Logbook loans want my motorcycle for previous owner's debt

[stubs]

Ok, so the usual story of a nieve buyer being sold a vehicle under good faith to later discover it has a little secret

 

I bought a motorcycle 2 years ago from a private seller who'd advertised on eBay. I paid cash for the motorcycle (£2700) and collected from the registered keeper's address. Stupidly I didn't do a HPI check as I thought they were only any good for checking for stolen / damaged vehicles. I recieved a hand writted reciept for the bike and later recieved the V5 in the post from the DVLA.

 

Just under a year ago I was in the process of trading the bike against a car I'd found for sale (private sale again), until the other party pulled out after running a HPI check against my bike and discovering a finance warning. I myself ran a HPI check at this point, to discover Logbook Loans were claiming they had issued a BOS against the bike.

 

I contacted LBL to clarify and it was confirmed they had financial interest in the bike as they were owed about £3500 from the previous owner. They suggested I could surrender the bike to them or could pay an amount of money to "clear" the bike... no thanks and never were my replies. They called a couple of times after this but the conversations were pretty much the same.

 

At this point, I will mention that the bike is registered with the DVLA at my parent's address as that's where I lived when the bike was bought. I've since moved back into my own property but have left the bike registered at my parents place. The bike is stored elsewhere.. you could say hidden, but it's simply more secure there with better ground anchors etc.. anyway

 

Didn't really hear anything else from them again until last month.. I insured the bike and started using it again about 3 months ago and last month there was a card posted through my parent's neighbour's door (in error I guess?) from a recovery firm employee who had made a visit. I called the number on the card and spoke to a guy who seemed very polite and he explained he was acting on behalf of LBL and had come to collect the bike etc..etc. He wanted to make it clear that LBL had an interest in recovering the bike and I explained my situation and that I would not be surrendering the bike. He advised I could not sell the bike without risking comeback, which I'm aware of.. I said I would rather strip the bike and sell the parts rather than surrender it. He offered me the option of calling LBL's and seeing if I can pay a settlement to "clear" the bike... again, my answer was never. I then explained that I did not live at my parent's house, and that the bike was not stored either at their's or my current address. I did not disclose any further contact details other than my mobile number, and that could be used as a primary and only contact for myself. I asked him explicitly not to return to my parent's address again regarding this matter as no resolution would be found there and it is a waste of their's and my parent's time. He agreed.

 

This morning, I recieved a call from my father saying that he'd had 2 guys banging on his front door at 7am asking for me regarding the bike. He told them I didn't live there and the bike wasn't there and asked them to leave and not come back. They asked for my address and number and when he refused they said they would get the police involved. They left but he didn't get their details so I don't know if they're from the same recovery firm that I spoke to last month.

 

Is it worth me contacting the number I've got from last time and checking to see if it was them again? They're becoming a bit of a nusance to my parents now and I'd like to prevent them from keep turning up and harrassing them.

 

Can anyone advise?

 

Just to clarify, I will not be surrendering the bike or paying out any of my own money to these rogue lenders. It's not my debt, so I refuse to loose out like this. I understand I could make a claim against the seller if I surrender the bike, but let's be realistic - if they can't get the money from him, I doubt I've got much chance. I'd rather strip the bike or scrap it before I surrender it... perhaps I should surrender a bare frame to them (after bending it a bit so it's worth nothing to them!)

 

 

Many thanks,

Stu

[cctv engineer]

Ok, so the usual story of a nieve buyer being sold a vehicle under good faith to later discover it has a little secret

 

I bought a motorcycle 2 years ago from a private seller who'd advertised on eBay. I paid cash for the motorcycle (£2700) and collected from the registered keeper's address. Stupidly I didn't do a HPI check as I thought they were only any good for checking for stolen / damaged vehicles. I recieved a hand writted reciept for the bike and later recieved the V5 in the post from the DVLA.

 

Just under a year ago I was in the process of trading the bike against a car I'd found for sale (private sale again), until the other party pulled out after running a HPI check against my bike and discovering a finance warning. I myself ran a HPI check at this point, to discover Logbook Loans were claiming they had issued a BOS against the bike.

 

I contacted LBL to clarify and it was confirmed they had financial interest in the bike as they were owed about £3500 from the previous owner. They suggested I could surrender the bike to them or could pay an amount of money to "clear" the bike... no thanks and never were my replies. They called a couple of times after this but the conversations were pretty much the same.

 

At this point, I will mention that the bike is registered with the DVLA at my parent's address as that's where I lived when the bike was bought. I've since moved back into my own property but have left the bike registered at my parents place. The bike is stored elsewhere.. you could say hidden, but it's simply more secure there with better ground anchors etc.. anyway

 

Didn't really hear anything else from them again until last month.. I insured the bike and started using it again about 3 months ago and last month there was a card posted through my parent's neighbour's door (in error I guess?) from a recovery firm employee who had made a visit. I called the number on the card and spoke to a guy who seemed very polite and he explained he was acting on behalf of LBL and had come to collect the bike etc..etc. He wanted to make it clear that LBL had an interest in recovering the bike and I explained my situation and that I would not be surrendering the bike. He advised I could not sell the bike without risking comeback, which I'm aware of.. I said I would rather strip the bike and sell the parts rather than surrender it. He offered me the option of calling LBL's and seeing if I can pay a settlement to "clear" the bike... again, my answer was never. I then explained that I did not live at my parent's house, and that the bike was not stored either at their's or my current address. I did not disclose any further contact details other than my mobile number, and that could be used as a primary and only contact for myself. I asked him explicitly not to return to my parent's address again regarding this matter as no resolution would be found there and it is a waste of their's and my parent's time. He agreed.

