MBNA PPI Query

[Smoothound]

I'm now thinking I should possibly just hit them with a claim and see if that spurs them into action. I've done a spreadsheet and just averaged known payments to use for the unknown early payments. It comes out to a hell of a lot of money in comparison to what they think I owe them!! Not sure if my calculations are right, I've attatched and Excel file if anyone wants to cast an eye over it 8-)

PPI Charges.xls

[dx100uk]

na thats not right.

 

is the £76.80 what you paid each month?

 

if it is then use this at 8%

 

http://www.egalegal.com/compoundWindow.html

 

rests = 12

 

dx

[Smoothound]

The £76-80 is the average of all the payments I know I made which are contained within my SAR. I was advised to average these payments and then use the figure produced for all the payments that MBNA have failed to produdce. I thought 8% was added after this assuming you end up going to court and initially just use the card standard rate?

[dx100uk]

sri yes i was thinking this was another ppi claim.

 

so's its a credit card and you paid on av £75 PCM PPI dating back to 1994

and you've av the int rate too? that they charged you?

 

also didn't realise the card was £15k! that a hell of a balance for a card. esp from MBNA

 

dx

[Smoothound]

sri yes i was thinking this was another ppi claim.

 

so's its a credit card and you paid on av £75 PCM PPI dating back to 1994

and you've av the int rate too? that they charged you?

 

also didn't realise the card was £15k! that a hell of a balance for a card. esp from MBNA

 

dx

 

Yeah it's a card. Limit was £17,500 I think. I averaged the known charges which gave the £75 and just used the Interest Rate listed on the CCA I got from them which was 17.9% as I have no idea how the rate changed over the years but I assume it didn't get much lower!!

 

I just need to be sure the figures I'm working with are OK and compound interest calculations are correct. Then I will send the claim off and see what they say as they and the DCA have gone awful quiet since I said I was claiming back PPI. I assume there is a standard letter in the library for the claim with which I just include my spread sheet?

[dx100uk]

£75@17.9% on 19/11/94 till 10/11/10 =

int = £1209.22

tot = £1284.22

using this int calc...

 

http://www.egalegal.com/compoundWindow.html

 

rests = 12

 

dx

[Smoothound]

£75@17.9% on 19/11/94 till 10/11/10 =

int = £1209.22

tot = £1284.22

using this int calc...

 

http://www.egalegal.com/compoundWindow.html

 

rests = 12

 

dx

 

I've not calculated it to current date as the card is terminated and no more interest is being added. It terminated on 19/2/10 and the last PPI payment was added 19/8/09...

 

Actually you are part right though as I should calculate the interest up to when the debt was sold on I guess as I stopped at the last PPI payment. Means another few hours rejigging the figures.

 

Do you think I am right in using this figure for all the early payments someone else suggested HERE another way over the weekend which is actually possibly fairer but not as bad for them?

[dx100uk]

Claiming Interest

 

What interest can I claim?

If you are claiming unlawful charges from a bank, credit card company or finance company or claiming back PPI payments, you can claim back the interest they have levied on the charges you are reclaiming.

You can also claim interest specified under s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 calculated as simple interest at 8% per annum (0.022%/day) on all the charges and interest levied on those charges from the date of the charge until the date of (court) judgement or earlier settlement. You can only claim this interest when you file a claim in court.

Instead of s69 interest, some people are claiming interest in restitution for the ‘unjust enrichment’ of the bank, credit card company or finance company. The argument is that the bank has used my money to lend to other people at interest and therefore made a profit for the bank. In order to put things back as they would have been had the bank not used my money in this way (restitution), that profit ought to be taken off them. This profit is calculated as compound interest at the bank’s normal interest rate on all the charges and interest levied on those charges from the date of the charge until the date of (court) judgement or earlier settlement. Interest for restitution is supported by case law (Sempra Metals) - you can read a summary of the case in the [Times.]

What interest can I not claim?

You cannot claim overdraft interest on ‘legitimate’ overdrafts, that is, on that portion of overdrafts not made up of unlawful charges. Similarly you cannot claim back interest on purchases made with a credit card, nor the interest charged on a fixed-sum loan.

[edit]

Estimating interest charged

 

You can claim back the interest you have had levied on the charges you are reclaiming. The problem is that you can only calculate this exactly if you have access to every transaction on your account and to the software the bank use to calculate the interest. Obviously, we get all the transactions from the bank or credit card statements sent in response to a Subject Access Request. However, there is no way of obtaining exact information on how the bank calculates interest charges. Therefore, we need a method of estimating this interest.

 

PPI on loan agreements

This is actually the easiest to calculate. On a properly executed agreement you will find the following information: • PPI charges • APR Calculate the number of years since the agreement came into force. This can be years and parts of year expressed as a decimal (eg 2 years and 145 days is 2+(145/365) = 2.397 years) – call this ‘y’, say.

Interest on the PPI is then

PPI * (1 + APR)^y – PPI

(Remember to express the APR as a decimal – 26% should go in the equation as 0.26)

Current Accounts

Most banks use a complicated method of charging overdraft interest based on a daily rate applied to the daily balance with the interest charge added up and charged at the end of the month. There is no interest charge if the account is in credit or if the balance is above any agreed free overdraft limit.

The simplest way of estimating the interest on charges is to keep a running total of charges and then multiply each interest charge on the statement by the proportion of the balance attributable to charges at the interest date:

Interest on charges = Total charges to date/Account balance * interest charge.

Having done this for each interest charge on the statements, add them up to get the total interest charged on the bank charges being reclaimed. This method is the one used in the Advanced Spreadsheets in the Bank Templates Library. Remember that an overdraft balance is negative.

