Intimidation by Enforcement Officers

[paddygibbons]

Hello everyone I am new to this Forum and I need some serious advice that I can relay to my ex-partner,

 

This morning at around 10:00am High Court Enforcement Officers turned up at my ex-partners address looking for me for a £1200 Council Tax debt that I did not no existed

 

now you may read this and think come on you must of known but I honestly did not know,

 

now when my partner opened the door a High Court Enforcement Officer from Marston Bailiff stood there my ex asked him what he wanted he replied he was looking for me

and mentioned my name my partner told me hours later that she made it clear to the Bailiff that I did not live at the property nor have I ever lived at the property

and she was the only Tenancy holder of the property at this moment

 

her pet dog moved the parlour door in the house in this instant the Enforcement Officer pushed past her in to the lobby

my partner told him to leave but he ignored her he told her he wanted to look around the property

 

his colleague then came in to the house behind him she told the Bailiff that she needed go upstairs to change as she was inappropriately dressed

she said when she turned around in the bedroom one of the Bailiffs was standing their he followed her upstairs

 

she told him to get out be his reply was am only doing my job,

he then proceeded to look through every draw and cupboard in the house

my ex-partner got very upset at this stage and began to sob

 

he then started asking questions like do you have children to the debtor meaning myself

he started picking up pictures asking who these people were

 

when my ex-partners father turned up he told the Bailiffs to leave her house as the person they were looking for has never lived at the property

and I must say I have not or have never lived at my ex-partners property so I don;t no how they new about my relationship and were my ex lived,

 

the Bailiff then threatened my ex with the police saying that the police would be paying her a visit in the night

and also the next day - when my father in law told them to get out the Bailiff made an imaginary phone call to the police as this my ex later found out.

 

They then told her to tell me that I must pay £480 by 12:00am or a warrant will be issued for my arrest.

 

About an hour later my ex contacted myself and explained the whole situation

 

she told me at no point did they show her any identification

they also would not show her any paper work

 

in the end she got that upset over the Bailiffs entering her property by pushing past her and going in to her bedroom

she rang the police who told her what they done was wrong they gave her a a level 3 panic number to ring encase they return

and they told her no calls were made from any Bailiffs agency from her address,

 

and a I did ring the Bailiff and told him I couldn't afford what he was asking

I then told him he was wrong and that he'd conducted himself in a inappropriate manner by pushing past my ex

and following her upstairs in to her bedroom his reply to this was " did I ask her for the money "

 

he then changed the subject saying "do you want to sort this "out

I told him I couldn't afford what he was asking

explaining I was on Job Seekers Allowance and he said "you will have to borrow it or its a custodial sentence that's your only option"

 

I rang the council and have agreed for it to be taken from my benefit,

But I need some advice for my ex-partner who was very distraught after this indecent

 

who can she turn to

 

she wants to write a strong letter of complaint but does not know how to put it in to words

and where to send it to

 

I know what the Bailiffs did was wrong

 

if you yourself reading this now could of heard my ex-partner on the phone to me,

 

you would know that they intimidated her which is wrong

she needs help to resolve this matter

could some one please offer me some advice.

 

 

Thank-you for taking the time in reading my message.

 

Kind regards

Edited December 2, 2010 by dx100uk
clarity & line spacing

[seanamarts]

They had absolutely no rights whats so ever to gain access to your ex's home. She was not on the liability order and the liability order obviously did not have her address on it. There are few things that she can do,

1. go to the police and report the incident, regardless whether he is a bailiff or not is not the issue as he was not acting within regulation guidelines and now should be treated as an intruder, and charges should be taken against the bailiff and his side kick.

2. make a formal complaint to Marstons and the chief executive of the council who issued the liability order.

Marstons are very renowned at breaking the rules, and the first rule he broke was forcing his way in. He had no rights to be in that property and no rights to discuss the matter with your ex. If you know the name of the bailiff then I would start considering a form 4 complaint. However before you do lets see what the council have to say about the matter first. Its pointless calling them, you need to write to them, its best your ex does this. If she needs any help then come back on here and we can help you do that.

