advice please on loan, credit card and bank charges - can i claim?

[tifo]

Hi,

 

I have just joined this interesting action group and have a few questions please.

 

1 ... I have 'defaulted' on loans and credit cards within the last 4 years. This is how it started.

 

I became unemployed in 2002/2003 and could not carry on paying my monthly payments for my credit cards and 1 loan company. This meant they put on charges every month, multiplied by the number i had (about 12 at the time).

 

While unemployed i did inform all the companies but they would not let me claim on the payment protection insurance i had with all of them, because they said i had 'annulled' this protection when i did not pay my monthly payment and therefore i have no insurance to claim from now. I had been paying for this insurance for all the time i had the cards (over many years).

 

With the charges and the original amounts, the credit card debts almost doubled and as i could not afford to pay, they went into 'default' and my credit files were updated with this info.

 

The credit card debts (and a few overdrafts and 1 loan) went to an agency as they were now 'assigned' my account. I was told i have no more dealings with the bank.

 

Over the years, some of these agencies have taken me to court and i have had some CCJ's. They also claimed court and solicitors charges, even though the debt amounts were below £5000. One debt agency even got a charge on my property this year.

 

I have been paying most of the debt agencies a nominal amount to keep them happy and always said i cannot afford to pay more, even at court (which us true as i cannot, my income is low).

 

CAN I CLAIM ANY CHARGES THAT I HAVE INCURRED, EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NOT PAID THEM THEY ARE STILL PART IF THE 'DEBT AMOUNT'. I HAVE ALSO 'PAID' COURT COSTS FOR AMOUNTS LESS THAN £5000, and have been paying small amounts for the last few years.

 

WAS I UNFAIRLY TREATED AT THE TIME WHICH LEAD TO MY DEFAULTS AND THE VERY BAD CREDIT HISTORY I HAVE NOW?

 

2 ... I will also look into claiming my bank charges over the past 6 years, but how and where do i get this info, even on now closed accounts? Will the banks happily provide this info for me?

[zootscoot]

Welcome tifo,

 

You can find out the info by sending a SAR. The companies are legally obliged to supply this info under the Data Protection Act.

 

Read the step -by step instructions in the library under the FAQ section which will explain how to go about this. There is a template letter for use in the bank library section.

 

You can claim the charges back where the debt is still outstanding but they will probably apply them straight to the account to reduce your debt.

 

Have a good read around the site before proceeding to make sure you fully understand. Also you might want to have a look in the legalities section for info on dealing with DCAs and removing defaults from your credit file. Although you can not remove CCJs.

 

Hope this helps

 

Zoot

[tifo]

thanks for reply,

 

i have been reading the FAQ's and it looks like i can claim, like everyone else.

 

the credit cards will probably apply the refunds to the account to reduce the balance, but even if they do not, i still will only ever pay a maximum of 25% of the balances anyway, as most are with debt agancies and they keep asking me for a one-off payment of 50% to clear the debt.

 

however, i have paid many charges on current accounts and this money will definately come back to me.

 

i have had one credit card reduced to 30% of the balance and am paying this back at £5 per month, interest free.

 

what i don't understand clearly is the part about my debt being 'sold' to a debt agency. So do i still claim back from the original credit card / loan company or do i dispute with the agency.

 

as i am paying nominal amounts to all the agencies to keep them all happy, any action by me might cancel that 'goodwill' they are showing and they could ask for all the balance to be paid, which i cannot do.

 

i have 'agreed' the balances on the accounts i have the CCJ's on, as i had to do this at the time on the court form, so if i dispute this now without the charges, what is my situation?

[zootscoot]

what i don't understand clearly is the part about my debt being 'sold' to a debt agency. So do i still claim back from the original credit card / loan company or do i dispute with the agency.

 

Claim from the original creditor as they are the ones who applied the charges. Their decision to sell the debt was probably undertaken without your knowledge or permission. The chances are you have in fact paid most of the charges in any event as the banks generally make their charges a pririty debt ie any money you pay goes to discharge their charges before repaying any of the actual debt.

 

If the debt has indeed been sold to the DCAs (be careful though as some DCAs merely act as agents of the original creditors) then dealing with the original creditors will not upset any agreement witht he DCAs.

 

Hope this helps

 

Zoot

[tifo]

hi ..

 

thanks for the reply.

