Problem:Ross & Roberts Bailiff

[hallowitch]

remove reference numbers and bailiffs name

[Ryder657]

This woman is in for a right shock..im pushing for criminal charges to be bought to bare if at all possible...we've not even put our form 4 complaint in with the council or bailiffs..were going straight to the courts with it...were not giving them a chance to brush it under the carpet.

[Ryder657]

remove reference numbers and bailiffs name

Im on it now

[Ryder657]

Ok..have edited those links and replaced them with the new ones.

[hallowitch]

Yes the goods levied on the second levy..that she carried out..are nearly identical as on the first save a few items.

 

 

oh good well done bailiff you cant levy the same goods twice and there is no such thing as an admin fee

 

she has charged you 1st and 2nd visit fee i am totally convinced this new debt went to R&R between the 6th&12th December the dates for these visits will be interesting

[Ryder657]

See i thought that was odd. See, when she came out she never came into the living room, which is where the Samsung TV, TV unit, Lamp stands/units, 2 and 3 seater leather sofa's are .....well everything except the corner sofa, and technics stack system and speakers...which were in the dining room ..she could only see those through the serving hatch in the kitchen. The corner sofa are in my name..i have reciepts for it...as well as for the dining table and chairs..i have recipets for those in my name as well not Sarah's.

 

We have also found some other interesting things by looking back over our files...see..we keep EVERY bit of offical mail we get..bank statements , recipets, bills, you name it..we keep it...its turned out to be useful...we checked our slot in the filiing cabinet covering all the months back to the beginning of this year....we found a Portsmouth City Council letter..let me outline it for you:

 

Its a council Tax Bill..it says "Date this Bill was Issued: 22-APR-2010

Sates that were in Band C...and then says the usual bits under headers "Amounts You Owe" and "Change From Last Year (in %'s)

Total Amount for 2010-2011 £1206.00 Change from last year being 0.4%

 

It then says the following, i'll list it as it appears on the form:

 

Balance Bought Forward £1312.80

Bailiff 2nd Call Costs £18.00 (odd as we never had a 1st at this point)

 

Charge For The Period Band C 01-APR-2010 31-MAR-2011 £1206.00

Benefit Overpayment For Period 13-APR-2009 22-MAR-2010 £85.65

Benefit 04-MAY-2009 31-MAR-2011 - £326.50

 

AMOUNT DUE: £2301.95

 

(Then something really interesting)

Installments To Be Paid Monthly

First Installment Due On 01/06/2010 1 X 89.76

9 Other Installments Due From 01/07/2010 TO 01/03/2011 9 X 90.00

 

So by this account we were not supposed to start paying this bill until the 1ST of JUNE ..2010...we had our first Bailiffs visit on the 7TH MAY 2010.......is this in anyways right?? and their starting balance was £1544.19....They also took £160 which didnt come off of our bill....is written down in the Box stating "Costs"....instead of the supposed first installment of £89.76 that the concil have put down....its also nearly a MONTH earlier than that date for the first installment.

 

Its seems to me with all this paperwork mounting up that contradicts the next...she is...pardon my french...up s**t creek without the f*****g paddle.

[Ryder657]

Also...to put it into context and put you in the picture a little more...we had two different sets of men before this woman....a guy in May who came in to SET UP the installments, even though we were not told they were in control of this yet..recieved no letter from the council stating they would be here..A MONTH BEFORE OUR FIRST PAYMENT IS DUE....this is also the guy who set up our very first levy and put down items on it..he listed our 2 and 2 seater leather sofas (thats right..she put them wrong..we do not have a 3 seater at all), Samsung flat TV, digi-box (actually a virgin media box..so ..not ours really therefore exempt), 1 X Storgae unit (meaning one of our lamp stands), 1 tv stand wood ..1 phone system which is our house phone..so ..sorry but they cant have that as its a basic neccesity...2 X Lamps.shades, 1 X storage unit (meaning the other lamp table)...she has put all the same items on her levy as well except the items in the dining room/extension..then came...Junes installment , my wife paid over the phone by direct debit to R&R.....so we do not know if this even came off of our Council Tax bill as we have no reciept..its on a bankstatement however saying the payment was to R&R so we have proof....however.so no visit in person this time.....the next payment to another man was when we gave 2 months..one for July and one for August..one in advance for August as this was the month we got married and knew we would be a little short. The next visit was from another guy ...they said we had Defaulted and we explained the last guy took two months..we showed him our reciept..he said ok he'd sort that out as he wasnt allowed to take 2 months.....i got a little agresive this time as i was annoyed..he came back 2-3 weeks after same guy..only bought his little bald henchman with him (i believe he explained her husband was a big solidly built boy and ex para and army heavyweight boxing champion ...my boxing trophies and photo's from afghan and company photos adorn our hallway walls )...he said he had called the guy who took 2 months payments and said he had denied ever taking a month in advance. However again we had the reciept a proof...they said that it was ok..and left. The asked for nothing. However he still obviously had not accepted that we had paid Augusts bill as he said we had still defaulted.

