Australian credit card company chasing me in UK after nearly 6 years - threatening letters

[minky47]

Hi everyone, I would appreciate some help. I had an unsecured credit card in Australia which I took out in 2004, and stopped paying in March 2005, then left the country. Now, a UK solictor - supposedly acting on behalf of an Australian debt collection company - who I have never heard of - is chasing me and threatening to get a CCJ applied against me and my house - effectively making this unsecured debt a secured debt against my house. I have refused to acknowledge the debt and have asked them to send me proof of the debt which they haven't done, but they don't stop.

 

It will be six years in March 2011 when I last used the credit card. Since then I am sure interest payments have been applied to the card, plus defaults charges etc etc.

 

My question is why are they chasing me now? How is it possible that an unsecured debt in another country can become a secured debt in the country where I am now resident.

 

If this is possible how long does it take?

 

What about the six year rule? Does this apply if they keep adding interest payments and default charges to the card - which is what I imagined would have happened?

 

The debt is also not much really - just a couple of thousand Australian dollars.

 

How can I find out if this credit agency has bought the debt from the credit card company at a cut price, and is now trying to get back big time with profits.

 

Can anyone help? Much appreciated.

 

[cerberusalert]

Now, a UK solictor - supposedly acting on behalf of an Australian debt collection company - who I have never heard of - is chasing me and threatening to get a CCJ applied against me and my house

No can do... they would need to have obtained a judgement in Oz first & then they would have to apply to a UK court for permission to enforce. Who are these muppets?

What about the six year rule?

Depending in which State you lived in Oz would determine the length of time before it becomes Statute Barred... some States are 5 years others six.

 

Don't worry you will be able to run rings around these idiots for several months yet. First of all send them this;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Account no:

 

You have contacted me/us regarding the account with the above reference number, which you claim is owed by myself/ourselves.

 

I/we would point out that I/we have no knowledge of any such debt being owed to (insert company name).

 

I am/we are familiar with the Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidance which states that it unfair to send demands for payment to an individual when it is uncertain that they are the debtor in question.

 

I/we would also point out that the OFT say under the Guidance that it is unfair to pursue third parties for payment when they are not liable. In not ceasing collection activity whilst investigating a reasonably queried or disputed debt you are using deceptive/and or unfair methods.

 

Furthermore ignoring and/or disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment amounts to physical/psychological harassment.

 

I/we would ask that no further contact be made concerning the above account unless you can provide evidence as to my/our liability for the debt in question.

 

I/we await your written confirmation that this matter is now closed. Otherwise I will have no option but to make a complaint to the trading standards department and consider informing the OFT of your actions.

 

I/we look forward to your reply.

 

**Edit to suit**

 

Remember, don’t sign the letter.

[minky47]

Dear Ceberus, thank you very much for your reply. It was really helpful. I do believe this UK law firm is acting illegally - totally shocking when you think they are lawyers (!!!!). I feel so incredibly angry that these people think they can bully someone like this. So many people are in this situation, and sites like this are brilliant, empowering and definitely wonderful. I did ring up National Debtline too and they told me that there is a foreign debt transfer act which means that foreign debts can be transferred between signatory countries. I will fight this. I am not a lawyer but to me it defies common sense that an unsecured debt can be turned into a secured debt in another country. I simply don't believe it. Your template letter was most helpful and definitely something I will use. Thanks again - very much. Best wishes, Minky47

[cerberusalert]

There are reciprocal agreements in place between certain countries, see; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?250889-Can-I-Be-Sued-For-An-Overseas-Debt

 

However having said that, although it is possible to transfer debts between countries in your case a court order would have needed to have been obtained in Oz first otherwise any case heard in the UK would have to be heard using OZ law & given the amount involved it would not be economically viable for them to instruct a legal firm who is competent enough... then there is the little problem of it being heard by a judge familiar with OZ law. Logically only claims which involve many tens of thousands would progress to this level.

