Where do our donations go?

[edinburghbeerbucket]

Hi Folks,

 

Don't mean to question the integrity of the site, but can you give us a brief outline of where the donations you recieve go to, and who administers such donations?

 

Thanks,

 

Adam.

[livelylad]

Hi Folks,

 

Don't mean to question the integrity of the site, but can you give us a brief outline of where the donations you recieve go to, and who administers such donations?

 

Thanks,

 

Adam.

 

They go to providing this site which benefits all persons trying to get their money back.

[Guest NATTIE]

I know that it has been asked before but the answer is that it goes towards the upkeep of the site.

[edinburghbeerbucket]

Fair enough, but just in the interests of transparency and perhaps even to encourage future donations, maybe we could find out how much is allocated to each expense, and its source? (i.e. £242 web hosting - donations, £137.45 domain name registration - sponsorship, etc etc)

 

Maybe even include what percentage of all bank charges recieved by members get donated to the site?

 

As I said I'm not trying to pick a fight.. it just seems like there might be a lot of cash floating around, and it'd be interesting to see what happens to it. Charities always do the same thing for their donations!

[Thailand]

IMHO this is not neccesary. You can decide to donate what you want - so it doesn't need justifying. If there is a profit of any description - then whats wrong with that anyway?

[edinburghbeerbucket]

If there is a profit of any description - then whats wrong with that anyway?

 

I agree! So what's wrong with letting us know how much profit is made?!

[callumsgran]

As far as i'm aware there isn't any profit as of yet!

dave and bf are constantly upgrading this site due to the ever increasing amount of users joining everyday so all donations are going towards the upkeep of the site!

And i'm sure if a profit was being made no-one on here would begrudge dave and bf a share of it as they started the site with their own money only 8 months ago, and have consequently struggled to keep it going!

The average claim takes 3 months to complete therefore they wouldn't even got any 'donations' in until at least April when i joined and then not everyone donates, so therefore they are still just scraping by!

should the situation change i'm sure we will be the first to know!

[Thailand]

Varied daily costs & varied daily donations. If costs exceed donations, nobody would raise an eyebrow - so should it be any different the other way around? that seems to be the owners risks??

 

JMHO.

[edinburghbeerbucket]

I'm only still replying coz I'm drunk (it's 1:14am here in Phoenix!), but all I'm saying is that I have totally no problems with the guys making a profit from it (and indeed I think they deserve a wee bit of everything we get!), I just want to *know* where the money's going if I'm going to contribute! How much does it cost to keep a website going?

 

e.g. so far approx £3m have been given back to members.

let's (generously!) assume half the members donate 5% to the site

that's £75,000 so far, over 8 months

that's £9,375 per month!

 

Fair enough, I haven't contributed yet, but I'd be far more likely to if I knew how the money was going to help other folk!

 

Like I said, I'm no' picking a fight.. I just might be asking what everyone else wants to know (picked that one up at uni! )

 

Adz.xx

[Bookworm]

The average claim takes 3 months to complete therefore they wouldn't even got any 'donations' in until at least Apri

 

Not forgetting that for quite a few of those months, there were no donations set up, it was the Amazon book token system. The donations buttons is still quite recent.

[BankFodder]

I don't feel that we have any duty to reveal what we receive. Donations are made voluntarily and there is no penalty or criticism of anyone who fails to donate.

There is no duty to donate and there is no right to ask.

 

Contrast that for instance with your bank which forces you to pay extraordinarily high levels of penalties and will apply severe sanctions against you if you do not pay them.

Yet the bank refuses to offer you any explanation of how their charges are made up - and I would venture to say that it never even occurred to you to ask them about their charges until The Consumer Action Group suggested to you that maybe you should.

 

If you think that there is a right to ask about our donations then I would suggest that maybe ther is a similar right for us to require information as to how you spend your money when you get it back.

 

Nonsense, of course.

 

The fact is that people get a benefit which we provide and they decide to share a little of it with the people facilitated the benefit.

 

Contrast that with donating to a regular charity. In that case the donors get no benefit. Worse than that, they suffer as tax-payers because the Charity will have exemptions. For this reason there is a duty of transparency and the donors do have a right to know where their money is going.

 

You have no right to know and we have no duty to tell. You have a right to withold your money and we have a right to withold our service to you.