 

some of the debts have definately been sold to the DCA's as i have received 'letters of assignment' from each side, a letter from the bank stating they have sold the debt (without my consent) and a letter from the agency saying they have purchased it.

 

should i first clarify with the agency if they have bought the debt or are acting on behalf of the bank?

 

even if they have purchased the debt, i can still claim my charges back from the banks, and they cannot apply these against the debt as they have since sold it on.

[zootscoot]

should i first clarify with the agency if they have bought the debt or are acting on behalf of the bank?

 

Those which have not stated that they have purchased the debt, it would probably be best to do a CCA request asking for a copy of the original signed agreement and any deed of assignment. There are templates for this. I think they are in the debt collectors and bailiffs forum.

 

even if they have purchased the debt, i can still claim my charges back from the banks, and they cannot apply these against the debt as they have since sold it on.

 

I would have thought so but this is a relatively untested area as of yet. There are a few similar claims in the process. Have a good read through both the legalities section and debt collectors section.

 

Hope this helps

 

Zoot

[tifo]

I posted a question here about claiming credit card and bank charges for accounts that had gone into default and were either being dealt with by debt agencies or had been sold to one. A few are still with the bank concerned. I have CCJ's for 3 of the accounts and the rest are in default. My whole credit score is totally screwed because of the banks and their charges.

 

For the accounts being dealt with by agencies and the banks, i will claim from the banks as they have charged me.

 

My question is - for the accounts that have been sold to agencies, i assume i will claim back from the bank as they are the ones who originally charged me?

 

I want any payments to come direct to me. I can then contact the agencies and offer a repayment proposal (most have written to me with 75% off and a 25% payment, but i want this amount reduced by the bank charges and then offer a maximum 25% of what is remaining). This is because 50% of the current balances are charges anyway.

 

Shall i make a start in the new year, first by requesting info if i cannot find my old statements, and then by the letters etc. maybe leading to court (i am prepared to take it there)?

 

I will be posting all details in the forum if the moderators or users would like to help.

 

I have a total of about 16 creditors, and my charges in total may amount to over £15,000 between them, over a 2 year period a few years ago when i became unemployed and they would not allow me to use my PPI.

 

There is also the charges on my mortgage which i may also claim.

 

Can i claim anything back for all the PPI i paid to all my credit card companies, over many years? This will add another few grand to the claim.

 

Thanks.

 

Latif.

[tifo]

Just another quick question.

 

I was reading a post here in General about requesting a CCA for a copy of the original credit agreement, which they have to send me. If they do not have that, then they do not have a case and i would not have to pay the debt agency and can even get my money back .

 

Shall i ask for this before i start asking for other info under the data protection act or at the same time?

[tifo]

Some of my accounts are with debt agencies and some still with the bank. All have been defaulted and a few also have a CCJ (when the debt agency wanted more than i could afford). If anyone can answer my questions below it would be a great help as i am slightly confused.

 

1. I assume i am claiming from the bank when the debt agency is only dealing with the account on their behalf?

 

2. I assume i am still claiming from the bank even when they have sold the account to a debt agency, because they were the ones who originally charged me? I do not want any payment to go to the debt agency but direct to me, as the bank has sold the debt on and have no more dealings with the debt agency regarding these accounts.

 

3. I can still claim for accounts that have been closed as i have still been charged in the past?

 

4. What is the legality of the bank selling my account to a debt agency without my permission, as applied by the CCA and Data Protection Act? If i start requesting documents from the debt agency who bought the account, what will they have to send me? After all, i have no agreement with them but had one with the bank, only when the bank can now supply a copy for me (i will ask by sending my £1 for a copy of the CCA agreement). If they cannot supply an agreement under the CCA do i owe them anything?

 

5. Should i ask for an agreement copy before i start proceedings by using the CCA. This way if the bank does not supply a copy i can always say i do not owe them anything and also want the total money back that i paid.

 

6. Should i send any requests for repayment to the branch i have the account or the head office or somewhere else?

 

7. When do i add the contractual compound interest, other interest, statutory 8% interest (at court stage). For banks it seems to be charges + 8% at court. For credit cards it seems to be charges + compound interest + another interest + 8% at court. Anyone help please as this is very confusing and i want to get it 100% right.

 

I have been making nominal payments to all my creditors for a few years now, under arrangement through a debt adviser from the council.