[paddygibbons]

Hello Seanamarts Thank-you for your response it was Liverpool City Council who sold the debt to Marstons, after reading your reply I was going to ring Mr Roberts from Marston Bailiffs and say my ex was not on the liability order and the liability order obviously did not have her address on it, but do you recommend I don't ring the Bailiffs and tell my ex to write to Liverpool City Council she knows the name of the Bailiff should she ring the police back and say they did not act in the guidelines and wants to treat it as a intruder, she not very literate and either am I were not good at writing letters so she doesn't now how to write a strong letter of complaint to the council. Any way would you advise her writing to the council first and not contacting the Bailiff also could you please explain what a form 4 complaint is. Thank-you very much for your advice its really is heart-warming when someone like yourself is their to offer advice very much appreciated.

[seanamarts]

I would seriously advise that she goes back to the police to press charges against this bailiff, its pointless calling Marstons as they will just give you a belly full of lies. I will be glad to help in writing a letter of complaint to the chief executive of the council.

A form 4 is a complaint procedure with the court the bailiff was certificated at. they will look at his fitness to hold his certificate and will also see whether he acted correctly, which he has not. The court may then cancel his certificate and he may lose his job and possibly your ex will be compensated. It is first best to contact the council first to complain and if they do not uphold this complaint then we can go down the ombudsman route or a form 4. unfortunately once you go down the route of a form 4 the ombudsman wont get involved. We can also place a complaint with Marstons, to me it would be pointless as they stand by their bailiffs, however the council should investigate any way as the bailiff is the councils acting bailiff and are responsible for his actions. Let me know if you wish me to help you with a letter of complaint.

[seanamarts]

I have just checked the register and there is not a certificated bailiff that works for Marstons under the name you have given, are you 100% sure that this was his name. If this is the case then we shall be writing a letter to Marstons asking for proof that this bailiff is certificated with them. If he is not then some people are going to be in some trouble.

[fork-it]

Hello everyone I am new to this Forum and I need some serious advice that I can relay to my ex-partner, This morning at around 10:00am High Court Enforcement Officers turned up at my ex-partners address looking for me for a £1200 Council Tax debt

 

What doesnt sit right is High Court Officers dont collect Council Tax. The other issue is Marstons dont normally collect council tax, they never bid on council tax collection contracts. Their MO is court fines, High Court civil debts, traffic and parking debts. This could be a change in Marstons MO.

 

that I did not no existed now you may read this and think come on you must of known but I honestly did not know, now when my partner opened the door a High Court Enforcement Officer from Marston Bailiff stood there my ex asked him what he wanted he replied he was looking for me and mentioned my name

 

Then your partner hust have been receiving documents in your name. You need to determine what kind of debt this is. but remember you have bo obligation to give your current address to a bailiff. If the bailiff is uncooperative in telling you what the debt is then tell him that liability is being disregarded because due process has not been properly effected under Section 7 of the Interpretation Act 1978. Once identified, you should start the appeals procedure and have the judgement set aside or process rolled back to pre-enforcement stage.

 

my partner told me hours later that she made it clear to the Bailiff that I did not live at the property nor have I ever lived at the property and she was the only Tenancy holder of the property at this moment her pet dog moved the parlour door in the house in this instant the Enforcement Officer pushed past her in to the lobby my partner told him to leave but he ignored her he told her he wanted to look around the property his colleague then came in to the house behind him she told the Bailiff that she needed go upstairs to change as she was inappropriately dressed she said when she turned around in the bedroom one of the Bailiffs was standing their he followed her upstairs she told him to get out be his reply was am only doing my job, he then proceeded to look through every draw and cupboard in the house my ex-partner got very upset at this stage and began to sob he then started asking questions like do you have children to the debtor meaning myself he started picking up pictures asking who these people were when my ex-partners father turned up he told the Bailiffs to leave her house as the person they were looking for has never lived at the property and I must say I have not or have never lived at my ex-partners property so I don;t no how they new about my relationship and were my ex lived,

 

Your should be contacting police and reporting an offence of burglary. Unlike certificated bailiffs, an HCEO cannot enter a property without permission. They needed your permission and did not have it.