 

This morning, I recieved a call from my father saying that he'd had 2 guys banging on his front door at 7am asking for me regarding the bike. He told them I didn't live there and the bike wasn't there and asked them to leave and not come back. They asked for my address and number and when he refused they said they would get the police involved. They left but he didn't get their details so I don't know if they're from the same recovery firm that I spoke to last month.

 

Is it worth me contacting the number I've got from last time and checking to see if it was them again? They're becoming a bit of a nusance to my parents now and I'd like to prevent them from keep turning up and harrassing them.

 

Can anyone advise?

 

Just to clarify, I will not be surrendering the bike or paying out any of my own money to these rogue lenders. It's not my debt, so I refuse to loose out like this. I understand I could make a claim against the seller if I surrender the bike, but let's be realistic - if they can't get the money from him, I doubt I've got much chance. I'd rather strip the bike or scrap it before I surrender it... perhaps I should surrender a bare frame to them (after bending it a bit so it's worth nothing to them!)

 

 

Many thanks,

Stu

 

 

Hi stu. give lbl a call (hold your number) ask them for the bill of sale and also tell them to take you to court. you must do this. also keep your bike hiden. dont let these people hassile you or your parants. and if the police do call just tell them you will sort it though the courts. dont let them take the bike eaither.

[stubs]

Hi stu. give lbl a call (hold your number) ask them for the bill of sale and also tell them to take you to court. you must do this. also keep your bike hiden. dont let these people hassile you or your parants. and if the police do call just tell them you will sort it though the courts. dont let them take the bike eaither.

 

Thanks for the reply! I see you've offered good advice in the past that's helped others with good feedback so I trust your advice and will do it.

 

Can I ask, will they actually take me to court over this, or would they not have a case? If they do would I need to attend, and would I be ok to represent myself or should I seek legal backing? If I lost in court would I then need to surrender the bike?

 

Thanks again for your time taken in replying, I really appreciate it

[cctv engineer]

Thanks for the reply! I see you've offered good advice in the past that's helped others with good feedback so I trust your advice and will do it.

 

Can I ask, will they actually take me to court over this, or would they not have a case? If they do would I need to attend, and would I be ok to represent myself or should I seek legal backing? If I lost in court would I then need to surrender the bike?

 

Thanks again for your time taken in replying, I really appreciate it

 

 

 

this is what lbl will do. once thet see that you are not going to hand the bike over. they will apply to wondsworth court for the full value of the loan against you. (so it will cost you nothing) also remember to switch courts ( pic your town court) so start playing them at there own game. every bit of paperwork you get tell us on the forum and we will all help you. ..... what area are you in ???

[stubs]

So they apply for the loan amount from me even though I didn't take out the loan? That sounds a bit worrying. What would be my defence in this case, and what sort of evidence would I need to provide in court?

[stubs]

Sorry, I live in Bolton.

What's your name please? I feel bad that I can't address you correctly

[cctv engineer]

Sorry, I live in Bolton.

What's your name please? I feel bad that I can't address you correctly

 

hi. its Tom. if you are in bolton then the repo company is nemisus. he will get pushy and talk about police backing him just tell him to sod off.

 

yes your best bet is letting lbl take you to court. then its a judge that makes the outcome. but being in bolton i need to see your bill of sale as soon as you can get it.

[stubs]

Hi Tom thanks again. So are you suggesting there's a chance the judge could rule against me and leave me with a court order to surrender the bike or pay the sellers debt out of my own pocket? If there's chance of this I'd rather not provoke any further action from LBL. I'd rather strip the bike down for its parts and give them just the frame & V5. Afterall it's not my debt and they don't know what state the bike is in. If I were to do this, my understanding is that they would have no further claim against me, just like if the bike was written off by myself with a 3rd party only policy..

 

Sorry for keep asking the same question but I just don't have the money to be paying someone elses debt that I have very little chance of recovering myself.

 

I don't know who visited my parents this morning, but the last lot were Newcastle based so I believe.

 

Thanks again Tom!!

[trooper68]

Hi Stubs

 

Welcome to CAG... First of you are correct ITS NOT YOUR DEBT and you have the right to tell them to go jump....

My advise is do not call them, things can be said on the phone which can be hard to prove, rule ONE, LBL lie and continue to lie, so everything by letter, keep all letters and envolopes (prof of date stamp).

 

Rule 2, the LBL agents have NOPOWER to enter anyones property and take anything-they NEED TO HAVE A COURT ORDER-and its the court baliff that follows up.