 

Thanks.

[Semi]

please someone reply, im in the same boat. need answers to make me confident im doing this properly.

[tifo]

Hi,

 

For a current account, I am wondering if interest can be charged at the beginning of the claim (from the prelim letter) or to add on the 8% statutory if at court?

 

If the bank has been charging me an unauthorised overdraft rate can i then charge this on top of the charges they have taken?

 

I have sent a letter (for a small amount) but am now thinking i should have added interest.

 

But, if they only offer a percentage, then i cannot add the statutory interest at court which is why i left it out initially.

[Mad Nick]

Tifo, all your questions, and more you hadn't thought of, are on here :

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/18313-why-no-one-claiming.html

Long thread, but worth the effort (literally £K potentially). regards, Mad Nick

[tifo]

Hi,

 

I noticed i have wrong info on some of my defaults, but more than that i have some defaults that should be settled but show as outstanding, and some that should not even be there. I have detailed these below and need advice on what to ask for under the Data Protection Act, and especially how much compensation to ask for damage and distress?

 

1. Lowell Group - 1 account, 4 defaults. 2 defaults on Experian by Lowell Portfolio who own the debt and 2 defaults on Equifax by Lowell Financial who do NOT own it but manage it. Secondly, 1 default on Callcredit for same account by Barclays who USED to own the account but sold it and it is shown as outstanding.

 

2. HFC Bank Marbles account. This is shown as settled on Experian and Equifax but still an outstanding default on Callcredit with monthly reporting. It was settled in June 2004.

 

3. NatWest Bank Credit Card. This is still showing as an outstanding default from Natwest on Callcredit with a current balance. The account was sold to Tessera and they also show an outstanding default in their own name. So this is 2 defaults for 1 account.

 

I have a few others but essentially the same situation as number 3 above with the bank/DCA having an outstanding default each.

 

Obviously i will have the default changed to settled with the bank or completely removed, but how much should i ask for as compensation for damage and distress?

 

I am paying £104 per month extra on my mortgage because of defaults as i cannot move to a lower rate. This total £1248 per year and defaults are mostly over 2/3 years old.

 

I cannot ask for all this amount from one bank/DCA because their default only contributes to this but how much then?

 

Thanks for any advice.

[SurlyBonds]

Hi,

 

I noticed i have wrong info on some of my defaults, but more than that i have some defaults that should be settled but show as outstanding, and some that should not even be there. I have detailed these below and need advice on what to ask for under the Data Protection Act, and especially how much compensation to ask for damage and distress?

 

1. Lowell Group - 1 account, 4 defaults. 2 defaults on Experian by Lowell Portfolio who own the debt and 2 defaults on Equifax by Lowell Financial who do NOT own it but manage it. Secondly, 1 default on Callcredit for same account by Barclays who USED to own the account but sold it and it is shown as outstanding.

 

2. HFC Bank Marbles account. This is shown as settled on Experian and Equifax but still an outstanding default on Callcredit with monthly reporting. It was settled in June 2004.

 

3. NatWest Bank Credit Card. This is still showing as an outstanding default from Natwest on Callcredit with a current balance. The account was sold to Tessera and they also show an outstanding default in their own name. So this is 2 defaults for 1 account.

 

I have a few others but essentially the same situation as number 3 above with the bank/DCA having an outstanding default each.

 

Obviously i will have the default changed to settled with the bank or completely removed, but how much should i ask for as compensation for damage and distress?

 

I am paying £104 per month extra on my mortgage because of defaults as i cannot move to a lower rate. This total £1248 per year and defaults are mostly over 2/3 years old.

 

I cannot ask for all this amount from one bank/DCA because their default only contributes to this but how much then?

 

Thanks for any advice.

 

Claiming damages for storing or processing (includes disclosing) prejudicial data is a tricky area, and one which you need to tread very carefully.

 

My advice would be as follows:

1) Contact all the agencies pointing out clearly and factually the information that you claim is inaccurate. Enclose a Statutory Notice that you require them to correct it within the statutory time limit or give their reasons why they are unable to conform to your request. Inform them that you will reserve the right to seek redress for them processing any inaccurate data about you.