Our next bill was due for the 21st September however no one came out and we had no idea if we were supposed to call them to make that payment? had it changed date? We never had any mail..and no bailiffs came out while we were out (me at work or the wife shopping etc) as they would have left a notice.. so we waited for the next one to come out. Maybe we should have contacted them in retrospect.

This is where the b***h comes into it (sorry my wifes words not mine )...she came out on the 28th Sept 2010 saying that we had defaulted....we had NOT defaulted on that month as no one had came to collect payment on the 21st Sept when they said they would next be out for payment. My wife paid her £160 (payments before this were £120 Per Month).

 

To be fair i should really have scanned and posted ALL of our paperwork including that from the very first guy to come out in May and all after him as things get really interesting YET AGAIN... as we have two bills ..as you both know....both with different reference numbers...obviously...Ref A and Ref B lets call them for legalities sake.

 

Now on the very first Bill....and Levy the guy filled in the very first time Bailiffs came out (back in may...a month before our first payment was ever due i may remind you) he filled in Levy's/notice of seizures for both outstanding bills..so BOTH ....Ref No A and Ref No B.........on the form with Ref B's number (snd bill) ...the Total Amount now Due is listed as £284.32....Jump forward to Tuesday of this week when that woman came out...Look on this one...which is Ref B ...look at the amount now due:

 

http://s1236.photobucket.com/albums/ff445/mortimer657/?action=view&current=amountcheck.jpg&t=1292539189158

 

Its no clearly listed as being for £1225.65

 

How did it jump up to THAT much that quick??? hmmm.

Our first four payments went onto Ref A...which was clearly our biggest bill....since SHE took over...she has been using the bill for number Ref B (which back in May was listed as being for £284.32) we have given hera total of £580 IN PERSON for Ref B plus a direct Debit payment for Ref B for £120...so...how come the bill for Ref B has cost us £700??? . Meaning they have pocketed a nice tasty amount. We have allll the paperwork to prove it. The Council Tax original bill for Ref B wouldnt have gained interest i assume...and according to her when she took over Ref B was for £1344.19? odd...If they do add interest onto these bills which i assumed the Council Didnt...surely it still wouldnt have jumped from £284.32 to £1344.19...a jump of £1059.87...am i right?

 

This just shows me she has been using incorrect references all over the place.

The Bill for Ref A was for £1259.87 back in May when we got including costs and fees.....as far as i can see it......this is a big royal mess and i am going to see to it that this company..and the Council....pay for this.

[Ryder657]

Whats apparent is that in the last 6 months of paying these bills we have paid off hardly anything. What worries me is..when we go to the council and ask for paperwork showing how many liability orders there are against us....the amounts they are for..how many payments they've recieved and how much has come off of our bills etc etc etc...im worried that they will call R&R...ask how much they and their Bailiffs have taken from us over the months..and then correct our bills at their end (the Councils end) to make the bailiffs look good...however..i suppose this is irrelevant as all of the paperwork given to us by R&R bailiffs show not a penny has hardly come off over the past 6 months.

 

We have given over (including the payment my father made) a total of £1325. Our COMBINED bill was only for £1544.19...

