Freedom pass-unbelivable case

[introuble74]

My father in law had received his freedom pass last year and his name was misspelled on it

he called the council and after a while he received a second freedom pass with the correct name.

 

He has never sent back the wrong one and I have started to use it-big mistake.

In the same time he was using the freedom pass with the correct name on it.

 

After 5 or 6 motnhs I was caught on the british rail and I said to the ticket inspector that my father in law has lended me his freedom pass

( I was very afraid of the consequences as I never did anything so stupid).

 

I have to mention that I was using the freedom pass for 3 single journeys every week

and for the rest of the journeys I was using my oyster card which the the inspector have checked on his machine.

 

He took the freedom pass from me and my father in law informed that his freedom pass(with correct name) is not working anymore.

 

Now I am desperate,

 

I have a two year old son and I do not want to go to prison

 

.I have always bought a ticket for the last 13 years, now I have financial difficulties and it seems that I have made the biggest mistake of my life.

 

On top of everything I am also in trouble with my father in law who wants his freedom pass back.

 

Can someone advise me what's next?

Can my father in law get a new freedom pass?

Does he has to wait for the outcome on the sittuation or can apply for a replacement now?

I know a lot of people here will blame me and I know they are right but can someone help with some advice please?

I am so stressed about the whole situation that I have ended up in hospital .

 

Thank you in anticipation for your help

[Old-CodJA]

I'm not going to bang on about how wrong your actions have been, you know that already, but you do need to try to put a little perspective into this. If this is a first offence, you are not going to prison, so stop worrying about that

 

You will get a letter from the rail company asking you to confirm that you are the person reported and to explain why you didn't have a valid ticket of your own. The letter will probably warn that the company is considering prosecuting and as soon as you get it, you should write back with a sincere apology and ask if they will allow you an opportunity to settle this without court action.

 

I'm not going to pretend that is a foregone conclusion. It isn't because they do consider this sort of thing to be a serious breach of trust, but you need to focus on the fact that it isn't so serious as to be life-threatening.

 

Try not to worry too much for now and when you get that letter, post on here again and tell us what it says without giving any personal details. Be patient, sometimes it can take a few weeks before you get a letter because the offices that deal with these things are very busy.

 

It is likely that you father-in-laws Oyster Freedom pass has been automatically disabled because the offence has been detected and reported. Whether or not he gets another one will depend a great deal on what happens after you reply to that letter.

[SRPO]

You wont go to prison.

You have a 100% chance of being prosecuted.

 

For the record, I hope they throw the book at you.

[Old-CodJA]

Yes, just to clarify my earlier response I agree with SRPO that this deserves serious consequences.

 

However you dress it up, using someone else's concessionary Oyster provided by DWP or local authority is stealing and stealing from the public purse.

 

On the face of it, this case appears to be blatant fare evasion, but before panic sets in, I suggest the OP waits for that verification letter and then replies truthfully.

[introuble74]

Thanks for you replys.

 

The fact that I am going to be prosecuted but I won't go to prison is good news.

 

As I have mentioned ,above this is the biggest mistake in my life I have ever done and it is first and hopefully the only one .

There is only one person to blame :ME.

I deserve any punishment .

I am a very anxious person and that is the reason I have ended up in hospital for 3 days being so stressed after the incident.

 

It happend on 17th of May and I have not received anything from TFL since.

I feel very embarassed and confussed as I have never been in a court.

 

How am I going to explain that there were 2 freedom passes(when the first one was supposed to be sent back to the council).

I do not want to tell lies.

If I am going to be fined do I pay the cost of use for both passes?

Can anyone tell me what is the maximum fine I might have to pay?

How long this ordeal can last?

When everything is done on what reason can my father in law apply for a replacement?

I do understand everyone who blames me ,it is all my fault.

 

Thank you in anticipation for your answers to my questions.

 

P.S.I will inform you when I get the letter with details and hopefully I can get some more advice.

Reading most of the posts online I haven't seen anyone in this situation

(2freedom passes) this is the reason I am so worried.

[honeybee13]

Hello there.

 

I don't know how long TfL take to write to you, but the gurus here [i'm not one] normally quote six to eight weeks approximately. It will depend on how busy the department is.

 

I'm sorry this has made you ill, but the only way to relieve the pressure now is to get on with answering the letter when you get it, with help from the guys and then moving forward with the procedures.

 

Nor do I know about the two Freedom passes question, but you're saying you only used the first mis-spelled one, am I right? My personal logic would say that you wouldn't be liable for a pass you didn't use, but the guys may be able to advise you.

 

I think the only way out of this for you is to tell the truth. If you don't, you could be caught out and then it will be worse for you.

 

Does your father in law know why his Freedom card is cancelled please?

