Hi, I have a "consumer" issue and was wondering if someone here could help me out? I purchased some goods over the internet about 7 weeks ago which I subsequently returned at my own cost due to the them being unsuitable (Too big). The goods were returned within 2 days of receiving them and I have proof that they were received. They were in brand new condition still in boxes with tags etc. The value of these goods was £380. After sending them back I went on holiday for 2 weeks and was expecting the refund to of been done when I returned. It wasn't. I then sent numerous emails which were ignored and then phoned them. When I phoned them I was told that there would be a £30 restocking fee. There is no mention of this on their site or in their terms and conditions so I said I was not prepared to pay the £30. They begrudgingly agreed they would refund the whole amount, but after a week this had still not happened. After many more phone calls and promises that the refund would be done today, tomorrow, on Monday etc they then claimed that they had lost my card details so couldn't refund until I gave them the details again - Which I did. After even more phone calls and promises that the refund would be done today, tomorrow, on Monday etc still no refund. Its getting on for 7 weeks since they received the goods back and still no sign of the money. What should I do?

Thats what I did and I think its fine. You can do it with the average overdrawn balance for that particular charging period. This would probably give you more accurate results but can you be bothered/do you know how to work it out? I couldn't/didn't, but its up to you. Only if your claiming overdraft/debit interest. HTH

Yep. I've got my eye on you. Congrats on your 1000th post BTW.

Yeah well its easy to say that now.

I totally understand where you're coming from. Personally I think CAG should produce some kind of FAQ or at least explain if CAG supports the concept or not. The fact that its one the most hotly discussed issues on this site yet there is no official mention of it is quite strange.

You can, but the rate they used is not really important as the spreadsheets work this out for you. You only really need to know the contractual rate if your claiming contractual interest instead of statutory. The spread sheets work out how much of the debit interest is claimable in relation to your account balance at the time and your previous charges.

You can. The only mixture you can't claim is Statutory + Contractual. Its one or the other. The charges and the debit interest you've been charged on those charges aren't really disputable. This is what the bank has taken illegally from you. You then have to choose if you want to add Contractual interest onto this OR wait until you get to court claim stage and add statutory 8%.

When people talk about contractual interest on this site they are generally talking about the interest which they plan to add on top of the charges and overdraft interest they've been charged. Contractual interest in this sense can not be claimed in addition to statutory interest - Its one or the other. The overdraft or debit interest you've been charged is, although at the contractual rate, generally speaking not what people are referring to when they say contractual interest. You can claim for: 1) Charges taken + 2) The overdraft/debit interest which has been charged on item 1 + 3) Statutory interest at 8% when filing your court claim OR Contractual interest at the contractual rate (Authorised or Unauthorised) from the start HTH

The thing is that they could build "the human element" into the systems if they wanted. Like not charging you if you only go £2.23 over your OD limit. Or not charging you again if the only reason you're being charged is because you've just been charged etc etc.

To be honest you should be thankful he wasn't charged another £35 because there was no money to pay the second one and then another because there was none to pay the third and then another... I could go on. All seems very reasonable to me, after all they're providing you with a service.

Really? Go back and actually read the post Westy from start to finish. See if you can find anything you've missed and then come back and correct that cocky statement you've just made, if thats not too much to ask of you. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- But you missed a bit. Just above the part that you've quoted: The operative part of that paragraph is "from here on in i will refer to these as the bank charges" which changes its meaning quite considerably. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Newbody was describing how most (added) contractural interest claims were small. You then said that yours wasn't small. Do I really need to spell out how that was misleading? -------------------------------------------------------------------------- As it should now be clear where the misunderstanding as come from I presume you will be taking your own advice here. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- I realise thats its probably too much to ask for you to acknowledge any responsibility whatsoever but just think about this for a second: Why do you think people got the wrong end of the stick (again)? Maybe its their fault? No better than that - Maybe its my fault for pointing it out. Anybody but yourself.

Unfortunately it seems it can. In newbody's original post he explained that "option 2" was to claim the charges + debited interest + interest on the whole lot at the authorised contractual rate. He then said that some claims had been won in this way but they were only relatively small claims (All very true). You then responded by saying that you didn't think your claim was small. People then thought you were implying you had won an £11,700 claim which included additional contractual interest, as explained in item 2. Your case was then cited as a successful "large" contractual interest claim (As item 2). I think you'll agree that would give people the wrong impression and can't be a good thing. Anyway, I don't want to get into a long drawn out argument about it. As long as its clear to people reading the thread that a large (£11,700) contractual interest claim has not yet been won AFAIK.

I don't think thats possible. I don't think any court/bank would entertain: 1) Charges + 2) Debit interest + 3) Interest at 17.95% + 4) sec69 interest Westys thread reads to me as item 1: Charges + Debit interest on those charges at the authorised rate + Statutory/sec69 interest at 8%. I don't think there is any additional CI included as your item 2 outlines above. Anyway, probably best if Westy clarifies.

