Australian credit card company chasing me in UK after nearly 6 years - threatening letters

[minky47]

Hello William 415, thanks so much for your encouragement and support. Cerberus has been so wonderful and now to get another big smile and helping hand from another 'friend' out there really lifts my spirits. I have been reading other posts and hope to help others in this way too, and will definitely be donating to this site. Yes, I can confirm the company is as you say - exactly those people. It was a relief to see their name written down, and to know that there are others in my situation too. I am probably the banks number one arch enemy, and am very political in my antipathy of them and any corporate bully for that matter. Would join any organisation that supports ordinary people, to fight these bullies. I will fight these morons ceaselessly, and unearth every last piece of amunition to foil their bullying attempts. I am also a journalist and perhaps I should write something about what's going on here - it's just a thought. A few years ago, I managed to bring the press to bear on the Home Office - an immigration issue, and got them to change their mind - quite a feat.

 

I would like to help others, so a lot of good is coming out of this. My number one pet hate is corporate bullies and I will do anyting to bring them down.

 

Thank you for listening and responding. Thanks to Cerberus too.

[minky47]

Thanks so much Cerberus, I have clicked on the asterisk - hope it's worked. I will be using your letter. I will let you know it goes, and when I get a reply I will scan it and put it up on this site. Warm wishes. Mink.

[minky47]

I want to donate some money to CAG - would prefer to send a cheque. Where best to send it to?

Edited February 3, 2011 by minky47
didn't like my reference to a certain organisation

[cerberusalert]

I want to donate some money to CAG - would prefer to send a cheque. Where best to send it to?

 

I've sent you the details by private message.

[minky47]

Thanks Cerberus. I got your message and will send off a cheque.

 

Sorry to be a pain, but in the paperwork they sent me, there was a letter from this debt collection in Oz - who they are supposedly working for - they are properly linked up somehow -OMG - which was a letter stating it was applying to get a summons to prosecute but no letters after that. Should I try and find out from the Magistrates Court in Victoria whether there was a trial back in 2006 - when this letter was dated? I have info on how to do that.

 

I am going to send your letter, what if they come back with a copy of the original credit agreement - what then? Can I really spin this out until August this year? I will try.

 

If they have tried me in Oz in my absence, can this legal firm then really try and get a CCJ and order against me - using my house - turning an unsecured debt into a secured one against my house? It seems ridiculous.

 

Would I have to sell my house. My mortgage record here is faultless - (I learned my lesson) - but surely for a sum so small - a UK court can't force me to sell my house. It all seems too Big Brother and Hollywood to be real.

 

What are your thoughts? Cheers.

[cerberusalert]

Should I try and find out from the Magistrates Court in Victoria whether there was a trial back in 2006 - when this letter was dated? I have info on how to do that.

You could do but you'll probably draw a blank. Besides even if there is you'll probably be able to get it set-aside in any case.

Can I really spin this out until August this year?

Yes.

Would I have to sell my house.

Even in the worse case scenario and any CCJ was awarded in the UK (which is highly unlikely) you would be able in the majority of cases to make payment by installments. It is only if you default on the CCJ that they would be able to apply for a Charging Order on any property and even then they could not force the sale. They would need to apply for your bankruptcy and given the cost to them compared to the alleged amount owed it is not economically viable.

[minky47]

Thanks Cerberus, that makes sense. Many, many thanks.

[minky47]

Hi Cerberus,

 

Have been getting myself in a bit of a state over all this - good though, because I have decided to get to the bottom of what these monkeys can and can't do.

 

I decided to go to the source - so I contacted the CCJ registry and I asked them if an Australian unsecured credit card debt that is nearly SB'd can be enforced through a CCJ in the Uk against a UK resident. Will post their answer when I get it. Failing an urgent reply will call them on Monday and post their response here.

 

I have also decided to do some digging on Australian credit agreements - by going online and searching out the limitations of powers to enforce in other countries. I have been reading the brilliant postings on my situation reversed about UK debt being chased in Aus - listed on this site - and have come away with some interesting bits from there. Thank you all posters.

 

I want a simple answer to a simple question: can an unsecured credit agreement signed under Australian law be enforced and collected in any other country? I will get that answer and will post. I will get perspectives from UK and OZ and post here.

