Argos / Bryan Carter- Claim Form Received

[englishminx]

I have yesterday received a claim form through moneyclaim and northampton court. The claimant is Argos, and they are being represented by Bryan Carter.

 

This is the first I have heard about this debt in a couple of years, approximately 3 years ago, I was off work with severe depression for 10 months, with little income and struggled to pay for the credit I owed.

 

I originally took out the Argos card in approximately Summer 2004, I think online, although not 100% sure.

 

This isnt my only debt, and although I have managed to keep up with most of my other ones (ie getting MBNA of my back) I do have one other large debt unpaid.

 

Although the claim form is less than £300, when they have added their court fees, solicitor fees and interest for a year,

 

The one important thing for me is to not get a CCJ, in case I need a remortgage in the future.

 

The claim form states the following

 

The claimants claim is for the balance due under an agreement which is now all due and payable.

 

The defendant agreed to pay monthly installments under account number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX but has failed to do so.

 

And the claimant claims the sum of XXXXX (less than £200)

 

The claimant also claims interest thereon pursuant to S.69 county court act 1984 limited to one year to the date hereof at the rate of 8% per annum amounting to XXXX

 

I have read a lot of the threads on here since yesterday, and do find it quite confusing with all the different advice, and I am still not quite sure what I should be doing.

 

My parents have offered to lend me the money to pay this for it to go away, but I am worried that my larger debt (which I dont think is enforceable) has suddenly raised its ugly head again, with westcott ringing both my mobile and landline every day monday to friday and leaving messages, and that if I just roll over for this one, it will send the wrong message to the other DCA, although I would defend that as I never took out an agreement with Lloyds /TSB, but they took over my credit card from MoreThan, and therefore dont believe there is a CCA in place.

 

Would appreciate any advice, with it being christmas, I am worried that if BC spends his xmas, stuffing his face with turkey and not working, there will not be anybody there to sign for a recorded delivery if I did send full payment, and therefore judgement would be entered automatically.

 

Have read he can be a bugger,

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

I'll move this thread to our Legal Issues Forum.

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[citizenB]

Can you be a little clearer, I am not sure where Wescot, LTSB come into the picture.

[englishminx]

The Wescott / Lloyds debt is my other debt which is much larger than the argos debt, and I am just worried that my just paying this one, will send the message to wescott that I will roll over, when I cant afford to pay the other.

[citizenB]

Ok, you say you received the Claim form yesterday.. but what is the date ON the claim form. If you are intending to defend then there is a time scale.

 

from the date on the claim form + 5 days for service. Then + 14 days to acknowledge the claim, which you can do online. If you are going to defend then you will get a further 14 days.

 

Meanwhile you need to send a CPR31.14 request to the solicitor mentioned on the claim form . this is a request for information that you dont have. You can only request information that is mentioned on the claim form. In this instance you will be asking for a copy of the agreement and a statement of account or statements showing how they have arrived at the figure they are claiming (suing you for).

 

CPR request below.. Read it carefully and remove where necessary that which doesnt apply to you. Send it to the solicitor by either recorded or special delivery. Keep the receipt of posting attached to your copy of the letter and also check with RM track and trace in a few days to see if it has been delivered.. in the circumstances the weather and usual christmas loads, this is not going to be until after christmas !

 

What bothers me is the small amount being claimed. Are you absolutely certain that is all that is owed on the accoutn.. Bryan Carter is notorious for splitting claims.. ie going for his costs only then coming back for money ie the bulk of the amount outstanding at a later date. So you need to be absolutely certain that this claim is for the FULL amount .. which is why I have suggested you ask for the statement of account. Ideally statements showing the amount outstanding would be better.

 

Dear Sir,

 

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

CPR 31.14 Request

 

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

 

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

 

[Prior to the issue of proceedings I had delivered a request for the production of the agreement mentioned in the Claim Form and on which you rely. That request was ignored][delete if no such request was delivered]

 

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

 

1 the agreement. You will appreciate that in an ordinary case and by reason of the provisions of CPR PD 16 para 7.3, where a claim is based upon a written agreement, a copy of the contract or documents constituting the agreement should be attached to or served with the particulars of claim and the original(s) should be available at the hearing. Further, that any general conditions incorporated in the contract should also be attached.

 

2 the assignment*

 

3 the default notice*

 

4 the termination notice*

 

5 [any other documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim]*

 

* delete if not mentioned in the Particulars of claim.

 

[Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise]#

 

# delete if claim for a sum exceeding £5,000.00

 

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are copied to and received by me within 7 days of receiving this letter. Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy. Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

 

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

 

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

If you require more time in which to comply with this request you must tell me in writing. You must tell me before the time for compliance with this request has expired. In telling me you require more time you must tell me what steps you have taken and propose to take in order to comply with this request and also state a date by when you will comply with this request. In addition your statement must be accompanied with a statement that you agree to an extension of the time for me to file my defence. Your extension of time must be not less than 14 days from the date when you say you will have complied with my request and you must state the new date for filing my defence.