 

the Bailiff then threatened my ex with the police saying that the police would be paying her a visit

 

Mention this to police and make a complaint under Section 40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970, its an offence to threaten anyone with police or criminal proceedings in this way. Get a crime number

 

in the night and also the next day when my father in law told them to get out the Bailiff made an imaginary phone call to the police as this my ex later found out. They then told her to tell me that I must pay £480 by 12:00am or a warrant will be issued for my arrest.

 

This is all an offence inder Section 40. http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Primary&PageNumber=1&NavFrom=2&parentActiveTextDocId=1663425&activetextdocid=1663463

 

About an hour later my ex contacted myself and explained the hole situation she told me at no point did they show her any identification they also would not show her any paper work in the end she got that upset over the Bailiffs entering her property by pushing past her and going in to her bedroom she rang the police who told her what they done was wrong they gave her a a level 3 panic number to ring encase they return and they told her no calls were made from any Bailiffs agency from her address, and a I did ring the Bailiff and told him I couldn't afford what he was asking I then told him he was wrong and that he'd conducted himself in a inappropriate manner by pushing past my ex and following her upstairs in to her bedroom his reply to this was " did I ask her for the money " he then changed the subject saying "do you want to sort this "out I told him I couldn't afford what he was asking explaining I was on Job Seekers Allowance and he said "you will have to borrow it or its a custodial sentence

 

Again, the bailiff has no power to pass sentence for failure to pay a debt. This is all highly irregular, even for Marstons who are known troublemakers.

 

that's your only option" any way I rang the council and have agreed for it to be taken from my benefit,

 

If you are 100% sure this is council tax, then you want to start the dcomplaints procedure. The council has failed to comply with enforcement procedure and ask the case to be rolled back (and check the liability itself is actually genuine).

 

The law says the council must send you a "final notice" or a "reminder" by post to your current address before making an application to a magistrate for a Liability order against you. As there is compelling evidence the council failed to do this, you can ask the council to roll the case back to pre-liability order stage and cease enforcement action immediately.

 

The law is Section 33(3) and 34(1) of the Council Tax (Administration and Enforcement) Regulations 1992, http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1992/613/regulation/33/made

 

Contact the council and ask them to comply with Regulation 33(3) and 34(1), but if they are unwilling to do so, then you have a right to ask the Local Government Ombudsman to intervene. You can even ask for compensation, the award of this type of non-compliance by a council is typically about £100 per instance. Awards can be more if you have already received a bailiff or paid a sum of money to one.

 

 

But I need some advice for my ex-partner who was very distraught after this indecent who can she turn to she want to right a strong letter of complaint but does not know how to put it in to words and were to send it

 

Complaint is directed to the Council then escalated it to the Local Govermnment Ombudsman, she should make an application for compensation. Use what you describe above.

 

to I no what the Bailiffs done was wrong if you yourself reading this now could of heard my ex-partner on the phone to me, you would know that they intimidated her which is wrong she needs help to resolve this matter could some one please offer me some advice.

Thank-you for taking the time in reading my message.

 

Kind regards

[fork-it]

it was Liverpool City Council who sold the debt to Marstons,

 

Council tax debts are never sold. Only consumer debts are traded among debt collectors. Its not Marstons MO to buy debts in this way, however arch-rival Philips has recently been sidelining as a debt collector pretending to acting in the capacity of bailiffs.

 

please explain what a form 4 complaint is

 

This only applies to complaints against a certificated bailiffs and not High Court Enforcement Officers. Historically this route is not very reliable, so your best bet is brief complaint to council and quickly escalating your complaint to the LGO the fastest route.

