Citi credit card debt now with Cabot

[gelato]

Hi,

 

I had a credit card from Citi with a rather high limit for which I always paid on time through my linked bank account. However, in 2008, due to urgent relocation, I _did not_ ensure to pay them before I left.

 

Citi didn't contact me at my email or phone and as I had changed country, I didn't get any posts. Now I come back to UK and find an entry against my name in equifax - default from Cabot. I called Cabot and they say that I owe them a HUGE amount of money because Citi sold the debt to them. I am willing (and able) to pay the debt, but don't want to pay the ridiculous amount of charges to either Citi or Cabot. My understanding also is that Cabot would have bought this debt from Citi at 15% to 20% of what they are asking me now.

 

My questions are:

 

1. Shall I pay to Citi or Cabot? So far, I haven't got a letter from either Citi or Cabot. I proactively called Cabot to know what was happening after seeing default against my name in equifax. Also to note is that my other cards/accounts with other banks are fine.

2. How do I ensure that I don't pay the charges but only the amount that was due.

3. What are the steps involved in making sure that I pay to the right party, pay the fair amount and get my credit rating cleared

 

Any help/guidance will be much appreciated.

 

Thanks a lot

[the_shadow]

Hi Gelato,

 

Welcome to CAG!

 

If Cabot have taken over the default and stated they own the debt then the repayment should be to cabot not citi. As to the charges applied you would need to both SAR Cabot and Citi and also request a breakdown of how the outstanding debt was calculated. In regards the credit file I'm afraid the default will stay on your record for 6 years no unless you can come to an agreement with the new creditor to remove it subject to repaying the debt.

 

Just out of interest how long ago did this debt originate from, when did you take the card out?

S.

[gelato]

Thanks shadow.

 

I'll request SAR to both. Assuming I get the info (and they will have to give me, correct?), how can I make sure that excessive charges are removed? I didn't pay in Sep 08, I think they called it 'debt' sometime in 2009 (don't know the details as Cabot guy was not able to tell much), and now the amount is more than double of what it should have been! Hence my point about making sure to avoid charges. Any tips on managing the communication will be appreciated as well.

 

Thanks again!

[dx100uk]

i'd be very wary of paying anything 'major' unless you can get the defaults removed.

 

i'd also stay off the phone to them, do it in writing only.

 

hopefully the charges and or mis-sold? ppi will wipe the balance or knock it down alot.

 

dca are not allowed to add anything to the debt even if they have brought it, which is not mentioned in the original cca or T&C's

 

watch cabot

 

they have a nasty habit of heaping on charges where they think they can get away with it.

 

dx

[gelato]

Thanks DX.

 

Will soon know what charges they were and if they included PPI or not. Thanks for your tip on not calling them and corresponding only in writing- several other posts also mention that, and which brings me to another question: shall I proactively write to them or let them chase me? How does it change the dynamics?

 

Thanks to you and others in advance for the help. Quite appreciated.

[dx100uk]

the sar 's are enough for now

 

sit tight till we get those

 

dx

[MARTIN3030]

moved here with others facing same issues.

[gelato]

Thanks 20MARTIN3030.

 

Didn't know it should have been here, else would have done the same right from the start. Thanks, and sorry for the inconvenience.

[MARTIN3030]

No problem-and no inconvenience at all.

If you read a few of the threads here you will see what you are up against.

From the very beginning-and I am talking about 2006,Citifinancial have refused to play ball and more often than not have failed to comply with its obligations-these threads are full of such examples.

However,CAG members have been resiliant and stuck together,sharing info,experiences and results.

We still say that no bank or financial institution should be above the law or flout their obligations.

Although they wont readilly admit it-over the years the CAG has been a thorn in their sides when it comes to standing up for our rights.

Only by maintaining pressure and continuing to share these stories collectively-can we maintain that stance.

[gelato]

Thanks Martin.

 

A great point- yes, I have learned a lot in last one week, and rest assured will do my best to fight these evil people and share all the info on the forum so that others can make use of it. At the same time, will obviously need help from experienced CAGgers such as yourself to get across the line.

 

Cheers, and seasons greetings!

[MARTIN3030]

Yes and you too:-)

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

Just a couple of points here, Citi don't usually send out an agreement or terms and conditions for a SAR. They will say that it is not covered by the Data Protection Act.

 

If you were to CCA Citi, they will say that as they are not the owner, they have no obligation to supply the agreement. If you want to see the terms and conditions, you will have to CCA Cabot and even then getting T's&C's will be very hard.

[gelato]

Thanks silverfox1961.

 

But it is Cabot who allege that I owe them that HUGE amount, so I need to see all the proofs. I guess I owe them a bit, which I am happy to pay, but if they want me to pay money, shouldn't they first show me all documentation?

 

What happens if they cannot provide the info I ask? Will they remove the 'default' against my name?

[silverfox1961]

If a default placed is accurate (and I think yours probably is) then removal is not automatic.

 

Once you get the SAR back from Citi, get the charges removed then go to Cabot to get proof that they are allowed to charge you interest.

 

As part of the negotiations to settle this debt, removal of the default is part of it. They may come back and say they can't remove the default but that is rubbish. They are allowed discretion.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes of course-they can.

After Citi assigned the account,Cabot would have needed to re-register the default to them.

So Cabot are perfectly able to remove the entry or ammend it.