According to R&R paperwork (with that womans name on it) on the 14th Dec 2010 we still owed £1225.65....

SO.....according to them..R&R...all these guys...this evil b***h who's face ..sorry..but i would love to cave in along with the blokes who have been out......we have only paid off £318.54 from our bills combined. This means by our record...over 6 months...THEY have taken off of us in fees i'd assume the total of £1025.65.

Clearly it doesnt matter if the paperwork we will be getting from the Council DOES show that this money HAS been coming off of our bills (though i very much doubt it will..maybe the Council do not even know about what R&R have put) as we still have R&R paperwork..showing otherwise.

IF all the money we have paid upto now HAD come off of our bills..we would now only owe £40.

 

 

ALSO....I've just noticed that the Notice of Seizure of Goods and Inventory form that i scanned and put up earlier has a different Ref No than both of the Ref A and Ref B bills.....My wife informs me that this appears to be for this years council tax....as we have been paying the other bills we've been bare bones and havent paid THIS years council tax....so this now leaves us questioning.......of why do we have three bills.....3 reference numbers (the levy form i scanned and posted earlier being the new one for £829.66)......the Ref A Bill being for £1259.87...and the Ref B Bill being for £284.32.....where in the HELL is all of this coming from.

 

It looks as if the first guy that came out and set things up initially had combined BOTH Bills..under the number for Ref A....Ref A = £1259.87,..Ref B = £284.32 ..so that when the next guy came out all he had on his bill was the number for Ref A..but totalling £1544.19 (which seems to be both bills combined)..all bailiffs that came out after him UP UNTIL the woman took over were using Ref A number with the Total Outstanding Amount listed as £1544.19....however when this Woman started to come out....she is using Ref B's number..odd.

Edited December 16, 2010 by Ryder657

[hallowitch]

is this all for the same address

 

write up both lists of goods on both levies as there written (I'm wondering if she had her levy written out before she entered your property)

 

council tax works on financial year from the 1st April till the 31 st march full payment is due on 1st April but councils allow you to spread payments over 10 months its only when you miss a payment they take you court for the remainder of the year thats when the bailiffs come in to collect the debt

but the next council tax year should be collected as normal a bill in march payment start in April

 

Total Amount for 2010-2011 £1206.00 Change from last year being 0.4%

 

It then says the following, I'll list it as it appears on the form:

 

Balance Bought Forward £1312.80

bailiff 2nd Call Costs £18.00 (odd as we never had a 1st at this point)

 

I don't understand this are you saying the council are also adding bailiffs fees to the council tax debt /bill

[Ryder657]

I know what your all thinking..none of this makes any sense..thats how we feel. None of it adds up...works out right.....its madness...but all we do know is that somewhere we have lost a lot of f*****g money....as i've said..totalling £1025.65.

[ploddertom]

It will take a little unravelling but all will come good in the end. You have to stick with it. If the Council decide to be obstructive and not cooperate there are a couple of measures to help, one is your local Councillor again and the other may have to be a SAR, but face that as it happens. I suspect the Bailiffs now know they have been caught out - they do read these posts and it will have been very easy to identify you. Time now to play them at their own game but first off lets see what the breakdown request brings although I have a sneaking suspicion it may have to be submitted again.

 

PT

[hallowitch]

It looks as if the first guy that came out and set things up initially had combined BOTH Bills..under the number for Ref A....Ref A = £1259.87,..Ref B = £284.32 ..so that when the next guy came out all he had on his bill was the number for Ref A..but totalling £1544.19 (which seems to be both bills combined)..all bailiffs that came out after him UP UNTIL the woman took over were using Ref A number with the Total Outstanding Amount listed as £1544.19....