 

However, we will never withold our service from you for any reason.

 

 

That said, I can tell you that all of the money which we receive is applied to the Group in various ways.

 

Money has been spent on Hosting, domains, trademark registrations, equipment and equipment upgrades, broadband fees, software, accountancy fees (more to come), materials and of course we are saving for the inevitable tax bill.

 

We are also trying to buy in some training courses for our moderators and sitehelpers and we are currently trying to sponsor some academic research in to some of the legal issues involved with a view to publication.

 

It amuses me when I see people calculating our likely "take" on this forum. you aren't the first to have tried it.

 

I'm afraid that you haven't taken human nature into your calculations.

 

First of all you should realise that the amount of money recovered is probably very much greater than reported in our survey. this is because most people who get their money back don't bother to take any further trouble with the site and they certainly don't fill inthe survey.

 

We think that the true recovery figure is in the order of £8 - £10 millions

 

Very few people even bother to say thanks.

 

However, even out of those who are decent enough to complete the survey, very few bother to contribute to us or even give as much as 5%

 

 

I would say that we have received very much less than half of 1% of the declared total recovery figure. My records show that about 540 people have made donations. The number of people who have completed the survey stands at about 2,250. Go figure.

 

No one on the site is getting paid. Neither Dave nor I are drawing any salaries for the time we are putting in and if you check my online status and the times of some of my posts you will soon realise that I am putting in about 120 hours per week in running this site, trying to keep a campaign going and helpiing you get your money back.

 

I can tell you that if I drew even a modest salary for only 40 hours of what I am putting in that I could bankrupt this site.

 

If we did get the proper rate of donations which this site deserved and which properly reflected all of the amount of money recovered from the banks, then I can tell you that in additon to drawing some pay, would could produce a camapign which could bring the whole bank charges mess to a peak within a few months.

 

If we had even 5% of only of declared recoveries, we could take on really skilled full time help so that inividual users could be helped even more closely than they are at the moment, we could run modest advertising campaigns to spread the word and create a general public awareness of the issues and of the the Group which frankly doesn't exist at the moment. This would be in addition to renumerating our eam who at the moment go through the grueling repetition of helping site Users out only because they think that it is the decent thing to do.

 

 

Incidentally, I haven't even begun to discuss such factors as the orginal risks taken to set the site up or the ongoing liabaility risks.

 

By the way, what do you people do to help others in need or challenge bullying institutions or other social contribution when you aren't online here?

[BankFodder]

Fair enough, but just in the interests of transparency and perhaps even to encourage future donations, maybe we could find out how much is allocated to each expense, and its source? (i.e. £242 web hosting - donations, £137.45 domain name registration - sponsorship, etc etc)

 

Maybe even include what percentage of all bank charges recieved by members get donated to the site?

 

As I said I'm not trying to pick a fight.. it just seems like there might be a lot of cash floating around, and it'd be interesting to see what happens to it. Charities always do the same thing for their donations!

 

Just to reiterate, we are not a charity. I think that we do charitable work but the diffrence is that you receive th ebenefit of what we do.

All other charities pass the benefits on to to a third party.

 

It is altogether different and I hope that you can see that

[Thailand]

Varied daily costs & varied daily donations. If costs exceed donations, nobody would raise an eyebrow - so why should it be any different the other way around? that seems to be the owners risks??

 

JMHO.

 

Missed a relevant word out

[sarahpp]

The support this site provides is invaluable. I, for one, will not be forgetting to donate my 5% when I get my bank charges back. I wouldn't have known where to start without this site. I think there is a moral obligation here and to be honest I would be glad if the people who had enough courage in their convictions to go ahead and set up this site did make something out of it other than the satisfaction of a job well done.

 

Bankfodder - as far as social contributions are concerned. I gave up a career in the financial service industry to become a foster carer.

[Number6]

Good post BF.

 

I don't think that there is any malicious intent in edinburghberrbuckets question - it's just naive.

 

It's human nature that under a voluntary regime very few people will donate and that being the case it's a shame. How many people that have got refunds would have got a penny, or even started the reclaim process without the help of this site? I wouldn't have for sure, well maybe 95% for sure. A site like this in very labour intensive to run, apart from the cash requirement as I know from running a very, very much smaller and lower traffic web forum. If the site is so successful and is "earning" large sums of money for others then the owners are fully entitled to take financial recompense for themselves or to spend the income in any way they see fit IMO. The decision to donate is personal and no-one is forced to do so.