Credit Cards

The method used by credit card companies to add interest is very similar to the method used by banks for calculating the interest on overdrafts. The same Advanced Spreadsheet can be used as for Current Account charges. Alternatively, you can use this simpler spreadsheet. Again, remember that the credit card balance is negative.

Check

Some people are very surprised when they first calculate the interest on charges for their claim as it seems too big. This is because compound interest mounts up very quickly. As a simple ‘sanity check’ you can apply the following:

At 14% APR a debt doubles roughly every 5 years

At 19% APR a debt doubles roughly every 4 years

At 26% APR a debt doubles roughly every 3 years

At 32% APR a debt doubles roughly every 30 months

At 40% APR a debt doubles roughly every 2 years

 

See the original thread here for a tutorial on how to calclate interest using the Advanced Spreadsheets

 

*****************************

 

 

 

pers i'd claim up to today as they have gained from your loss

 

dx

[Smoothound]

Thanks for that

 

 

I've rejigged my spreadsheet and divided the last known amount by the months that precede it and based the unknown amounts on multiples of that. It's still a fair chunk of money they owe assuming my calculations are correct.

 

I've attached the spreadsheet if anyone cares to take a look and pass comment?

 

I'm struggling to find the correct form letter for PPI reclaim as there appears to be nothing in the Library link at the top even though it says something should be there??

PPI Charges2.xls

Edited November 15, 2010 by Smoothound

[Smoothound]

Any thoughts anyone do my calculations look OK?

[dx100uk]

put your sheet on that thread

 

dx

[Smoothound]

put your sheet on that thread

 

dx

 

Sorry I'm confused? What thread?

[Bosund]

Subbing

[dx100uk]

post 57 ?

 

dx

[Smoothound]

Well I put it up in that thread and have had 2 views and no comments so still not sure if I have my sums right. Been a bit busy work wise so not yet done my claim letter but will be doing it over the next few days so I'll also need to redo those figures again

 

I've read the 2 letters at the start of this THREAD and printed them out to use as rough guides are there any others I should have a read of before I put pen to paper?

[dx100uk]

yep i refer to those earllier.

 

il see if i can find some time tomoorow to loook at your xls

 

dx

[Smoothound]

Cheers dx100uk

[dx100uk]

very busy today sorry

 

dx

[Smoothound]

No worries only roughed out my letter so far, needs a bit more tweaking then I'll put it up for scrutiny

[Smoothound]

Right letter done If someone could cast their eyes over it and let me know any changes I should make please

 

 

 

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

Ref – policy number

 

I believe I have been mis-sold a payment protection insurance policy and would like to request a full refund of my premiums, plus interest paid for the following reasons.

 

➢ When I took out the card, I was advised that my application would be refused if I did not tick the box to include the PPI policy. The Financial Services Authority’s advice to consumers is that, while it does not breach FSA guidelines, a borrower should not be refused a loan if they choose not to buy an insurance policy.

 

➢ Due to point 1, I was led to believe that the PPI policy was compulsory not an option and felt pressured into having it attached to the card.

 

➢ I was not advised that I could get similar insurance elsewhere outside of MBNA.

 

➢ The Terms & Conditions were not fully explained to me and they were never sent out to me when I was accepted and received the card.

 

➢ Finally, at the time of querying ticking the box to include PPI I mentioned the fact that within a year I would be switching from employed to self employed and at no time was it explained that the PPI would not cover me as a self employed person. I actually became self employed in July 1995.

 

I do not believe being forced to buy this policy as part of the card application was a fair and reasonable obligation as I did not need this insurance nor would I have been able to use it once I became self employed.

 

 

I am requesting a full refund of all my insurance payments, plus interest, which total £31,862.89. I enclose a spreadsheet printout of my calculations including estimated payments to cover the early payments. The estimated payments are included because so far you have failed to provide these details even after sending me a letter dated 24/9/10 assuring me of “a full written response within 40 days from the date we received your letter”

 

If I do not receive a favourable response from you I will pursue this claim through the Financial Ombudsman.

 

Yours faithfully,

[Bosund]

HI Smoothound,

 

Just out of interest, do you have evidence that you were self employed?

 

I ask this as you might like to consider only claiming PPI back from the point at which you became self employed, obviously not knowing that by doing so you would be unable to claim if the situation arose.

 

Regards,

 

Bosun.

[Smoothound]

HI Smoothound,

 

Just out of interest, do you have evidence that you were self employed?

 

I ask this as you might like to consider only claiming PPI back from the point at which you became self employed, obviously not knowing that by doing so you would be unable to claim if the situation arose.

 

Regards,

 

Bosun.

 

I'm unsure what they would want as evidence that I was and still am self employed assuming they wanted proof?

 

I've done my claim from day one purely because they are the facts no more no less and also because I am sure they will make some stupid offer anyway!!

 

As far as the proof goes I have all my accounts going back to then but I'm pretty sure I won't be showing them those but I'm sure if push came to shove my accountant would write a letter but obviously that would cost me . I'm not sure what else would prove I was/am self employed?

[Smoothound]

Anyone else any comment before I send MBNA their Xmas present?

[dx100uk]

pers i'd delete all about the 5th arrow point

 

forget it.

 

 

as for the spreadsheet.

 

taking the first charge of 1994 that now = £1302!

dont know how you've done that sheet

 

dx

[Smoothound]

Any reason for leaving out the 5th point?

 

I'll check the sheet later when I'm home from work but it was all done on the calculator linked from this site! Are you saying my amount is too little then?

Edited December 10, 2010 by Smoothound