 

As I said in my first post, you only have a few months to go before it becomes Statute Barred in any case & there are plenty of things you can do to keep those solicitors occupied until then.

[cerberusalert]

What is the name of this legal firm?

[minky47]

Hi Cerberus, thanks very much for your reply. It makes so much sense. As I previously said I am not a lawyer, but common sense dictates to me that for a debt of this amount - a couple of thousand australian dollars - it appears ludicrous for them to be chasing me. I don't understand it. Why would they want to chase me for it? Do you have any ideas? I really want to post the name of the legal firm chasing me, but I have to admit I am super-paranoid. I got to thinking last night that teams of debt collectors are trawling sites like this looking for incriminating evidence they can use against debtors. Suffice it to say, I have sent an email with a read receipt request telling this legal firm that I know NOTHING about this debt, and have never had any dealings with this debt collection agency in Australian (true), and that I have sought legal advice and have been advised to report them to the UK Law Society which I will be doing. I am now anticipating a recorded delivery letter from them with all their documents - and it will be interesting to see if they send this (I would bet money on them doing this). I will continue to deny all knowledge of this debt, but this is not a nice way to live. I remember the days back in the mid-2000s when banks were literally handing out credit cards in the streets. I was only working freelance at the time, and I remember how easy it was to get credit back then. The banks never checked up on my ability to pay and my credit limit was $2000. I then lost my job and had to leave the country. I have done the right thing since then. I was one of the millions of people who get into trouble through no fault of their own. In my opinion then, they should lump it, and for a small amount like this they should write it off. It makes me so angry, these people are bullies. I am going to unearth every last bit of legislation to do with my rights, and should probably be awarded a legal degreee after this. Thanks for your support and advice.

[cerberusalert]

You will be one of several debts that this firm are dealing with, they would have received a portfolio of a/cs to chase & are chancing their luck.

 

Firms like this rely on peoples ignorance and try and bully and confuse them into making payment. When they realise that you are going to put up a fight the chances are they will move on and concentrate on someone else.

 

As you only have a few weeks until it becomes SB pleading ignorance and demanding proof will keep them occupied.

[minky47]

Thanks Cerberus, I have a question though - if they send documents to me recorded delivery - by signing for this documents and accepting them, will I be admitting anything? I would like to refuse any recorded delivery documents as I am not expecting any coming from anyone else. Will they then send someone round to hand deliver? If I do have to accept these documents, what next? I will simply deny all knowledge of anything with my name on it - if these docs arrive, is that the way?

 

Also I have found on the Australian Consumer Affairs site some useful tips which I will try and post here soon, one being you can email the Magristrates Court to see if any judgement was ever made against you. But by contacting the Magistrates Court in Australia am I admitting to anything without knowing it.

 

I do know I am not the only one being chased, but when they threatened to go after my home - they have obviously snooped around land registry and found out my mortgage details and personal details etc - which really gives me the shivers and makes me think they are serious for a piddling few thousand dollars - it really gets my back up. I want to fight big guns with even bigger guns.

 

If I do contact the courts in Aus and found a judgement was made against me - surely I would have had to have been contacted? I mean anyone can find an international address now, and I have never hidden. I am on the system in Australia - through pensions etc and so would the court have had to find me if I hadn't replied at my old address.

 

Am panicking abit now as you can probably tell. Many, many thanks for your assistance. Minky47

[cerberusalert]

if they send documents to me recorded delivery - by signing for this documents and accepting them, will I be admitting anything?

No, all you are accepting is the mail, you have no knowledge of the contents besides anyone can sign for it. You do not have to accept any documents either by mail or by hand if you don't wish. But by the time any documents arrive it'll be SB anyway.

But by contacting the Magistrates Court in Australia am I admitting to anything without knowing it.

No all you are doing is ensuring that there are no erroneous judgements against you. A lot of Oz law is based on English law, so it is probable that is similar in as much that if they obtained a judgement in your absence you could apply to have it set aside in any case.