This bailiff levied correctly if he was collecting 2 liability by putting both liability orders together and charging 1 set of fees

where he went wrong was your arrangement to pay it should have put in writing payment of x amount to paid 1st/2nd of the month

you should have been given a method of payment

bailiffs do not get paid for making door step collections

A form 4 is a complaint against the bailiffs fitness to hold a certificate

If she had already filled out the before she entered your property this means she was aware these goods were subject to previous levy (making them exempt) they cant levy all your seating they must leave enough seating for the whole family

she did not make you aware that she was in possession of another liability order as far as you were conserd she was there to collect payment

she turned the account A back to A+B and added c

the only reason for the above actions is to increase the fees

at your door on the 14th she knew she could not legally enter you property (was this to intimidate you into paying) and she was there a while

the administration of your account is down the B&S

[hallowitch]

I have a sneaking suspicion it may have to be submitted again

 

hopefully because its a legal adviser requesting the info he will receive it but i would go with that it will have to be requested again or there will be no screenshot (you know it goes) they need time to figure out how they are going to justify the fees and get out of the sxxxxx

[Ryder657]

We have rooted through our Council Paperwork for last year and have some issues with another one.

It IS a levy notice for a debt saying we owe "£1266.77" And says:

 

TAKE NOTICE that by the virtue of a distress warrant issued by Portsmouth City Council (under the authority of a Liability Order issued by Portsmouth Magistrates), I have this day attended to distrain and seize your goods and chattels to enforce payment of the sums set out below, due to Portsmouth City Council.

Unless payment of the full amount, including the fees and charges, is made within FIVE days I may return, at anytime, to execute the warrant and any goods and chettels which are removed may be sold according to law.

(then under this it says)

Bailiff Fees of £24.50 are included in the total Debt.

HEARING DATE OF HEARING 24th July 2009 (what hearing we didnt attend a hearing we never reieved anything about this we have nothing in ourrecords)

 

Total Debt £1266.77

 

Payments should be made to the Bailiff in person or to any Portsmouth City Council cashiers office. All cheques etc, should be made out to Portsmouth City Council.

Signed xxxxxxx Date: (heres my issue) 15/10/09

 

We never recieved anything telling us to attend a hearing and besides anything they have the date for a hearing down as 24July 2009...this letter wasnt sent to us until 15/10/09. Are we not supposed to be asked to attend a hearing.....?? I remember taking issue of this with them back then...why did it take another 7 months before they started sending Bailiffs out. I didnt think they could give the bailiffs permission to take our goods until AFTER they had carried out a levy..i am totally lost. How come they listed the Bailiffs charges..dont the bailiffs do this bit?

[Ryder657]

My brain is scrambled.The Bailiff came out first time on the 7th May 2010..which was months after that letter above was sent to us when we were still struggling to make ends meet..before i got a well paid job and was earning a far better wage than the job i had when i first left the army.

We are taking this lot to our legal advisor just to check somewhere along the line that they havent got us by the short ones..however i doubt it because Costs..i would assume..means..THEIR costs...is thats the case they have still been taking fortunes off of us. I'd be right in understanding that this years bill thats been building up....wont start getting added on until NEXT tax year...correct? or can they add that NOW as a new Bill without letting us know first via letter from the Council.

[hallowitch]

I know what your all thinking..none of this makes any sense..thats how we feel. None of it adds up...works out right.....its madness...but all we do know is that somewhere we have lost a lot of f*****g money....as i've said..totalling £1025.65.

 

 

once you get the paper work back we will see whats going on your money may be lost in baillif fees but its not gone you can be sure of that

[hallowitch]

See that levy in your post 70 against a debt of £829.66 that she done on the 13th thats for this years council tax you should have had letters from the council before it got to the bailiffs stage

when was the las time you paid council tax for this year

[Ryder657]

A form 4 is a complaint against the bailiffs fitness to hold a certificate

If she had already filled out the before she entered your property this means she was aware these goods were subject to previous levy (making them exempt) they cant levy all your seating they must leave enough seating for the whole family

she did not make you aware that she was in possession of another liability order as far as you were conserd she was there to collect payment

she turned the account A back to A+B and added c

the only reason for the above actions is to increase the fees

at your door on the 14th she knew she could not legally enter you property (was this to intimidate you into paying) and she was there a while

 

the administration of your account is down the B&S

 

It appears you are right on this. When she came out on the 6th Dec 2010 she handed my wife an envelope as she left saying 2i have to give you this " and left...The paperwork inside is as follows:

 

Default Notice- REF A number

Client Ref xxxxxxxxxx

Date: 02/12/2010

 

Todays Visiting Fee: £160.00

Todays Outstanding: £1,225.65

 

 

She has dated it herself in handwriting before putting it into the envelope as: 6/12/10...she ha not filled in the time it was signed by her.

