Problem:Ross & Roberts Bailiff

[hallowitch]

p5 Forcing re-entry

The law upon the rights of bailiffs to force re-entry to premises in order to remove

goods previously seized has recently been clarified. In Khazanchi v Faircharm

Investments; McLeod v Butterwick [1998] 2 All ER 901 the Court of Appeal held that

bailiffs may only force re-entry where they are being deliberately excluded from

premises. It will thus be necessary in most cases for the bailiff to notify the debtor in

advance of the date and time of the visit in order to remove. If the debtor is then

absent from home, or refuses entry, force may be employed

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?203289-code-of-practice-on-local-authorities-use-of-bailiffs&highlight=

[hallowitch]

do not answer the door to her do not let her in

[Ryder657]

she says because she filled in a levy showing stuff of ours she wanted to take and sarah had signed it unknowingly that she can get a locksmith to gain enttry

[Ryder657]

My wife is on the phone in tears i am at a total loss

[hallowitch]

no she cant without informing in writing

 

get on the phone to the council demand to speak to the revenues manager inform them that the bailiff is waiting for a locksmith to remove goods as you speak inform him that you paid yesterday you have not missed any payments ask if they have given permission to do this remind the council that they are responsible for all bailiffs actions

[Ryder657]

She says her boss is calling the council now to get that permission

[hallowitch]

did you check with the ministry of justice to see if she certificated to Ross & Roberts

[hallowitch]

She says her boss is calling the council now to get that permission

 

she would need to have this on her person so personally i think she is chatting shyte

 

ask her (through the window) for the name of court she was certificated to Ross & Roberts and the date

 

PM me her name and i will look the register for you just in case you missed it

[Ryder657]

The council woman has said she is giving her permission so Sarah said she needs to have it on her in person...so the woman said she will get it sent over to the bailiff now in writing...i think they have got us here.

[Ryder657]

i am heartbroken my wife is absolutely distraught.. Am i right in understanding that she can only Take items currently on the levy form..can she add more today as she goes along if she does get in??

[Ryder657]

the ist has our two and three seater leather sofa, corner sofa in the dining room, oak table and chairs ..leaving us no seating..other than that she has a tv which is in my name....as are the table and chairs...and so is the sofa in the dining room..so she cant take our other sofa im assuming...so what can she take..can she fill out more levy forms on the spot and take more here and now.

[hallowitch]

The council woman has said she is giving her permission so Sarah said she needs to have it on her in person...so the woman said she will get it sent over to the bailiff now in writing...i think they have got us here.

 

get back on the phone demand to speak to the revenues manager

 

get her certification checked

[Ryder657]

she is certified, it ran out of date on the 07/11/10 but she had re-applied to bournemouth court for renewal but the register dont know of the outcome of that yet....we've tried calling Bournemouth county court to find out but keep getting and answer phone and haven heard back yet either...

[hallowitch]

unfortunately yes if she gets in she can remove more goods than is listed on the levy i have sent you a PM

[hallowitch]

she is certified, it ran out of date on the 07/11/10 but she had re-applied to bournemouth court for renewal but the register don't know of the outcome of that yet....we've tried calling Bournemouth county court to find out but keep getting and answer phone and haven heard back yet either...

 

 

she must have her certificate on her person to remove goods

can you PM her name

[hallowitch]

are any of the levied goods on HP by any chance

[Ryder657]

The Community Guy said that we dont have to let her in. She said she was putting the letter of permission from the council to use a locksmith to enter our property on the window for us to read..the legal guy then said that unless we have it she cant get in or at least we have to Let her in but that she cannot use a locksmith to gain entry.

[Ryder657]

No sorry..all the goods are owned and paid for.

[hallowitch]

send for the breakdown of charges as well as the subject access request

 

ask for a copy of her certification

 

 

Does anyone know if you can make a Freemon of information request to the Citizens advise

questions like

 

how many complains have you had against xxxxx bailiff

how many of these complains resulted in a complaint to the council by you

Edited December 14, 2010 by hallowitch

[Ryder657]

All of the advice out there conflicts the advice of other source...i mean...they all contradict one another....on the one hand one source i've foudn says they cannt take items considered needed for basic living but that this does not stand true/apply to Her Majesties Revenue and Cutsoms (collection of taxes which i would assume Council Tax comes under)..but then another source says that for council tax they cannot take these items at all. Im baffled...haha who'd have though there was this much complexity to the whole affair.

[hallowitch]

Irregular Distress (Levy) by Bailiffs

With thanks to Tomtubby

[edit]MRS AMBROSE v NOTTINHGAM CITY COUNCIL

This is another well known legal cases that has been relied upon many times when either issuing proceedings, or one that can be referred to when writing a letter of complaint. This case concerns a lady by the name of Mrs Ambrose who claimed that a levy (distress) was irregular as bailiffs had removed goods from the home that were necessary for “providing the basic domestic needs of the family”

Background:

Mrs Ambrose and her husband had an unpaid Council Tax bill for £851.00 owing to Nottingham City Council. In September 2003, Rossendale’s Bailiffs attended at their home to levy distress on goods. Rossendale’s had entered the property, where they identified items that were listed on a Walking Possession. Next to those items listed, the bailiff wrote the words: “and all other goods on the premises unless exempt or specially exempt by statute.” The bailiff had not looked around the house; he had merely entered one room and was therefore unable to see which items were “exempt”

Regulation 45 of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992 lists the following items as being exempt from seizure:

"Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally in employment, business or vocation"

"Such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions as are necessary for satisfying basic domestic needs of the person and family".

