Both jobs didn't exist, i believe the companies felt pressured into interviewing people.

 

They offered me a trial at the children's play center, but in the kitchen. I have no experience at all, or qualifications. The original job was 30 hours as a children's entertainer...

 

Then when i attended the Interview it was only 16 hours!!!