stevensdrake just sent court claim

[docker1]

Hi guys,

any advice would be greatly appriciated, I have just recieved a court claim from stevensdrake (from credit corp aus)

I've followed all advice on the forums til now, Ive denied all knowledge of the debt and even sent a letter of complaint to the office of fair trading. I;ve never even spoken to these guys. When creditcorp started hassling me back in august i totally ignored them they have only spoken to my wife and never acknowledged that i am the correct person.

 

But yesterday i recieved a court claim, What do i do now?

Advice please

[cerberusalert]

Sorry about your original thread disappearing... I pressed the wrong button.

 

I've asked creditcorptrouble to look in on your post, but in the meantime can you post up the documents after removing any identifiers?

[cerberusalert]

With regard to Jurisdiction, it is possible that an Australian contract can be enforced in a UK court if the UK court is deemed to be the appropriate forum to hear the case. Given that the debtor is a UK resident, it could be argued that a UK court is the appropriate forum.

 

Regardless of Jurisdiction, any contract between an Australian financial institution and a (then) Australian resident, signed in Australia is subject to Australian Law.

 

A creditor would have to sue in a UK under Australian Law, which is not the easiest, or cheapest option.

 

As the alleged debt is covered under Australian Law, the creditor would need to be a member of an Australian financial ombudsman service (there are two: FOS and COSL). Simply disputing the debt with the ombudsman service is going to delay anything for months at least. There are a lot of things a creditor has to do under Australian Law to enforce a judgement in court, not least issue a Section 80 letter before commencing any actions.

 

Anyone interested in reading up should google "ASIC debt collection", "Section 80", "UCCC".

 

New laws brought in on 1st July 2010 make it even more difficult for Australian Debt Collectors.

The above is what I was trying to post into your thread before it disappeared.

[creditcorptrouble]

Yes, need to look at the claim form and Particulars of Claim please, quickly.

[docker1]

sorry, scanner on the blink will post it in the morning.

thanks guys for helping me with this, can they take me to court? i don't have the money that they are looking for, what could happen if it did go to court?

[creditcorptrouble]

It's easy enough to draft a defence in an effort to stay proceedings. How much are we talking about and what was the alleged date of the default? Stevens Drake (who are no doubt watching!) will be hoping you simply don't respond and obtain default judgment - that's why it's important that you file a defence.

 

For now, don't forget to file the Ackowledgement of Service (argh I still can't post links!): triple w dot inbrief.co.uk[slash]preparing-for-trial[slash]acknowlegment-service-n9 dot htm

[cerberusalert]

http://www.inbrief.co.uk/preparing-for-trial/acknowlegment-service-n9.htm

[docker1]

aus $20,753 now its £13,967.

Alleged date of default dec 2008.

I haven't checed my aus credit report should i still do that? From reading the other posts it does just seem they can do what they want,

[creditcorptrouble]

It costs you nothing to file a defence stating that you challenge jurisdiction, that the claim is ineffective due to no Section 80 notice being served (ineffective assignment), that there is no binding contract between you and the claimant etc etc and that they are put to strict proof.

 

They rarely hold proper documents to show a binding contract. The Australian courts are a bit looser with disclosure but the requirements in the UK are a lot stricter. Start fighting it and fire of a WP letter to Stevens Drake offering them to discontinue on a bear own costs basis in default of which you will seek costs if they continue.

 

You need to at least have full disclosure of documents from the claimant before you can even file a proper defence (for now you can file the best defence you can and then amend later). At very least you can rack up Stevens Drake's costs, as things rumble along a commercial decision may be made to drop it, or you can put in a formal offer pursuant to Part 36 CPR and put them at costs risks.

[creditcorptrouble]

Oh and request a breakdown as to how they have calculated the debt, when I got a letter asking for payment, the exchange rate used was most interesting. By my calculation A$20,753 is only GBP12,675. Remember the exchange rate is not in your favour at the moment, so delaying things may help. The debt should be converted to GBP on the date of judgment, so even if you lose if the exchange rate improves to what it was a year ago, the debt would be GBP12,509 - to what it was 2 yrs ago - just GBP9,744.

 

So if you can at least delay things by filing a defence and going through the disclosure process (which will be lengthy as delays through communication and notoriously poorly kept records) things can easily improve your exposure. It wouldn't surprise me that this sudden increase in attempting to collect Australian debts is in an effort to take advantage of the exchange rate.

 

Caveat: Of course, the exchange rate could get worse!

[creditcorptrouble]

Oh and yes, get your Australian credit report (they know where you are now anyway). If they have obtained judgment in Australia already, it will show up on the report, you can obtain a copy of the judgment and then put forward the absolute defence of res judicata http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Res_judicata

 

Hooray I can post links.

[krios]

Lets see if i got this right? From reading this and other threads Please correct anything i have wrong

 

Credit corp. Aus, a company that has on a number of times broken the law in their own country and it seems totally ignore their own guidelines pursue business and harass people here in the uk even though they are not registered to carry out their questionable activities here in the uk.

They are therefore acting illegally here?

 

Stevens Drake solicitors act on behalf of a company that carries out illegal activities here in the uk?

 

To peruse a foreign debt here in the uk under the reciprocal agreements act a judgment must first be awarded and registered through a court in Aus?

 

Stevens Drake Solicitors commence court proceedings through the county court (usually Brighton?) to recover a debt even though there is no foreign judgment?