You can also add a notice of correction to your file with the CRA saying something like "The subject disputes the accuracy of the entry and is currently awaiting documents to support the default amount recorded"

 

They dont like this.....but it is your right.

[gelato]

Thanks both for quick replies. Sorry, I am a bit confused now.

 

1. Shall I ask for CCA, SAR or both? To Citi, Cabot or both?

2. If both SAR and CCA, can I send one postal order of £11 or does it have to be £10 and £1 separately?

 

Thanks much in advance. I will like to at least send the letters out today, being a Saturday!

[dx100uk]

hello guests!

 

spying again.....

 

dx

[gelato]

Anyone please, pretty please?

[MARTIN3030]

I would send the full SAR to Citi and the CC request to Cabot.

Cabot should have account docs since the assignment can only be legitimate if they have that.

Some elements of CCA docs do not fall within the meaning of personal data-thats why you should do both.

Even though Citi claim that they have no liability to a lender once the account is closed-this seems to be conflicting to the regs-which say that the original crediter will ALWAYS have a responsibility to respond to a lenders requests for information.

It will be Cabots responsibility also to deal with your request and if they can not supply,then they should be contacting Citi.

Make sure that when you send the £1 to Cabot-you make it clear that this is the stat fee and payment for the

request,and should not be used for any other purpose.

Does this answer your questions ?

[gelato]

Yes, thanks Martin, it does.

 

Now the wait begins!

[the_shadow]

Agree 100% with what Martin has suggested, also it can be quite valuable if Citi claim they have no responsibility and have passed on all info to Cabot... esp. when Cabot are then unable to produce the agreement or any requested documents without going back to the original creditor. A tangled web of lies they tend to weave.

 

S.

[gelato]

Hi all,

 

Thanks again to all of you for your help. I thought I'll update everyone on the latest happenings and also ask for your opinion.

 

I sent CCA and SAR requests to both Cabot and Citi back in December.

 

Citi came back with more questions (like new address proof etc) in order to send me the documents, which I have sent them a month back, but no response yet.

 

Cabot came back with SAR in Feb in a CD that was unreadable, and after several reminders on CCA (and me writing to them that their 40 days were up and hence the matter is in dispute now etc etc), have come back today (after about 3.5 months). The CCA is Citi's, is not signed by me, and I don't remember seeing it- though the terms seem to be fine eg. 13.9% APR etc. There also was a Cabot's letter essentially warning me that not having provided the CCA would not have affected the legality of the debt, but just made it unenforceable until the time they were able to get the CCA. As they have got CCA now, I _must speak to them_ within 14 days else they will escalate my case to collectors.

 

However, 1. I still don't know how they reached the numbers they are asking for. 2. The CCA is unsigned and I am not sure it is the same, though it looks in order and the terms look reasonable. 3. Citi are yet to reply with SAR and 4. I am yet to get (a readable) SAR from Cabot. On top, all the documents have been delayed by more than 90 days, not 14/40 days as legal.

 

So my questions are:

 

1. I want to know how the final figure was arrived at, what should I do to get that info?

2. If both Citi and Cabot don't come with proper information, or come with information too late (such as the present case of 90 days vs 40 days limit), what should I really do- bearing in mind that I am OK with paying what is reasonable, but they're asking for more than double of what I think they should ask for.

3. Cabot sent a letter dated April 4th, though it reached today (14th). I suspect they may be backdating their letters... any thing I should be aware of as my rights?

4. Any other help on managing Cabot will be very helpful, as I can see their language in today's letter was rather aggressive.

 

 

Any help will be appreciated.

 

Thanks,

Gelato

[the_shadow]

Ok

 

1. Query the amounts with them asking them to state how they have come to these amounts... send recorded

2. Ok Sar out of 40 days is worth a complaint to the ICO just to get them on track, CCA out of 14 days no effect on anything other than they cant enforce whilst they dont respond to it.

3. In your query put a paragraph that you are aware they are back dating their letters and you put them on notice that this will be brought up in any legal proceedings in future.

 

As for the CCA, do they state they are relying on a "reconstruction" or do they say this is your CCA? You state the terms are "reasonable"... if this is a reconstruction you want to go over the document with a fine toothcomb to see if it matches what you think you signed, look at statements and see if interest rates are the same etc... also to meet waksmans test in Carey vs HSBC the reconstruction needs to have your name and address from when you took out the agreement in the first place.

 

S.

[gelato]

Thanks Shadow, as always.

 

CCA: it is a 'reconstituted true copy'. Out of the two copies of the CCA, second address does indeed match my last address, though the first one does not!

 

Without seeing the details as to how they arrived at the sum they ask, I have no way to check if the interest rates are similar - as I never had any late payment in my life before this default. Amazing act of carelessness on my part for which I am having to waste so much time now.

 

So I guess the only way to confirm everything is by asking for exact amounts.

 

Final questions of the evening, any ideas on how do I negotiate down to the 'fair' price in this case? and how soon?

Thanks a lot again - much appreciated.

[the_shadow]

TBH I've never negotiated with this bunch (yet) but I personally would always wait until they start making offers of discount first in any full and final offers... if its reduced repayments you are considering then I'd always back my suggested amount up with an I&E although not the massively detailed one they normally send out asking for your mothers shoe size but rather the nationaldebtline's one.

 

S.