 

If more people contributed then maybe BF and friends could employ legal or other help to make this site even more useful and be able to help many more people.

 

Pete

[edinburghbeerbucket]

Fair enough, and a well-made points, but just indulge me in a couple of comebacks!

 

The fact is that people get a benefit which we provide and they decide to share a little of it with the people facilitated the benefit.

 

Contrast that with donating to a regular charity. In that case the donors get no benefit. Worse than that, they suffer as tax-payers because the Charity will have exemptions. For this reason there is a duty of transparency and the donors do have a right to know where their money is going.

 

You have no right to know and we have no duty to tell. You have a right to withold your money and we have a right to withold our service to you.

All taken on board. But as I said, members are more likely to donate to a transparent cause than a non-transparent one. I'm sure many people have been stung by charity scams. And while I appreciate this isn't a charity nor a [problem], still, a little information goes a long way.

 

 

We are also trying to buy in some training courses for our moderators and sitehelpers and we are currently trying to sponsor some academic research in to some of the legal issues involved with a view to publication.

I love this idea, and encourage it. A full-time lawyer might even be an ambition.

 

It amuses me when I see people calculating our likely "take" on this forum. you aren't the first to have tried it.

 

I'm afraid that you haven't taken human nature into your calculations.

I tried to make it as obvious as I could that I was in no way basing my figures on the actual numbers that come out of this site. Sorry if it didn't work.

 

By the way, what do you people do to help others in need or challenge bullying institutions or other social contribution when you aren't online here?

Personally? Not for here, I'm afraid! But I'm sure other members are involved in charitable organisations and pass on this information to their family and friends, as an example. This site is a Socialist's partyground!

[BankFodder]

a little information goes a long way.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope that it does because it is all I have to say on the matter.

[edinburghbeerbucket]

...it's just naive.

Naieve is correct... It's a natural curiosity to find that my £1, £10, £100 or whatever is going to drill a well, give a man some fishing nets or host a website for 1 month.

 

I hope that it does because it is all I have to say on the matter.

Respectfully acknowledged. But I and the rest of the class are still hankerin' for answers!!!

[Thailand]

I'm not and I will donate on my neighbours claim the minute it clears (or rather he will) I will donate when other victories roll in.

[edinburghbeerbucket]

I'm not and I will donate on my neighbours claim the minute it clears (or rather he will) I will donate when other victories roll in.

I don't understand, but "the class" was supposed to refer to an earlier post.

 

*gets worried that lack of non-verbal clues are affecting the portrayal of his ironic sense of humor*

 

Just to clarify, I totally support the work that this site and its founders and moderators do, and I in no way begrudge the founders any financial gain brought about by the operation of this site now or in the future.

 

This is a sucessful anti-capitalist community and long may it and its members survive.

 

I fully support the work of the members here, and hope that I may contribute sometime soon or in the future. All reciprocal support is welcomed.

[Thailand]

I don't understand, but "the class" was supposed to refer to an earlier post.

 

Your still drinking and I'm hungover;)

[edinburghbeerbucket]

Your still drinking and I'm hungover;)

 

*puts beer down and goes to bed, remembering that wifey promised a trip to the gym tomorrow*

 

aaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!

[dave]

Respectfully acknowledged. But I and the rest of the class are still hankerin' for answers!!!

 

I thought that BF had already provided you with an answer:

 

That said, I can tell you that all of the money which we receive is applied to the Group in various ways.

 

Money has been spent on Hosting, domains, trademark registrations, equipment and equipment upgrades, broadband fees, software, accountancy fees (more to come), materials and of course we are saving for the inevitable tax bill.

 

We are also trying to buy in some training courses for our moderators and sitehelpers and we are currently trying to sponsor some academic research in to some of the legal issues involved with a view to publication.

[livelylad]

I thought that BF had already provided you with an answer:

why are we even bothering to have this discussion, Close this thread please.

[jamesrouse]

If your that botherd and want to know how much money this site makes and uses

 

you'll have to wait till they file there account or return on line.

 

but to be honest if dave and bankfodder can eventually make enough money for them to take a wage fair play to them, this site deserves a lot of thanks from all the users who have got there money back.