 

If you are unable to comply with this request and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request you must tell me in writing.

 

Please note that if you should fail to comply with this request, fail to request more time or fail to agree to an extension of time for the filing of my defence, I will make an application to the court for an order that the proceedings be struck out or stayed for non-compliance and a summary costs order.

 

I do hope this will not be necessary and look forward to hearing from you.

 

yours faithfully

 

 

 

We can only offer advice, the final decision is up to you. If you pay the amount oustanding then you wont get the CCJ.

 

If you dont pay or dont defend then you will . Have you checked your Credit Reference files to see if there is any reporting on this account ?

 

Can you please let us know what the date on the Claim form is so we can keep on top of the timings for you.

 

[citizenB]

If however you want to admit and pay the amount claimed , then the post below by Sequenci, offering advice on another thread in similar situation to yours might help.

 

 

 

Hello there,

 

Sorry it took me a little bit of time to reply, I'm away a lot at the weekends.

 

You can find a really good fact-sheet outlining how to reply to a county court claim form here: http://www.nationaldebtline.co.uk/england_wales/factsheet.php?page=20_replying_to_a_county_court_claim_form

 

If you wish to make an offer to pay via instalments take a photocopy of the completed n9a form and sent it to the court via recorded delivery. You will notice that the form tells you just to send your offer to the creditor. I would always send a copy to the court too - just in case the creditor tries to tell the court that you have not responded to them. It's vital to try and get the court to allow you to pay the judgment via instalments as it would give you a lot of protection from further enforcement.

 

I can see that the others are advising you on alternative options. Please let us know should you require further assistance.

 

Best wishes,

 

Seq.

[citizenB]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/blog.php

 

If you click on the link above, you will be directed to the CAGblog pages. Sequenci has written some very informative and useful advice on debt planning, time orders, etc. It might help you get your finances under control. HTH.

[englishminx]

Thank you so much for the comprehensive responses and so quickly. I will look at both the blog and thread with regard to responding if I want to pay, and also speak to my OH about challenging the debt. I am confident it is the total debt as I regularly check my credit file, and now I am back working my other creditors are all paid regularly. The date on the claim form is 14th December, and I received it on Saturday 18th December 2010.

[citizenB]

Thank you so much for the comprehensive responses and so quickly. I will look at both the blog and thread with regard to responding if I want to pay, and also speak to my OH about challenging the debt. I am confident it is the total debt as I regularly check my credit file, and now I am back working my other creditors are all paid regularly. The date on the claim form is 14th December, and I received it on Saturday 18th December 2010.

 

Ok, you MUST acknowledge by 2nd January 2011 if you are going to defend. IMHO, I would do it as soon as you can. BC is very quick off the mark to ask for a default judgment. If you are going to defend then I think there is a tick box that allows you a further 14 days so you will have needed to get all your information together in order to put a defence in by 16 January 2011.

 

If you have sent your CPR31.14 request off and you have received no response from BC then you will need to request more time from him. We will deal with that if you havent heard from him by say 3/4th January.

 

Obviously if you are going to settle the account then I think you just need to complete the form that came with the pack. I think you ask to pay in instalments. I am not certain of that, if that is what you want to do, I will find out for you.

[DonkeyB]

Did you receive any collection letters or letter before action?

[Jasper1965]

"Although the claim form is less than £300, when they have added their court fees, solicitor fees and interest for a year,"

 

My 2p's worth.

DO NOT PAY BRYAN CARTERS ONE SINGLE PENNY.

Let it go to Court.

 

Admit the debt but defend the interest, legal fees and costs if you don't feel you have a valid defence.

If you admit the debt you should also cite the breach of Pre Action protocols and leave the Court in no doubt that Bryan Carters failed to make any attempt to resolve this matter before issuing proceedings.

Use the breach of procedure to ask that the claimant be refused costs. ("All they had to do was write to me and I would have paid it")

Anyway Bryan Carters should not be adding the following:

Statutory interest on a CCA1974 regulated debt.

Legal Fees (double charging costs effectively and not neccesary had they contacted you).

Take the CCJ for the lower amount and you'd be very unlucky IMO if a Judge failed to take on board the claimants behaviour.

Pay the judgment within 28 days and it will not be recorded on the register!!

This should let you pay what you owe with the minimum of trimmings for that leeching company and the end benefit is that no CCJ will be recorded against you.

[DonkeyB]

Jasper, that’s where I was going! Let’s hope there was no LBA.

[englishminx]

Hi guys thanks for all your help so far. The moneyserve site was down just before new year, they asked that nobody responded whilst maintenance was going on, I have logged on today as today is the deadline to respond to the claim, but when i have entered the claim number and the password, i get the following message

 

The following errors have occurred:

 

• Claim number or password is incorrect.
  