I do know I am not the only one being chased, but when they threatened to go after my home - they have obviously snooped around land registry and found out my mortgage details and personal details etc - which really gives me the shivers and makes me think they are serious for a piddling few thousand dollars - it really gets my back up. I want to fight big guns with even bigger guns.

They are willy waving, in order to apply for the sale of any property they would first need to apply for a CCJ here in the UK, you would have needed to have defaulted on it & even then the most that would happen is that they could apply for a Charging Order.

[minky47]

Yes, that is what they said - they would apply to put a charging order on my house. Thank you very much for your suport and comments.

[cerberusalert]

I hope they put that in writing, if so keep it safe for later use when you make a complaint to the FSA and the SRA.

[minky47]

Hi Cerberus, yes they did put that in writing. Well well, I received another letter from them today with old statements - or copies of them going back to 2005. I have just looked through them and can see that I last made a payment on 29 August 2010. They have said in their letter to me that included with the letter they are supplying copies of statements, Notice of Assignment, Notices of Intention to Issue a Summons and a statement from our client's account. These last documents go back to 2006 and were sent to new address out of Australia, but I have absolutely no recollection every receiving them. What do I do now? The amount owed too is even smaller than I first thought $1300 approx - around £1000 - gawd forbid. So it looks like I have six months to go before it is statute barred, but still. First of all I don't accept these statements - they could be fake - and I really want to know if a court summons was ever issued against me in Australia? I need to find this first, as although they have sent me debt collection agency letterheaded letters, who knows if it was acted on.

 

So sorry to ask you, but do you have any more advice for me?

 

Thanks.

[minky47]

They have also given me 7 days to respond.

[cerberusalert]

I have just looked through them and can see that I last made a payment on 29 August 2010.

That would make it SB in 2016

 

As I said, they are willy waving, If they have bought this debt they would have paid between 7 & 15% of the value. Even if they are acting for the bank their fees & costs would far outweigh the alleged debt.

 

Have you sent the letter in post #2?

[minky47]

Why 2016. It's 6 years isn't it. I have not paid anything since August 2005, so surely it would be statute barred in August 2011.

[cerberusalert]

Why 2016. It's 6 years isn't it. I have not paid anything since August 2005, so surely it would be statute barred in August 2011.

Yes it would be but you wrote in post #12 this;

I have just looked through them and can see that I last made a payment on 29 August 2010

Were you even in Oz on that date? If not and that date is on the statement then it is obviously a forgery.

[minky47]

Oh dear, am sorry, that was a typo. It was definitely August 2005. Sorry to ask this, but do you have any advice on how to proceed now. They have given me 7 days to respond - more bully tactics - will have to reply but won't acknowledge the debt, just need to get rid of them. Any thoughts? Thanks Cerberus.

[cerberusalert]

Have you sent the letter in post #2 yet? If so wait for their response.

[minky47]

Thanks Cerberus. The day you sent me that post with that letter, I had already sent them a read receipted email telling them I did not have any knowledge of the debt and that they had to supply me with proof. This 'proof' has now come through in the form of bank statements etc and a letter to say that the debt was bought by this debt collection agency. My stance now is that I will wait until next week and then send them another email, but I don't know what to say - do you have any advice. BTW, the bank statements got from them yesterday are not originals. I had asked for originals but they came back and said that in the period up until now - over a period of 6 years I was sent originals - well yes, perhaps to my old Australian address but I haven't lived there since March 2005 so of course I didn't get them. What to do next? Sorry to be a bother. Thanks very much.

[cerberusalert]

Well if these muppets want to pretend that this alleged debt is covered under UK law let's play with them for a while, send them a CCA request to see if they are entitled to collect this debt & if it's enforcable. If they fail to provide it within 12 working days from receipt, or the CCA is unenforcable you can legally withold any payment until they do. Send it recorded delivery enclosing a £1 postal order. When you get a reply, scan it & remove any identifying details and post it back here where we can have a look at it. We'll advise you from there;

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Re:- Account No: XXXXXXXX/Your Reference Number: XXXXXXX

 

This letter is a formal request pursuant to s.77/78 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974. I require you to provide me with a true copy of the credit agreement relating to the above account, together with any other documentation the Act requires you to provide.