 

Australian law - while seeming to be similar to UK law - must have its limitations in terms of implementation, otherwise every citizen of the western world would be subject to every law of every country in the western world.

 

I have also done some searching on the monkeys that are chasing me, and will continue to unearth stuff. I know they are acting illegally - yet they are a law firm. I have threatened to report them to the Law Society and I will do this.

 

Their letters claiming they have a right to get a CCJ put against me and then apply for a charging order is a total nonsense and fiction.

 

Even looking into CCJs today online - makes a mockery of what they have threatened. It's time to contact OFT and Trading Standards and the Law Society. If everyone who is being contacted by these creeps does this, then it will help empower more vulnerable people who are being bullied by them.

 

I am really looking forward to sending them my own threatening letter - which cites all the laws they are breaking according to OFT, Direct Gov.co. uk and other sites.

 

I am starting to enjoy all this, and am looking forward to posting all the material I have found here on this site.

 

Just wanted to say once again, thanks to you, for empowering me with enough knowledge to further my battle. If all this info helps others, then all this research time will be worth it.

 

Thanks Cerberus.

[cerberusalert]

This particular forum on CAG is relatively new so any information is gratefully received.

[William415]

Go Minky!!!

 

Since I'm being chased by the same jack-wagons, I can't wait to see how this turns out.

 

Good luck.

 

W.

[minky47]

Hi Cerberus and William, I sent off Cerberus's letter this week and received a reply which I have scanned and want to attach here but can't see how to attach it. I did ask you before but can't find your reply. Sorry. Could you let me know again? Cheers.

 

I also contacted Consumer Law Australia who were very nice but said they couldn't help anyone who wasn't a resident of Victoria, Australia.

 

I also emailed the Melbourne Magistrates Court - after doing a big search on where to go - and asked them if Court Judgements for debt were listed in a public domain on their site. I emailed under a false name.

 

Unfortunately the clerk who responded said they had performed a search of their records under the (false name) I had given and nothing had come up. Wasn't expecting this. The clerk didn't answer my question just did a search -without my permission which was a bit worrying - but still, at least it means you can go to the magistrate courts and ask - without looking at your VEDA file.

 

I have been reading other threads here about overseas debt being enforceable in the UK - all very interesting.

 

If I can put up the letter from Stevens Drake, it would be good to get a view on what they plan to do next.

 

The letters they sent me a few weeks ago included one from Credit Corp dated 2006 - which I never received because it was sent to my old address and I was working and living out of the country at the time which said they intended to issue proceedings against me. This f***** cat and mouse game is really starting to get on my nerves.

 

I seriously don't believe for a minute they can do anything so I have stopped worrying, but as they say never say never - so it would be good to get some feedback.

 

I tried to call the legal aid office in the UK to ask them about all this but they wanted so much personal information for a general enquiry that I just declined to continue with the conversation.

 

I would like to be able to consult a solicitor but can't really afford to at the moment.

 

It seems that administrative clerks in the UK and Aus don't know the intricacies of the law - fair enough - and it appears there are all sorts of differing opinions on enforcing overseas debt in the UK - on the internet etc.

 

Who to believe?

 

Common sense tells me that chasing down debt probably happens when the sums are in the hundreds of thousands, but am I living in hope?

 

Stevens Drakes have written out-and out lies in their letters to me - proven simply by making phone calls to ascertain the truth of their claims from people like the UK CCJ registry etc so given their track record, it stands to reason that these tactics are used regularly to bully and scare.

 

Sorry about asking how to attach a file again. Am just having a techno-void moment. Minky

[cerberusalert]

Have aread of this post http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?250889-Can-I-Be-Sued-For-An-Overseas-Debt&p=3294071&viewfull=1#post3294071 it includes a link which will be of interest to you.

 

To post an image upload it first to a hosting site such as http://tinypic.com/ and then copy & paste the url back here and your document will appear.

[minky47]

Hi Cerberus, thanks very much for the advice. I have been reading the links you refer to, and have got a great deal of comfort from it. I have been following William's posts too, and am extremely glad it's all working out for him - wish him every success - same too to all in the same predicament.