 

2) If they reply claiming that they're right (or give you the standard Bog Off letter), then write to them again asking for clarification from the lenders involved - make this their job to prove, not yours. You have no responsibility to prove that the data they hold on you is correct - the responsibility rests entirely with them. If they claim that it's up to YOU to prove they're wrong, remind them that you are not the relevant Data Controller, they are, and therefore have a legal obligation (upheld by the criminal law) to ensure that their data and sources of data are accurate.

 

3) If they accept the error, KEEP THE LETTERS. Then send in an offical complaint form to the I.C.O. with copies of the letters and ask them to confirm and register the error via an official complaint.

 

4) Once you have the I.C.O. answer, then you can go to Court to caim damages, if you think it's worthwhile.

 

However, remember that damages have to proven as specific losses, and may involve a professional expert to back up your claims.

 

Alternatively, you could contact all your other lenders and ask them if you have been placed on any specific interest rate banding because of their prior reference to your previous credit record. In which case, you could ask them to inform you of the rates that you would have been charged (e.g. mortgage interest rate) and work out the difference.

 

Be advised that you need to be very accurate on these types of cases and it is sometimes better to come up with an overall calculation and invite the lenders (who supplied the wrong information) and the CRAs to make you an offer based on those amounts. That is, if the I.C.O. hasn't awarded you a compensation order against the lender/CRA.

 

Also bear in mind that the CRAs might claim a defence in that they were simply processing the data passed to them by the lenders. However, there is enough in English Law to diss such a defence, certainly case law in the way that the lender has severely broken your contract with them. In fact, the I.C.O. has stated such in its own publications.

 

Good luck.

[tifo]

Alternatively, you could contact all your other lenders and ask them if you have been placed on any specific interest rate banding because of their prior reference to your previous credit record. In which case, you could ask them to inform you of the rates that you would have been charged (e.g. mortgage interest rate) and work out the difference.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I have sent letters to Lowell re the 4 defaults as this is definitely a huge mess up on their part. However, i want to reap maximum benefit from the fact that i have 2 outstanding defaults from Lowell Financial who don't even own the debt.

 

I didn't think about writing to the CRA's as i've spoken to Experian and they said contact the company concerned. But your advice above might be an angle.

 

I am paying £104 more on my mortgage and i worked this out based on the rate i am paying now (7.34%) and the lowest rate they have offered over the last 3 years (4.99%), which i could not get because of a bad credit score. Other than my mortgage, i have no other lenders now as i cannot borrow due to my credit score, unless i pay something like 16% on a secured loan!

 

Even though each company's default is not solely responsible for this, it contributes to the overall report.

 

I was thinking of asking for £104 x 36 (3 years) per extra defaults but a more reasonable sum is about £700 per default under the Data Protection Act i think (i've read other members quoting and asking this amount). However, as Lowell have 3 too many i am still entitled to ask a combined £700 x 3.

 

So a removal of the 3 extra defaults and a sum of say £2500 compensation is reasonable in my opinion. However, i am prepared to take this to court.

 

I have passed the matter of Lowell to the OFT and the Information Commissioners Office who are investigating this.

 

A loss of a credit license (unlikely) and a fine of up to £2,500 per default plus costs for Lowell is a lot worse than paying out to me.

[tifo]

hi,

 

i'm confused about which spreadsheet to use for claiming back credit card charges, as Mindzai's is for bank accounts only, there seem to be a few about for credit cards.

 

do i claim contractual compounded interest as well as i am having no luck with this from the banks, they simply offer just the charges and say take it to court for the interest if you like.

 

thanks.

[tifo]

Hi,

 

can i claim back all PPI paid if i ticked the NO box on my application form?

 

i have received back some of these as part of my CCA requests and i notice i ticked the NO to PPI, yet the credit card companies have been charging me.

 

can anyone recommend a spreadsheet for this, as i need to work out the extra interest paid because of PPI and also charge interest on this at the contractual rate.

 

thanks.

[reidnet]

If it is clearly Ticked in the NO Box , I would say Claim it back as they have not a leg to stand on..

 

Good Luck

 

Ian

[tifo]

Hi,

 

I have been using this forum for many months now and initially thought only 8% stat could be claimed at court.

 

Then the big debate started on adding contractual interest to claims re 'fairness and balance' etc so i started asking for this in my prelim letters. I DO understand the concept but in the case of bank contracts it does not seem to uphold itself.