 

If you feel the Form 4 complaint is what you want to do then this is the form itself and its sent to the court that issued the bailiffs certificiate. Phone the bailiff on his mobile and ask which Court issued his bailiffs certificate then quickly end the call. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/form4_0606.pdf

 

seamanarts indicates the bailiff has no certificate, you could try this. http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/CertificatedBailiffs/

[paddygibbons]

Thank-you for your reply it was a Council Tax debt from 2008/2009 the bailiff told my ex this but would not show her any paper work, and when I rang the Bailiff he told me it was for unpaid Council Tax for £1200 he said I must pay one of the bills outstanding at £434.10 I told him I was unemployed and on JSA but but he proceeded to tell me to borrow it or face a custodial sentence I told him this was unfair because I new nothing of the debt to begin with and the Bailiff said it was not his problem when I rang the council they told me it was for £800 I no the Bailiff add charges so I accept that, the Bailiff then gave me a reference number and told me to ring the council and who will explain the Liability Order when I rang the council they said they would take the debt back from the Bailiffs and deduct it from my JSA. So my debt has been sorted out with the council I just want justice for my ex partner because I no those bailiff broke the rules

[caledfwlch]

Make a police complaint regarding yourself for the imprisonment threats, get your ex to make a serious police complaint for her treatment.

[paddygibbons]

How can I prove to the police that he made Imprisonment threats my partner is on her way to the police station now as we speak can I still make a complaint myself without the proving he made the threats I recorded the Bailiff this morning when I rang him to ask him was my Partners name on the Liability Order he said "No" I then asked him was her address on the order he said "Yes" I asked him for a copy of that order and he said " I don't have to give you anything mate" and hung up on me I recorded the conversation for future reference.

 

Kind regards

[dx100uk]

absolutely disgusting behaviour here by the leeches

 

but as fork-it has pointed out

 

several things do not 'add-up'

 

like sold debt and hmco collecting council tax?

 

very strange

 

marstons are a law to themselves but rarely are known to pull stunts like this

 

nothing fits here.

 

dx

[paddygibbons]

I totally agree after reading theses forums I now no things are not right the Bailiffs name is not recognised on the website that you can check Bailiff names and Company's on as working for Marstons I know these people acted inappropriately like following my ex up stairs to her bedroom she told them as she was going upstairs to change as she was in her pyjamas and one of them followed her upstairs and began looking through every draw and wardrobe in the bedroom this in its self is not right.

 

Kind regards

[fork-it]

rang the council they told me it was for £800 I no the Bailiff add charges so I accept that,

 

You dont need to accept any charges because the council has failed to comply with procedure, in any event the bailiff has not visited you, so the statutory £24.50 doesnt apply either. The bailiff has made a false representation as to how money yiou owe. Add Section 2 of the Fraud Act 2006 to your list of complaints.

[ploddertom]

What doesnt sit right is High Court Officers dont collect Council Tax. The other issue is Marstons dont normally collect council tax, they never bid on council tax collection contracts. Their MO is court fines, High Court civil debts, traffic and parking debts. This could be a change in Marstons MO.

 

 

I think what has happened here is that it is the letter headings that Marstons are using. I think you will find it says something like High Court Enforcement Officers in large type and Bailiffs in a smaller font. There is nothing wrong with them using a dual purpose letter heading and they will no doubt point out that they are acting as Bailiffs in this case and cannot be held responsible for how it has been interpreted by the OP. Sneaky I know and should be brought to book. Phillips do a similar thing, there's is Bailiffs and Debt Collectors. You have to remember the giveaway is in what they are collecting on.