 

My best, HB

[introuble74]

Thanks for your reply HB.Yes you are right, I have used only the first pass(mis-spelled one).It was hard to explain to my in laws but I have told them the truth.They thought that by getting the second freedom pass,the first one was deactivated automatically and they forgot about it.And then I started to use it.The worry for me and for him is I do not want him to be called in court(for not sending the mis-spelled one back) as is not his fault and also the idea that he might not get another one(he paid his fares and taxes all his life) I think he deserves another one.Thank you

[honeybee13]

Hello there. As I said, I don't know the ins and outs of Freedom passes, but hopefully someone here will understand the system and explain more to you.

 

At least you've told your in laws, so that's not something else to dread doing.

 

My best, HB

[Wriggler7]

I think that everyone involved in 'rail fare evasion' cases, prosecutors, potential defendants and the rest, need to keep perspective.

 

Over the years, I have read a lot of 'evidence', seen many photographs, listened to many 'victims' and offenders. In my experiences, fare dodging is at the bottom end of 'villainy'.

 

One of my heros is a man called Hartley Shawcross, I have a picture of him on the wall of my office, and one or two of his quotations on the office notice board.

 

Whenever I think that I have read the worst 'story' ever, I compare it with the evidence that he was obliged to read, and present. The aggrieved that he represented all paid their rail fares, the funds were appropriated, and passed through the SS to the various railways that transported them towards Poland.

 

If in the scale of 1 to 10, genocide is 10, bunking a train fare in England in 2011 barely flicks the meter of measurement. Ok, so there are consequences to all offending, but very slight, the convicted fare dodger will end up being fined, and as long as his name is not linked with football or his sister in law, it will not be spread across the pages of our gutter press.

 

You do need to face the consequences, but the 'worst' is far less painful than most events in life.

[introuble74]

I do agree with you Wriggler7 and I am sure I will learn from this and become wiser.Thanks for the encouraging words and I hope there will be people who will learn from my mistake.

[Grotesque]

One of my heros is a man called Hartley Shawcross, I have a picture of him on the wall of my office, and one or two of his quotations on the office notice board.

 

During a rent tribunal case he referred to certain workers as "six black n*gg*rs"... apparently!!!

[introuble74]

The scary letter has arrived after 5 stressfull weeks .

 

I know Old-CodJA has asked to post again when I get the letter and here are the news:

 

" On 17/05/2011 at 15:45 an incident took place at X station whereby you were spoken to by a member of London Underground staff regarding your train and the associated fare.

The facts of this incidents are now being consdered and I must advise you that legal proceedings

may be initiated against you regarding this matter in accordance wih London Underground prosecution policy.

 

If you have any comments to make regarding this incident please write them on the reverse side of this letter and complete the information panel below,

returning the whole letter ,whithin 10days.

 

You do not have to reply to this letter but it may harm your defence if you do not mention something which you may rely on in court.

Anything that you do provide in writing may be usd in evidence.

Failure to respond to this letter may result in the matter being progressed by the London Underground Prosecutions Departament without further notification."

 

Questions:

1.What is the best way to reply : reverse side of the letter or mail or phone?

 

2.How do I explain them that I was using a second Freedom Pass without involving my father in law for not sending one back(it is all my fault not his)?

 

3.Can someone post here please a link for the apologetic letter sample?

 

4.After I reply and if they decide to start legal proceedings, how long it takes to be called in court?

 

I want this to finish even if they prosecute me-I cannot live with this stress anymore.

Thank you for takng time to read my post and could someone please give me some answers to the above questions?

 

Thanks

[honeybee13]

Hello there. Without identifying anyone, does the letter tell you what London Underground think the problem is, or any legal references please?

 

My best, HB

[introuble74]

No.What you have read is the whole letter HB(except my personal details).

[honeybee13]

No.What you have read is the whole letter HB(except my personal details).

 

Thank you. It doesn't give you a lot to go on, I imagine they're asking for your version of the story. Now we need someone who knows more than me to give you an idea of what to say. We seem to be a bit thin on the ground tonight, please bear with us.

 

My best, HB

[Old-CodJA]

1. In my view it is always best to reply in writing., I would reply on a separate sheet of paper quoting the reference number on the letter and attach a photo copy of the letter that you received if you wish.That way, there is no doubt about what has been said and even better, make sure that you send your response by recorded delivery. This will create an evidence trail to show that you have replied.

 

Most prosecution offices will not discuss the detail of a case by telephone and there are good reasons. When telephoning, there is always scope for confusion or differing interpretations of what has been said. Emails can be helpful, but a personally written letter generally carries more weight in my experience.

 

2. In reality, you can only tell the truth if you hope to stand any chance of getting an early resolution.

 

As I see it, I think it is difficult not to involve your father-in-law in this. If he received a Freedom Pass with the wrong name it was up to him to return it when he applied for a replacement. It seems obvious that he did apply for a replacement, otherwise how come there are two in existence??