I think Westy's claim was as detailed in item 1. i.e. Charges + Debited interest + Stat.

plus contractual (Statutory)??? Sorry I don't understand that. It can't be both. I don't think Westy did win authorised CI on top of charges and debited interest (as item 2). Did you Westy? If not, its probably not a good idea pointing people there as a successful example of it, particularly considering the claim value. JMO.

Yes you can reclaim the interest the bank has charged you "on the charges". One of the spread sheets can work this out for you. Its generally accepted to use your banks current rate (But you don't even really need to know the rate with the spread sheets because they work it out for you) and if the bank argue its up to them to provide a more accurate figure. If you go over the £5000 mark you can (although you don't have to) sever your claim i.e. claim years 1-3 followed by years 4-6 etc. But you shouldn't be putting the 8% in your claim until you reach the court stage anyway. If you want to charge interest right from the start you have to claim a contractual rate (You'll have to have a look around the site for the pros and cons of this (There are many!)) HTH

You mean regardless of CI? I'm not aware of any, except the one I mentioned above.

As far as I'm aware (and I may be wrong) there has only been 1 CI case which has lost outright (???), but I think there were other details apart from contractual interest which complicated it. I'm not sure if its even been concluded yet or what the actual result was but someone else may be able to point you to it. I think that case in particular was over the £5000 small claims max, so the person in question was responsible for the banks costs. I think that the worse thats happened in any other CI case is that the Judge has awarded 8% instead of CI. I don't know of any other cases which have been lost outright or thrown out due to CI being claimed and I have asked around (If there are any could someone point them out?). I'm sure its very possible the court could award costs against you if your sole reason to be in court was the CI part of the claim (which is not really advisable), but if you're under the £5000 limit and you do the required research then I think the risk is reasonably minimal. I don't think anybody has lost out on their charges due to claiming CI but I may be wrong.

Hi Mindzai and you other knowledgeable people you. I'm using the bank spreadsheet (v1.9) but have some questions about the debit interest portion and specifically the "Account balance at interest date" column. I've posted on the other spreadsheet thread - They were very helpful, but pointed me here if I needed to know more. I've noticed that any positive balance in the "Account balance at interest date" column results in no debit interest being "claimable" for that month - Even though it may of only been a positive balance for that particular day and negative for most of the month. Obviously this is not correct because even if I had only one charge, a portion of the interest in every month after would be claimable regardless of the account balance. I realise that it can't ever be 100% accurate but some months I'm paying £15 in interest, having previously paid £1000 in charges, but because the balance on the day used for the calculation is positive, the sheet calculates that none of this interest is claimable. This is obviously not right and adds up to quite a lot by the end of the 6 years. Now I could just pick a random balance from some point in the month (If I'm correct, -1p would give the highest possible claim amount, so it would pay to get as close to this as possible), but it just doesn't seem very accurate. As I see it, there are a number of ways I could go: 1) Average balance in charging period (Is this even possible to work out? If so how?) 2) Lowest balance in charging period 3) Highest negative balance in charging period (Highest yield - but sort of defeats the point) 4) Balance on last day of charging period 5) Balance on day interest was taken (Opening balance) 6) Balance on day interest was taken (Closing balance) Any advice on which would produce the most accuracy / highest yield would be appreciated. I know the instructions say to use the balance on the day the interest was taken, but this just doesn't seem right. Considering the interest being debited actually applies to the charging period 1 month previous, doesn't this mean its always one month out? Or am I missing something. Anyway, help/advice needed please.

Has anyone actually put the 8% stat in their pre-lim? Did they get it?

Thanks Chezt, you've been very helpful. Theres some "rep" winging its way to you.

Sorry to keep asking questions, but after filling in part of this sheet I've noticed that any positive balance in the "Account balance at interest date" column results in no debit interest being "claimable" for that month - Even though it may of only been a positive balance for that particular day and negative for most of the month. Even if I only have one charge then a portion of the debit interest in every month to follow would be claimable? (Even if it includes positive balances for some of the month). Some early posts in this thread say to use an average balance rather than the balance on a given day and some say to use the lowest balance. Whats the latest advice? Average balance in charging period Lowest balance in charging period Balance on last day of charging period Balance on day charges were taken Which is likely to result in the most interest/be most accurate? Any advice on this would be appreciated as its going to add up to quite a lot and I want to get it as accurate as possible. Thanks.

Also I've just noticed that next to each interest charge it says: Interest to 11th April 2001 (or some other date) - Even though it is actually debited on the 3rd of May 2001 for example. Presumably in this case the 11th of April was the last day in that interest charging period. Would it not be better to use the balance on this date rather than when it actually debited?

Hi chezt, thanks again for your responses. Thanks again for the help.

Hi, I was hoping someone could help me out with a couple of queries with Mindzai's sheet. 1) In the "Account balance at interest date" column - Is this the opening balance on that date or the closing balance? 2) I presume that if the account was overdrawn you would enter a minus figure (i.e. -£562.00) into this column. Is that correct? 3) Is it safe to use the banks "AER" rate for the "APR" section on the sheet, as this is what my bank advertises? Will this still be accurate? A bit of help with this would be appreciated. Thanks.