As the Council Tax remained unpaid, the bailiff returned with a van to seize furniture that included a sofa, footstool and two dining chairs.

District Judge Cooper agreed that the seizure was irregular as the bailiff had removed furniture that was necessary for “satisfying the basic domestic needs of Mrs Ambrose and her family” This was because, amongst other items removed, the bailiffs had removed 2 dining chairs. They left behind the table and the remaining two chairs. As the family consisted of Mrs & Mrs Ambrose and one child, the bailiffs should have left seating for 3 people, not two.

Nottingham City Council had argued that there could not be any irregularity as Mrs Ambrose had signed the Walking Possession. This was rejected by Judge Cooper who agreed that Mrs Ambrose was faced with the prospect of having her goods removed unless she signed the Walking Possession.

As important as the above is, the Judge also agreed that the wording on the Walking Possession was deficient in that the reference to “all other goods on the premises unless exempt” did not specify what those other goods were, and which ones were exempt. The Judge agreed that the levy was also irregular for this reason.

http://www.dca.gov.uk/enforcement/agents02.htm#part9

 

List A

 

1) The following articles belonging to a debtor shall be exempt from distress at the instance of a creditor in respect of a debt due to him by the debtor-

a) clothing reasonably required for the use of the debtor or any member of the debtor's household;

b) implements, tools of trade, books or other equipment including a car or van reasonably required for the use of the debtor or any member of the debtor's household in the practice of the debtor's or such member's profession, trade or business, not exceeding in aggregate value £1,000 or such amount as may be prescribed in regulations made by the Lord Chancellor;

c) medical aids or medical equipment reasonably required for the use of the debtor or any member of his household;

d) books or other articles including a computer reasonably required for the education or training of the debtor or any member of the debtor's household not exceeding in aggregate value £1,000 or such amount as may be prescribed in regulations made by the Lord Chancellor;

e) toys for the use of any child who is a member of the debtor's household;

f) articles reasonably required for the care or upbringing of a child who is a member of the debtor's household.

 

2) The following articles belonging to a debtor shall be exempt from distress if they are at the time of the distress in a dwellinghouse and are reasonably required for the use in the dwellinghouse of the person residing there or a member of the household-

a) beds or bedding;

b) household linen;

c) chairs or settees;

d) tables;

e) food;

f) lights or light fittings;

g) heating appliances;

h) curtains;

i) floor coverings;

j) furniture, equipment or utensils used for cooking storing or eating food;

k) refrigerators;

l) articles used for cleaning, mending, or pressing clothes;

m) articles used for cleaning the dwellinghouse;

n) furniture used for storing-

(i) clothing, bedding or household linen;

(ii) articles used for cleaning the dwellinghouse; or

(iii) utensils used for cooking or eating food;

 

o) articles used for safety in the dwellinghouse or of household articles.

 

3) The Lord Chancellor may by regulations add to the list set out in subsection (2) above, or delete or vary any of the items contained in that list.

We consider that under 1(b) and 1(d) the preferable aggregate value might be £1500.

 

List B

 

Such tools, books, vehicles and other items of equipment as are necessary for use personally by the tenant in their employment, business or vocation and such clothing, bedding, furniture, household equipment and provisions are as necessary for satisfying the basic domestic needs of the debtor and his family.

[Ryder657]

Also as she was waiting around outside today she added the choice words to my wife that her waiting incurred a £60 per hour fee/charge.

[hallowitch]

Also as she was waiting around outside today she added the choice words to my wife that her waiting incurred a £60 per hour fee/charge.

 

ohh no it doesn't legislation does not allow for a waiting fee

 

fees for council tax are set by the council tax administration and enforcement regulations

the only fees the bailiff can charge (if she is certificated to R&R)

1st visit fee £24.50

2nd visit fee £18

Levy fee (depends on the amount of the liability order)

Walking possession fee (if signed)

van/attendance fee (between £100/150

http://www.herefordshire.gov.uk/docs/Enforcement_Agent_Charges.pdf

[Ryder657]

Jesus.....your brilliant..where do you find all of this?

Ok so, when she took the payment from my fathers card...which was not authorised by my wife or me...she took overall £420

 

She has also now put that our Outstanding Balance is £1,798.35.....where in the hell has that come from?

[ploddertom]

Sorry it has been such a traumatic day for you. Fortunately Hallowitch has been around and given you some very sound advice. Have you managed to contact your Councillr again to update him on developments. The Bailiff is totally out of order with her threats, hopefully she will eventually get her just desserts. The Council appear to have forgotten they are 100% liable for the actions of their Bailiff. As far as the Council providing permission for her to force entry then yet again they are out of order, is there any proof this who she spoke to. I think the time is ready for a Formal Complaint to the Chief Executive David Williams especially to remind him of the following:

 

http://www.portsmouth.gov.uk/media/exec20070427r16_policy.pdf

 

"9.40 In addition to using Bailiffs in their official capacity for the collection of statutory debts of Council Tax and NNDR, they will also make personal visits to customers when the normal reminder procedures have been exhausted for sundry debts. This will be to assess the circumstances of the debt and to attempt to make a payment arrangement, prior to the commencement or enforcement of legal proceedings. In these situations the Bailiff will be acting in the capacity of representative of the City Council, and due consideration will be given to the individual circumstances of the debtor.

 

9.41 All Portsmouth City Council Bailiffs shall be required to adhere to a Code of Conduct, which complies with and extends beyond any statutory requirements. The Code of Conduct shall be determined by SDCRS."

 

PT