 

3. I have suggested several draft letters on various threads, but there is no guarantee that they will always work and where serious matters such as this are concerned, I can only suggest that you are wholly truthful in your reply.

You could send something along these lines, but remember it is important to tell the truth:

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Thank you for your letter Reference No…………

 

I am writing to offer my sincere apology to the company and staff concerned for my actions in using a pass to which I was not entitled. I fully understand that I have broken the rules and am truly remorseful. I write in hope that I may be permitted an opportunity to make good all the losses due by making full payment of the fares and all of the costs incurred by the company in dealing with this matter.

 

This was an uncharacteristic act of stupidity on my part and I have never been in any kind of trouble before. I hope that you will see fit to allow me to maintain my good name and settle this matter without court action

 

Yours sincerely

 

Etc……………..

 

There is absolutely no guarantee that will have the desired effect and the company are never obliged to allow any kind of settlement in these cases, but I suggest it is the best you can do in trying. .

 

4. It is difficult to be specific in answering how long the process takes. It depends on how bysy both the prosecutors office and the courts are. It will be at least a month and they have up to six months from the date of the offence to put the allegation before a court.

 

Once they have got the summons listed and authorised, they will send it to you with a copy of the inspectors statement and any other evidence that they intend to rely on.

 

The summons will tell you what charge is alleged, the date, time and place of the hearing and the papers will include a form for you to enter your plea. There will also be a form MC100 which you will need to fill in stating your financial means.

 

.

[Old-CodJA]

Removed duplication - my apology

[introuble74]

Thanks Old-CodJA.My questions is: Do I give as many details as possible or try to excuse along the lines of above letter you have posted and try to be more apologetic than give to many details.If they send me summons do I have to attend hearing(I have never been in a court and feel so embarrassed) and how much is affecting the outcome if I am not attending.?Thanks again

[introuble74]

Anyone able to assist ,with my above question please ?

[Old-CodJA]

Thanks Old-CodJA.My questions is: Do I give as many details as possible or try to excuse along the lines of above letter you have posted and try to be more apologetic than give to many details.If they send me summons do I have to attend hearing(I have never been in a court and feel so embarrassed) and how much is affecting the outcome if I am not attending.?Thanks again

 

I would stick to being apologetic and not add too many details that might lead a prosecutor to harden their attitude and discount any tiny thoughts they might have regarding settlement

 

If you intend to plead not guilty to a charge, you will ultimately have to attend court for a full trial to take place. Even if you plead guilty, sometimes a court will decide they require the defendant to attend before sentencing, though that is rarely the case with fare evasion matters.

 

If you intend to plead guilty as charged, you may do so by filling in the plea form and MC100 (means enquiry form) that you will receive. You can write a letter giving any mitigation that you want the court to consider and they will take that into account when coming to a decision regarding any penalty

[introuble74]

Thank you very much Old-CodJA.I will plead guilty as I do not want to make things worse.

[sailor sam]

You wont go to prison.

You have a 100% chance of being prosecuted.

 

For the record, I hope they throw the book at you.

 

I agree 100%. I wonder how long the OP would of continued to use the pass had he/she had not been caught? The scheme costs the tax payer an absolute fortune to have in place so it is good to know that fraudulant use is sometimes detected and dealt with accordingly. The original 'incorrect' pass should of been surrendered which is the pass holder's responsibility. I would imagine that the issuing authority will implicate the pass holder into the 'miss-use' scenario due to the fact that the OP is a relative. It follows therefore, that his entitlement may also be withdrawn.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[introuble74]

He thought that by getting the second freedom pass,the first one was deactivated automatically .He only used one pass and I was using the the other pass without telling him(he even forgot about the first one).IT IS ALL MY FAULT.I will pay whatever fine but I need to get his pass back-that is my biggest concern now.

[sailor sam]

He thought that by getting the second freedom pass,the first one was deactivated automatically .He only used one pass and I was using the the other pass without telling him(he even forgot about the first one).IT IS ALL MY FAULT.I will pay whatever fine but I need to get his pass back-that is my biggest concern now.

 

T & Cs will state that the pass (which is the property of the issuing authority) may be withdrawn for miss-use. Obviously this would apply to a pass being used which had been lost or stolen and in which case it would be returned to the rightfull user. However, if the user himself had 'allowed' someone else to benefit from the scheme who were not entitled, then that user would risk loosing the benefit altogether and quite rightly so. The problem you have is that being as you are a relative of the card holder, the prosecution team will possibly make the connection between you and the card holder and deduce that the car holder had ether given you the 'invalid' pass or was aware that you was using it. So it would be for you to prove otherwise. Unfortunately having worked in the public transport industry and knowing who much this scheme costs, I have very little sympothy for your dilemma.

 

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek face to face professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my reputation 'star' button at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice useful.

 

[ashmk]

I think unless you say you stole the card then there is a good chance your inlaw will lose his rights to a card.