 

The Next says: (again..a default notice) Date in Print at the top..again...02/12/2010

 

 

Todays Fee: £ (blank)

Total Outstanding: £ (Blank)

 

No dates etc....the date in print at the top and no time

 

The Next is a FIRST NOTICE

 

We have attended today in respect of your debt. Unless you contact me immediately I will return to your property with a view to levy distress (listing your goods) as security against this debt which will incur further costs.

 

Further statutory costs under the council tax (administration and enforcement) regulations 1992 will become payable. You must contact me immediately on the telephone number below to arrange prompt payment of your debt.

 

No contact will be taken as your refusal to pay.

 

She's signed this and added the amount £935.66 in handwriting in a space at the bottom.

 

However we had already agreed for her to come out on the Monday for a payment of £250 which is what she was asking for. She came on monday and said the bill is now £366. We said we didnt have that much as she had told us it was £250...she then took £105 and said she would be back in the morning for the remaining £261....to my knowledge this is an un-reasonable amount of time disproportionate to our ability to pay.

[Ryder657]

See that levy in your post 70 against a debt of £829.66 that she done on the 13th thats for this years council tax you should have had letters from the council before it got to the bailiffs stage

when was the las time you paid council tax for this year

 

We haven't as a woman from P.C.C came out to our house and told us in person in March of this year that she would combine both bills together and we could pay it that way. I think the best thing i can do is scan all of the forms that we have so you can see the mess of paperwork they've given us that contradicts each new bit we have........however the fact still stands at the moment that even after a recalculation of all of our bills, we have:

Ref A and B bills totalled £1544.19

They have, from the money they have had from us..paid off £318.54 from that bill...We have given them £1220.00 in total thus far. Meaning they have pocketed £901.46.

The new woman HAS combined the REF C number...the new one...to the REF A number (REF B is non existent if it was ever SUPPOSED to exist at all since the first guy combined them, seems made up to me).

Her balances are the combined Bill which should be Ref A, she has been using Ref Number B all the time she has been coming to us...even though the first bailiff combined then when he came out the first time ..to REF A.

Our totals now sit at £1798.35, which i can only assume is REF A... COMBINED with the bill for this years council tax..that was supposed to have been combined back in March. Sorry but alot of this is our own fault for being naive and trusting these people to not screw us over..we were quite sheltered before this as i was in the army , because we had kids we lived in army quarters.

To be fair..we still have all the proof that they have taken extortionate amounts of costs and fees from us while hardly paying anything off of our bill and lying about the true extent of the powers she could have excerpted when she came out on tuesday....however our council tax for this year..OR..the majority of our council tax for last year should be completely paid off....even with last years tax and this years tax considered we should only still, at MOST, owe £1068.85...instead they still say we owe £1798.35. So either way where has ALL of that money gone...worryingly..we need to get this resolved ASAP (with our legal advisors help) otherwise when the next Council tax bill comes in....were gonna be no better off..and still trying to pay this bill....and then have yet more added on because we cant cover our monthl council tax for 2011 into 2012.

 

This is a s**t state of affairs.

[Ryder657]

Our council tax was intially roughly £145 a month..i believe...it stayed att hat amount until we realised we were entitled to a reduction..we then had it reduced to £120..they then put it down to £90..which was what we were entitled to have it reduced to after our youngest was born April last year.

Thing is HAD all this cash we've given over.......came off of our bill in the amounts it should have....we would have been able to clear the remaining approx £1068.85 we would have owed at most before the new Tax year started and then been on fresh slate.

 

The Council NEVER told us when the bailiffs would be coming out the first time....We had that letter back in October of last year..this one :

 

TAKE NOTICE that by the virtue of a distress warrant issued by Portsmouth City Council (under the authority of a Liability Order issued by Portsmouth Magistrates), I have this day attended to distrain and seize your goods and chattels to enforce payment of the sums set out below, due to Portsmouth City Council.