 

This has got me absolutely nowhere and every bank has refused outright to pay ANY interest initially, after they have offered part or full charges back. So, this makes a difficult case at court as i would mean chasing only the contractual interest.

 

Every bank i have spoken to after their offer has said there is absolutely no case for contractual interest and you can take it or leave it. So this then means decision time and it has meant, despite having offers, i am still chasing contractual interest and so have not received a penny yet.

 

I have now gone to the FOS for some of the accounts as they state they can get the same 8% as i would get at court, without the legal expense for me (i can get exemption but don't want to use it and i don't have the funds for multiple claims).

 

So, in the end it means i have been totally disillusioned and confused (as many other people will be) by all the various threads discussing the ins and outs of contractual interest and many members state there IS a case and many state there IS NOT a case for this.

 

I've decided to stop wasting my time, cut my losses and just go for actual charges plus 8% stat. At least its easy to understand and explain at law.

 

The above is just my own opinion to date.

[JustJon]

I totally understand where you're coming from. Personally I think CAG should produce some kind of FAQ or at least explain if CAG supports the concept or not. The fact that its one the most hotly discussed issues on this site yet there is no official mention of it is quite strange.

[isidore]

The main problem is that many have differing opinions on how it works what you can claim, what's included, what's not. I personally don't blame you tifo and I do concur things aren't exactly black and white with this process.

 

That said, the advice is that if you receive 100% offer for charges and debited interest you SHOULD be accepting this which it sounds is different to what you have done.

 

I've said it recently elsewhere but I think the glaring omission from this site is a straightforward user guide to CI - even basic pointers would be better than the hearsay and conflicting advice that runs throughout the forums (in between the knowledgable advice provided by the more learned people on here).

 

In my eyes, the problem is that everyone is encouraged by everyone else to go for CI because some very very very intelligent people have been successful with this argument because look how much bigger your claim could be!! But most don't really look into it in great detail - possibly because there's not a great deal of "detail" around. And none of it is in a centralised location.

 

I must admit, I try to dissuade anyone I come across who says "I'm going for CI" because I don't think it will be a sensible route for most. Quite often, those that disagree with my advice do sound as though they have pound signs in there eyes!

 

I think the main reason for there not being a great deal of formal info on CI is that it is not a surefire thing and there are a number of varying factors. That said, if there are posts around with the title "Why isn't anyone claiming contractual interest" for example which can easily be taken as "YOU should claim CI" (and let's face it, who is going to trapse through 100+ pages? not many!) there should surely be some more concise pointers around as to what you need to do, the process, the pitfalls and some advice. The summarisers of us out there haven't got a hope in hell!!!

 

 

As with, Tifo these are JMHO - I picked on the "Why isn't...." post because that is the first one that sprung to mind, there are plenty more and don't mean to offend by singling this one out, it was just an example.

[isidore]

lol jon we going to follow each other round all day??

[tifo]

thanks T4FF,

 

i know exactly what you mean.

 

i have read the various threads on the topic and the conflicting advice from members.

 

i think the best route for anyone not 100% sure about understanding the contractual interest argument would be just standard 8% stat. I myself do understand maybe 50% of what is said on the subject, and that is after many months of reading!

 

I don't see £ signs when i look at the figures as the amount of time i have spent on all the research and letters etc could be better spent earning money (i work for myself). So, if i lose £1000 income in a month and gain an extra £500 from a bank i have not really won is the way i see it. Believe me, arguing with the DCAs and banks has taken a lot of my time over the past months!

 

i am not refusing the offers i have had as i understand it would be very hard to claim only the CI at court. Even though i have received offers for all my charges from one bank, they are not returning the unauthorised interest they charged me as a result of their own charges which made me overdraw (the charges alone are near £1000 so the unauth interest they charged me is about £100 on top of this which they are refusing to refund).

[JustJon]

lol jon we going to follow each other round all day??

 

Yep. I've got my eye on you.

 

Congrats on your 1000th post BTW.

[the main man]

I have just got to the point of submitting several claims, and having worked out contractual and the standard 8% rate of interest I am another one who is unsure of what to do. Principle is a driving force having been on the receiving end for far to long, (Although the figures do look impressive and money would come in handy!) but I know it will also come at a cost as I am also self employed and principle has cost me money before.

More information on settled claims using CI would be great, maybe a seperate thread?