 

PT

[fork-it]

I received a complaint from a tenant about Philips sending a letter to collect a civil debt, but their headed letter presented themselves as bailiffs which I thought was misleading. To me, this appears to commit an offence under Section 40(1)© of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

(1) A person commits an offence if, with the object of coercing another person to pay money claimed from the other as a debt due under a contract, he—

— © falsely represents himself to be authorised in some official capacity to claim or enforce payment; or

[caledfwlch]

So, technically speaking, in this particular case they are also fraudulently misrepresenting themselves as HCEO's! the words "High Court" certainly carry a lot more weight and scaryness within their composition.

[paddygibbons]

The letter they left has a RED border it says name of the company Marstons in I'd say size 21 font it also says underneath size 10 font High Court Enforcement Officers then in the middle of the page it says Final Notice in Red background it also says underneath " Despite previous atempts and attendance(s) you have failed to pay the outstanding sums due " I would like to ad this is the first time I have received any letter from any Bailiff I didn't even now the debt existed, there's no name on the letter no reference number just a badly hand written name and phone number which my ex said he was reluctant to give but she said to the Bailiff how is my ex partner going to be able to contact you if you don't leave him a contact number. The letter does not mention warrants of arrest something the Bailiff threatened me with when I rang him later the Bailiff also told my partner a warrant will be issued for my arrest after 12:00am that day if I didn't settle the matter or contact him before 12:00am, but when I rang the Bailiff I told him I was on my way to a local Police station because I thought a warrant had been issued he told me it doesn't work like that he said " it's a Civil matter not a criminal matter " he said unless I get the money am looking at a custodial sentence if it is a civil matter why did he threaten my partner with the police saying they would be paying her a visit some time tonight and then again tomorrow looking for me

[ploddertom]

Is it possible you can scan this letter and either post it as a PDF or some other form. I for one am interested in what this has to say as I have a sneaking suspicion of what has happened here but until I can see a copy I'll keep my thoughts to myself.

 

PT

[ploddertom]

Some reading material for you:

 

I believe this is the Code of Conduct your Council insists its Bailiffs adhere to:

 

http://www.liverpool.gov.uk/Images/tcm21-172082.pdf

 

and this is what Marstons seem to say:

 

http://www.marstongroup.co.uk/civil-enforcement-council-tax-and-non-domestic-rates-ndr.html

 

PT

[paddygibbons]

Hi there I have enclosed a copy of the Bailiff letter when the Bailiff was leaving he did not leave this letter behind my partner had to ask him for a contact number so I could ring to sort this out the Bailiff was very reluctant my partner said to hand over any documentation. I could not scan file the way you said I had to use the advance Option and Attach the file useing the Attachment.

 

kind regards

[ploddertom]

Not what I thought. The image itself is quite small but I believe where the red diamond is that says Marston Group it says next to it " High Court Enforcement Officers & Certificated Bailiffs", hence the dual letterhead function. Need to a bit of reading on other matters will be back tomorrow.

 

PT

[fork-it]

advance Option and Attach the file useing the Attachment.

 

kind regards

 

Marston is using a letterhead haing a dual function, but in doing so it is misrepresenting itself in a capacity which it is not. It is indeed, contrary to Section 40(1)© of the Administration of Justice Act 1970.

 

Send a copy of the letter to your local trading standards office and ask for a comment quoting the above legislation.

[seanamarts]

They would argue it under this fork-it

 

(3) Subsection (1)(a) above does not apply to anything done by a person which is reasonable (and otherwise permissible in law) for the purpose— (a)

of securing the discharge of an obligation due, or believed by him to be due, to himself or to persons for whom he acts, or protecting himself or them from future loss; or

 

(b)

of the enforcement of any liability by legal process.

[fork-it]

It only apply to 1(a) and (b) however 1© is not excluded, but a good observation nonetheless. Lets see what trading standards make of it.

[paddygibbons]

Hi the Trading Standards in Liverpool directs me to Liverpool City Council I'd rather not send it there as Liverpool City Council are going to recieve a letter about the whole incident, I need to send it to a trading Standards that will look in to this letter, I have never had to contact Trading Standards before over any matter so I don't no were I could send the letter to I am new to all this.