Unless payment of the full amount, including the fees and charges, is made within FIVE days I may return, at anytime, to execute the warrant and any goods and chettels which are removed may be sold according to law.

(then under this it says)

Bailiff Fees of £24.50 are included in the total Debt.

HEARING DATE OF HEARING 24th July 2009 (what hearing we didnt attend a hearing we never reieved anything about this we have nothing in ourrecords)

 

Total Debt £1266.77

 

Payments should be made to the Bailiff in person or to any Portsmouth City Council cashiers office. All cheques etc, should be made out to Portsmouth City Council.

Signed xxxxxxx Date: (heres my issue) 15/10/09 ...this was after the hearing as i said earlier when i posted this letter.

 

We then were never told or recieved a letter telling us the Bailiff would be coming out in May of this year...one month before the Councils NEXT letter came which stated we were to start paying in June..which as i said earlier..shocked me.

[Ryder657]

Right just a few more things to finalise and clarify so i know what to do if they come out again when i refuse to pay them and ONLY pay the Council direct (i'll go in and do this and ask for reciepts on the spot). So...just to strengthen my position.

 

They have a walking possession agreement from before remember...that she wrote out on Monday..however....some of the items listed on it...were from the first guys forms as she never even came into our living room when she came out on Monday and filled it in..she was in the kitchen and dining room the whole time so saw nothing in the living room...I was in the living room speaking to an adoption lady, as our oldest is not biologically mine, i am adopting her , though she does have my last name now . So have a witness to this..an official sounding one too .

 

As i hear it a Walking Possession Agreement ONLY allows them to gain enty via peaceful means if we leave a window open or a door unlocked etc..but they cannot get a Locksmith out for this..correct? Only if we have a form notifying this is going to happen from the Council can they use a LOCKSMITH..correct? A certain amount of days before?

 

 

Im assuming the letter from the Council that is shown in the post prior to this, highlighted in Green..would have no bearing on this?? since that was sent last year in October.....(remember Bailiffs didnt first come out until May of this year and therefore they had no levy or goods listed last year)...can she say that justifies her to use a locksmith?

 

Also..She listed all of our seating....a TV which is on reciept in my name....as is dining table and chairs..digi box..meaning our Virgin digital box which is..obiously Virgins and our home phone which is a neccesity...so..as these items i should imagine are exempt...that would mean that the remaining items are not enough to pay for fees AND a SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF THE DEBT from the Council?? Correct?? So can i get that levy/notice of seizure anulled or cancelled out?? if so who would i have to see to get that done??

[Ryder657]

Heads are going to roll and i want all of the money back they've taken that they shouldnt have...after all..i have paperwork to prove they've taken it..and to proove that the totals havent been coming off of our Council Tax bill.

[ploddertom]

If you want to do some reading

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/contents/made

 

PT

[Ryder657]

Hi again all,

 

I trust you all had a good Xmas and new year?

 

Well to bring things well and truly into 2011...we are still dealing with the ****, sorry , Bailiffs. Our next payment is due on Monday, however im not paying the Bailiff a penny..simply as that..walking possession order or not....Our legal advisor is trying to negotiate with the council.

 

I sent that letter reccomended by PT out and recieved no reply so am sending another tomorrow..this WILL be the final one i send them however. Have all paperwork of ours compiled and ready to go.

 

Tomorrow i'll be calling our local Councillor and telling him firmly but politely , that i am going to take my vote elsewhere should they not assist me in getting this debt handed back to the Council and that i WILL be approaching the Local and National Press to inform them that a veteran of Sierra Leonne, Bosnia, NI, Iraq and Afghanistan and his family (me of course) is being harrssed..has paid extortionate and i suspect, illegal, fee's to a bailiff, have not been able to get the Council to take the debt back and threatened to have goods removed based on what appears to be an invalid levvy...By the way how do i get a Levvy Anulled/Cancelled? (i'd assume this puts them back to square one for trying to gain entry)...someone said embaressing them is a good way to have effect.

 

Can anyone else suggest anything else.

 

All the Best

[Ryder657]

Bump. (just to keep this current).