 

The link to the scanned page is below. Hope it works. The bottom line with all this - and this is certainly what I have learned from reading everyone's posts is that we all have to fight, and forums like this are wonderful in our attempts to empower ourselves. Information is power. Hope CAG received my cheque - anyway, if you have any advice re: this stupid letter received from SD - I am forever endebted to you and CAG. Best wishes, Minky

 

[attachment removed]

Edited May 31, 2011 by alanfromderby

[minky47]

Hi again Cerberus, based on the information posted up from other CAG-gers, even if they send me a version of the credit agreement from Oz, I will not acknowledge it and I think I will go down the route of another CAG-er who said they demanded to know the exact grounds they - SD - feel they can implement such action - ie transferring a unsecured debt from Oz to the UK? I am also going to look into the privacy laws -data protection etc from the OZ side and make complaints.

 

I want to threaten SD and Credit Corp as much as they have threatened me. There is nothing I hate more than bullies. I am not a violent person, but bullies of any sort - whether they be corporate or otherwise make me feel violently angry, and I will fight them to the proverbial death.

 

I am going to make a complaint to the UK Law Society by email, and I want to CC - SD in, to get up their nose. Do you think this is the right tactic or should I just send a hard copy letter to the Law Society? Any advice? Best, Minky.

[cerberusalert]

Well... they'e admitted it's an Oz contract, so how do they intend to enforce it out of jurisdiction? Muppets that they are.

[cerberusalert]

I don't know whether you've read this thread http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?221573-UK-debt-being-Chased-in-Australia it's 26 pages long, but Creditcorp features quite a lot, especially towards the latter pages.

[minky47]

Definitely, and harking back to one of their former letters - sent late last year - when I asked for original proof of the debt - they replied that they didn't have the originals, just copies - the 'copies' they sent me were just statements which I refused to acknowledge. In my opinion they could be forgeries. I told them I would need to see an original or I wouldn't talk to them. I will look at the link you sent through. Thanks a million. Best wishes, Minky

[creditcorptrouble]

I have a great deal of experience in this particular area. Firstly, an Australian judgment needs to be obtained. There are great restrictions on whether service is valid as outlined in the Service and Execution of Process Act.

 

Once the Australian judgment is obtained, it must be registered in the High Court (England and Wales, for the avoidance of doubt) and then enforced.

 

The entire process is very lengthy, complicated and expensive. I had a Welsh debt collection agency chasing me for A$40K of business debts and I just kept telling them that in my view it was statute barred. After a while they just gave up. The communications flying backwards and forwards from one side of the world to the other only serve to assist you with time delays.

 

I don't think I've posted enough items on here to post a link but you can find some interesting details about licensing of Credit Corp at http://www.CreditCorpTrouble.com (link added by cerberusalert) - You may be able to muddy the waters and create extra delays by arguing that they were not licensed during the relevant period.

 

In order for the assignment to be effective, you need to have been served with a Section 80 notice, if not, write to the UK solicitors requesting a copy of the Section 80 notice as until you receive it, the assignment is ineffective. Maintain your position of not acknowledging the debt or making any payment, the 6 year clock will start ticking again. I would even state in each and every letter "For the avoidance of doubt the debt alleged is not acknowleged as being owed and is statute barred in any event."

 

For the sort of money they're talking about they're just hoping for some sort of offer. An Australian CCJ or default cannot be recorded on your UK credit file - I've been down that path so put your mind at rest. Keep up the communication with them, but slow it down so that you can get over that August deadline. They can't issue proceedings in the UK for an Australian debt, the County Court simply doesn't have the jurisdiction.

 

PM me if you want some assistance.

Edited March 14, 2011 by cerberusalert

[creditcorptrouble]

I should disclose that I run the creditcorptrouble.com website - should have mentioned that so that everybody knows the source!

 

http://www.CreditCorpTrouble.com (link added by cerberusalert)

Edited March 14, 2011 by cerberusalert

[minky47]

Hi Creditcorptrouble, firstly thank you very much for your detailed and helpful response. I have read many of your posts under other threads and have gained a lot of inspiration and peace of mind from them, so thanks again for responding to me directly.

 

Everything you say makes perfect sense to me. I am not a lawyer but have a sort of unofficial career as a fighter of rights and have successfully challenged a few legal cases representing myself and a family members over the years have amassed quite a lot of legal knowledge in the process.