Which means I am unable to respond to the claim, now is this just a clever ploy from the lovely Mr Carter, or is this a problem with the website? Has anyone else ever had this problem? I have tried about 10 times, tried the 0 and the O, caps locks, caps off, also exactly as printed, and nothing seems to work.

[the_shadow]

Hi guys thanks for all your help so far. The moneyserve site was down just before new year, they asked that nobody responded whilst maintenance was going on, I have logged on today as today is the deadline to respond to the claim, but when i have entered the claim number and the password, i get the following message

 

The following errors have occurred:

 

• Claim number or password is incorrect.
  

Which means I am unable to respond to the claim, now is this just a clever ploy from the lovely Mr Carter, or is this a problem with the website? Has anyone else ever had this problem? I have tried about 10 times, tried the 0 and the O, caps locks, caps off, also exactly as printed, and nothing seems to work.

 

Hi Englishminx, I've seen this today on another thread that another CAGGER attempted to logon and had the password error, I suspect something wrong with the website. Worth phoning northampton bulk centre on tuesday morning and advising them. I would take screenshots of your attempting to logon just to show you have tried although with multiple people having problems suspect they wont be needed.

 

S.

[englishminx]

Thank you, I actually spent some time last night looking through their website, found the FAQ's, that said if you didnt want to respond online, you could by email or fax, so I scanned the documents and emailed themover, also with a print screen of the error problem as well.

 

Once again thanks for all your help. I may be back though after I have finished with Brian the slimey snail Carter, because Wescott have started to get quite agressive with their letters to me for another much larger debt, that I intend on defending all the way.

[englishminx]

Sorry I am back after more advice,

 

Yesterday I said I had problems logging into the site, and acknowledging the claim, but asking for more time. the site did not recognise my passowrd or claim number. I did find an email address to send it to, and sent the court an email with a screen print, showing the problem I was having, I got a response today, just standard saying I need to log on and respond in the website (as if I didnt realise that!!). I also last night scanned the response form (N9A) and emailed that to the court to receive an email back today, saying i cant do this, if I am acknowledging the whole claim, I have to go straight the claimaint not the court, talk about making it more difficult.

 

Anyway when i got home this afternoon, i had a letter from Bryan Crettins with the client being Direct Legal & Collections, saying its not too late for me to respond if I want to avoid a CCJ to contact them.

 

Firstly I was shocked that they were kind enough to email me, rather than jumping straight into the judgement (this made me suspicious).

Secondly I was concerned because I thought my claim was Argos, and had googled the address for the claimant when I received it and it came up as Argos, yet having double checked it does have Argos Card, then under it direct legal and collections, which I assumed was just the collection department of argos.

 

I did phone the cretins up, and when I said that i had not received any notice about the claim, they said that direct legal and collections wrote to me in August 2008, its been over 16 months since i had a letter, and they just went for claim.

 

My questions are the following;

 

Originally i was just happy to pay Argos just to get rid of the mess without the stress as the amount was under £300 even with the fees they have added, but now that I have found out its not Argos I dont want to just roll over;

 

• can i put in my defence and ask for the CCA, which I believe I have never signed as I did it online, but it would have been in summer 2004 (I think).
  

• Would it look bad if I did this if I have actually sent an admission for the whole claim by email even though the court have rejected this saying that I cant sent full acknowledgements to them.
  

• Also, as the deadline was up yesterday, but my claim number / password are not accepted on the website, of which I have informed the court (and tried to contact them this afternoon) can I still go and defend the claim?
  

I know I have messed about a bit, and worse case scenario is I need to pay, which was my original intention, but I am hoping your advice might help in dealing with this now, I have more facts.

[the_shadow]

Ok, so the courts rejected your emailed admission and you didnt send it to BC????

 

If so then Yes you can defend the claim but you have to acknowledge the claim to gain the extra time, I would ring Northampton again...

 

The issue is... do you have a viable defence ???????... you almost certainly have evidence of BC not following the CPR and hopefully thats put a stop to him claiming costs and could even get some costs for yourself if you win. I have to also say that if you do lose and obtain a CCJ, you have a month where you can pay it off and pay a small amount to have it removed from the central registrar and hence wont have the CCJ if that helps in the mortgage applications.

 

You have lost valuable time tho so you need to get that CPR 31.14 letter off asap Post #5 byCitizenB above.... Edit the letter so its just stating you are requesting the agreement as thats the only document mentioned in the claim.....also ensure this bit is in bold in the letter:-

 

Although your claim is for a sum which is not more than £5,000.00 and will in all likelihood be allocated to the small claims track for determination upon my delivering a defence, at this moment in time I have not delivered my defence and the case has not been allocated to a track. In consequence the provisions of CPR 27(2) are of no effect and you should not seek to avoid compliance with your CPR 31 duties by claiming otherwise

 

HTH

 

S.