 

I expect you to comply fully and properly with this request, within the statutory time limit. You are reminded that should you fail to comply with my request, the provisions of s.77 will apply.

 

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

 

Your attention is drawn to ss.5(2), 3(b),6 and 7 of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008 (CPUTR). I enclose a postal order in the sum of £1.00, which is the statutory fee. Note that these funds are not to be used for any other purpose.

 

If you intend to send a reconstituted copy of the CCA you must declare the reason why it has been reconstituted and if the original exists and in what form (microfiche) etc.

 

If you are unable to comply fully and properly with this request, you should confirm this in writing at the earliest opportunity, and certainly within the statutory time limit for compliance, and return the fee.

 

.

 

Furthermore, with regards to the quantity and frequency of telephone calls that I have received from your company, which I deem to be personally harassing.

 

I have verbally requested that these stop, but I am still receiving calls. (Delete if necessary)

 

I now require all further correspondence from your company to be made in writing only.

 

You are reminded of the following under Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008.

 

Trading Standards can bring about a prosecution if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under contract, he or she:

 

(a) harasses the other with demands for payment which by their frequency, or the manner or occasion of their making, or any accompanying threat or publicity are calculated to subject him or his family or household to alarm, distress or humiliation;

(b) falsely represents, in relation to the money claimed, that criminal proceedings lie for failure to pay it;

© falsely represent themselves to be authorized in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment;

(d) utters a document falsely represented by him to have some official character or purporting to have some official character which he knows it has not.

 

I am of the view that your harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008, and the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Further to this if it is your intention to arrange a call from your 'Doorstep Collectors', I note that there is only an implied license under English Common Law for certain people to visit me on my property without express permission; the postman and people asking for directions etc (Armstrong v. Sheppard and Short Ltd [1959] 2 Q.B. per Lord Evershed M.R.).

 

Take note, I revoke license under English Common Law for you, or any of your representatives to visit me at my property and if you do so without my permission, you will then be liable to damages for a tort of trespass. You would also be conspiring in a trespass if you sent someone to visit me nevertheless. Any trespassers you attempt to send therefore will be dealt with accordingly.Be further advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

(Print in red optional addition)

 

I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Yours faithfully **Edit to suit**

 

(Print do not sign signature)

[cerberusalert]

Since they now claim that they have bought this debt & there is no OZ court order they're stuffed... they cannot bring a court action in the UK as a UK court does not have the jurisdiction.

[cerberusalert]

Also see the links in this sticky; http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?264126-Of-great-interest-to-those-overseas-who-are-being-sued-in-the-UK

[minky47]

Thank you so much Cerberus. I really, really appreciate your help and support. I can see you are helping many other people too on the site. I will definitely follow your instructions and see what happens. I don't feel like adhering to their bulllying 7 days to respond tactics. I will contact them sometime next week when I have calmed down. How can I nominate you as the NUMBER ONE helper on this site?

[cerberusalert]

Just tip my scales by clicking the asterisk/star button in the grey bar at the bottom of my post.

[William415]

Hello Minky47,

 

Sorry to hear you are being harassed by these jack-wagons. Cerebrus is giving you excellent advice, and I would suggest that you follow it to the letter. I am in a similar situation (unsecured debt in OZ being chased in the UK), and the good people on this board will provide you with enough ammunition to keep them running in circles until the debt is statute-barred.

 

So don't worry about anything.

 

By the way, it's perfectly safe to name the legal firm that is harassing you ... you have an alias, after all - and they are chasing thousands of people anyway. From previous posts from others, I would venture a guess that it's STEVENS DRAKE. If you are comfortable to confirm, it would be helpful to the rest of us who may be contacted by them in the future.

 

Good luck, and don't worry!

 

W