They commence court proceedings using Australian law? even though the office of fair trading have advised against this, even Scottish law is not acceptable?

 

Brighton County Court knowingly? accept proceedings even though they have no jurisdiction in these matters?

If even one of the above questions is correct some serious questions need to be asked and complaints be made to the appropriate office responsible for regulating these people

Office of Fair Trading?

Law society?

Where would one request information or complain about the activities of a county court?

Complaints to MP?

[docker1]

hope this has scanned okay!

And yes Krios everything you said is true, I have already complained to the OFT in january but stevensdrake have still gone to the courts so it seems as though they so what they want, but i will be fighting this all the way.

Edited March 19, 2011 by cerberusalert

[docker1]

try again!!

Edited March 19, 2011 by cerberusalert

[cerberusalert]

Can you put them in a zip file & upload them? Until you have 20 posts I'm afraid you can't post images.

[docker1]

here goes!!

 

Edited March 19, 2011 by cerberusalert

[cerberusalert]

There uploaded o,k.

 

CCJs aren't my field so I hope creditcorptrouble can cast some light on it + I've asked a couple of others to look in.

[cerberusalert]

I've edited & enhanced the files to make them more readable.

[cerberusalert]

They've even admitted in para 1 of the POC that it's out of jurisdiction.

[creditcorptrouble]

Yes they can issue out of jurisdiction, as long as they haven't onbtained a judgment in Australia. Get your credit file from Australia to check this - they have been known to seek legal remedies more than once which is an abuse of process.

 

Have you received a Section 80 notice? If not put that in the defence and state that the assignment is ineffective. Deny the debt and check the exchange rate at oanda.com to ensure that it is being calculated correctly. The Particulars of Claim are not detailed enough for you to respond to so lodge a defence answering each paragraph with your answer. If the particulars are inadequate, say so. You also at the same time need to lodge a Part 18 request on them. You need to ask:

 

Was a Section 80 notice served, if so, when?

What was the alleged date of default?

What was the date of assignment of the debt?

 

And anything else that you think might help you. A good guide to Part 18 can be found here: http://www.pinsentmasons.com/PDF/RequestsforFurtherInformation.pdf

 

The last one is very important as between certain dates they were not licensed to collect debts - see http://www.creditcorptrouble.com/ccp.pdf - if you fall within those dates I would argue to the court that the assignment was illegal as the company is based in New South Wales and did not hold the requisite licence to even collect this debt.

 

Here is an example paragraph to the Particulars of Claim that you would expect to see in a Defence:

 

3. As to paragraph 3 of the Particulars of Claim, the Defendant is unable to meaningfully respond as further and better particulars are required. The alleged date of default has not been stated, and in the absence of disclosure, the Defendant is unable to admit or deny this allegation, but asserts that the claim is statute-barred. The Defendant will be serving a Part 18 request and reserves the right to file an amended Defence once the Claimant has properly particularised their claim.

 

You get the drift? Just deal with each paragraph one at a time and make it clear that you're requesting further information so that orders for disclosure and Part 18 requests will be put down. If you're lucky, they won't have the documents to support it. State that you are unable to admit or deny that any contract subsists until disclosure has been made. If you asked for your credit contract or other details before they issued, then say so in your defence. Disclosure of documents will always be critical in these types of cases because often there is no documentation and they're just trying it on. If there is documentation, then you want to see it. It may very well have a clause that states that it is agreed that any proceedings will be issued in a certain state, for example, my mortgage says Queensland is where proceedings will be issued.

 

At the initial directions hearing, I would ask for a two month stay so that you can obtain records from the Australian credit reporting agencies as you believe that there is a possibility that proceeings may have already been issued in Australia and that you need to check up on that.

 

Obviously all of the above is not legal advice as I am not a legal practitioner, it is merely for the purposes of discussion. I would like to assist you further privately with forms etc but I do work full time and study part time so it's hard - but if you get stuck send me a PM.

[creditcorptrouble]

For what it's worth, A$20,753.46 was worth GBP13,094.60 at the interbank rate on 14/3, so I would state that the interest has been over-calculated or inflated.

 

Forgot to mention that you should ask for it to be transferred to your local county court, if Horsham is inconvenient.

[cerberusalert]

I've moved this to the Legal Forum so the legal wallahs can cast an eye over it.

[docker1]

Thanks creditcorptrouble for your invaluable advise,

I am cracking on with all these letters at the moment, Can i just check a couple of things with you, what did you mean when you said fire off a WP letter to stevensdrake, and i take it i sent the part 18 request letter to stevensdrake seperatly.

Thanks again

[creditcorptrouble]

If you feel as though you owe them something, make them a low offer (say one third of the amount claimed) but mark it "without prejudice save as to costs" and make sure that states that the offer is pursuant to Part 36 see http://www.pinsentmasons.com/PDF/Part36offerstosettle.pdf

 

If you don't think you owe them anything then make the same offer but the offer is for them to discontinue proceedings on the basis that each party bears its own costs. It should still be Part 36.

 

At very minimum you should do the latter, because if you get solicitors involved later, and SD fail in their claim then the costs that you have incurred will be fully recoverable.

[docker1]

okay so AOS gone off today to the courts and part 18 letter gone to stevensdrake. Fingers crossed that this will stall stevensdrake for a while. I'll keep you informed of new updates as they happen. Thanks for the support guys.