 

Common sense tells me that you are absolutely right in what you say - and you obviously have been through all of this - so thank you for sharing your experiences.

 

Where I am at now with these monkeys is that I challenged Stevens Drake - the debt collectors/solicitors in the UK - while not owning up to anything - I never will - I asked them to send me the absolute original credit agreement - supposedly signed by me in Australia in 2003. I also said that I will be reporting them to the OFT for harassment. I have contacted the Law Society and asked them about making a complaint about SD and received informtion about how to do this. I have told SD about this and what I am doing.

 

I basically told SD - you give me absolute proof otherwise I will not talk to you. Threatening them with action against them because they did threaten to go after my house made me feel strong and empowered against their crap.

 

CerberusAlert from this site was brilliant and helped me with a letter, but I amended it to make it much stronger, and told them they were basically committing an offence by trying to get money out of me without any proof that I owned the debt.

 

SD had sent me copies of statements and copies of letters from Creditcorp dating back to 2006 - which I never received because I had left the country and I laughed at SD saying this was not proof, I need an original credit agreement.#

 

SD came back to me and said they would get this original credit agreement and send it to me shortly. This was a month ago. I am watching and waiting for the post, but I don't believe they will be able to get an original credit agreement as they are monkeys working for Credit Corp and Credit Corp bought the small debt from Westpac in Australia.

 

If they do magically give me an original credit agreement, I will consider what to do, but I will use the information you and others have given me to challenge it all. I will never acknowledge the debt but I will ask them for legal proof that they can lodge a CCJ against me in the UK based on an Australian debt.

 

It's just a question of one step at a time.

 

I really hope that these posts give people the power in themselves to challenge anything anyone ever says to them, and stand up for themselves. I really hope that people realise that they have rights and just because they get a letter in the post saying you owe me this amount of money they DO NOT HAVE TO PAY!!!!!!

 

I will keep checking this site and will post up the reply SD gives me when they send the original credit agreement signed in 2003 in Australia. Then the fun will start.

 

Thanks, Minky47

[creditcorptrouble]

In order to prove their case in court, and the burden is on them, the agreement, or a copy will have to be produced, together with proof that the agreement has been breached. It's not that difficult. If the contract and its accompanying terms and conditions cannot be produced, then they will have difficulty in proving their case. Perhaps they need to be reminded that "these documents would be the subject of ordinary disclosure in any event, and in the interest of saving court costs, please disclose them now, in default of which this correspondence will produced on the question of costs."

[krios]

Just wondering if Stevens Drake have or need a credit licence from the OFT? They do offer debt collection services on their website, and they work in that field so i would think they do?

 

Also can anyone tell me if someone complains to the financial ombudsman about a bank etc the bank or whatever has to pay a fee to the financial ombudsman. Does the same happen if someone makes a complaint to the law society? Or in the case of an aus dca the ASIC?

[creditcorptrouble]

Stevens Drake may be required to be licensed, but it may also be that they don't as they are also a firm of solicitors so may be exempt.

 

If a complaint is made to the Australian FOS, the company you are complaining about is charged for the complaint. There is no such charge if you complain to the Law Society, but I can tell you, from working at firms in the UK and Australia, the last thing a solicitor wants is a formal complaint. They are incredibly time consuming and burdensome and require a detailed response. Word gets around the office quite quickly and it can be a professional embarrassment. That bveing said, you need to have a valid complaint.

 

ASIC do not charge when a complaint is made, but they will also not let you know the outcome of your complaint. My discussions with ASIC regarding Credit Corp are that they are building up a collection of complaints and then intend to deal with the company once a sufficient number of complaints have been received (that may have already happened). ASIC are actively encouraging the lodging of complaints concernign Credit Corp, so complain away.

[minky47]

Hiya, SD is back chasing me. Received a letter today which said that there is no proof I own the debt because the account was opened online. They also say that because they have sent me bank statements they know I own the debt and I have to pay up. These people make me spit. 3 months to go before it's statute barred. It's for such a pathetic amount of money. Any advice on what I should do now? I want to bring out the big guns and tell them I am going to report them to a)the police, b)the law society, c) OFT d)all three, for harrassment. I can't believe they are continuing when they have got no proof and this has been going on since the end of last year. Any advice? Thanks.

[cerberusalert]

Just keep brazening it out and ignore them.