Rule 3 Stick to your guns, the treat of police action is just that, the POLICE cannot do anything, they are usally called but the only compacity is Keeping the Peace, if the Agents enter you property, you can tell them to leave as they are comitting tresspass, even the police cannot make you hand the bike back...

 

There are cases on CAG where the police have instructed the owners to hand the car over, they have found that this incorrect are bing sued....

 

You need the paperwork of the BoS, request this by letter..

 

trooper68

[stubs]

Thanks trooper68, following Tom's advice I phoned LBL this morning and requested the BOS.. should I follow this up with a letter sent recorded delivery? I haven't yet asked them to take me to court though. I think I'll wait till I've got the BOS and posted it on here for further advice before I do so.

 

Thanks for the advice about enforcement boundaries. I did kinda know they couldn't take the bike and that the police threats are only threats.. but it's good to be told that even if the police are tricked by them into assisting, I still don't need to surrender it.

 

The also told me initially that there was a "flag" on the police database to inform them of the status of the bike and that the police "may" pull me over because of this.. I understand that this is also nonsense... that there's nothing more to worry about this over a regular stop check.

 

It's comforting to know there's people out there who can help out.. Thanks again!!

[trooper68]

Yes buddy, follow up with a reg letter. From now on reg letters only..keep the envlopes (date stamp)

As for the flag watch yourself, as the F*ckwits abuse the system and report it stolen.

 

trooper68

[stubs]

Thanks for that trooper68!

 

I'll be carefull; I've already stopped using the bike anyway (due to other circumstances), and it's tucked up secure at an address different to the one it's registered at with the DVLA.

 

I'll make my request for the BOS by registered post and I'll report back when I've recieved a reply.

[cctv engineer]

Thanks for that trooper68!

 

I'll be carefull; I've already stopped using the bike anyway (due to other circumstances), and it's tucked up secure at an address different to the one it's registered at with the DVLA.

 

I'll make my request for the BOS by registered post and I'll report back when I've recieved a reply.

 

Hi stubs. winter will be with us soon so you would have been putting the bike away anyway... fighting with lbl takes about 5 to 6 months . just keep an eye on your post you will get one letter from the courts were you are only given 7 days to reply. but anyway never let this get you down just turn it into a fun game. what we need to see now is the copy of the bill of sale.

[stubs]

Thanks again Tom. Like I've already said, it's such a relief to hear I'm not the only one with this problem and it's very reassuring to have someone like yourself advise me.

 

You are right, the bike won't be getting used as much now anyway and I do have some work I could be doing on it in the meantime too. I've always wanted to strip the bike down to the frame for powdercoating, and it goes in hand with this stuff... if I do loose the case and am ordered to surrender the bike (worse case, but always worth being prepaired for), it would be good to know it's already stripped down for them to collect the only thing remaining would be to cut it into 2" pieces... obviously to make it easier for them to transport.

 

One concern now you say about the court papers is that I don't live at the address they have for me - it's my parents place. Would you reccomend I give them my current home address to ensure I don't miss the 7-day response limit? Or would this be a dis-advantage to me?

[trooper68]

Hi Stubs, No don't give your address, you can get the post office to redirect all you mail from the old address, thay way you get your letters but keeping the morons from your door... As for the 7 days issue, easy solveable, BY law you should have atleast 14 days to reply to any court letters...its often an abuse of process if you start recieving any letters by delay of the post this even includes if they send it by secound class, once you recieve anything, call the court (if its late).

 

Now, heres the thing, if you do strip the bike, don't forget to keep all the recipts for matirals work done, if they do covince the court they own the bike, you can hit them unjust enrichment.....but i don't think they have a leg really, the death toll is ringing....

 

 

trooper68

[stubs]

Thanks again trooper68 (sorry, I don't know your real name..), I will hold back on giving them any other contact details.

 

To my surprise, the BOS arrived at my parents this morning. I have scanned the document for you to view.. please can you tell me how it looks and if there's anything revealing in it? I believe from reading other posts that I should contact the solicitors named on the document to check they were actually involved - is this correct?

 

Anyway, this is what I recieved;

(links removed, PM me if you need to see them)

 

Thanks,

Stuart

Edited August 28, 2010 by stubs
Removed links

[stubs]

Links removed

Edited August 28, 2010 by stubs
Links removed

[cctv engineer]

Sorry, I've just realised they're not very big.. I've re-scanned them larger:

 

Page 1

Page 2

Page 3

[/url]

 

 

 

Stubs .... well done you have won. logbook loans can not go after you for the bike. that bill of sale is void .......... just send a letter to lbl asking them do they wish to carry on and are they sure that they want to go to court. now if they do want to go to court YOU MUST have it in chester court. i can win this for you no problem.

[121o121]

Following this thread with interest.

 

The BoS still has the name and address at the top. Can you scrub it out?

[Bookworm]

Stubs .... well done you have won. logbook loans can not go after you for the bike. that bill of sale is void .......... just send a letter to lbl asking them do they wish to carry on and are they sure that they want to go to court. now if they do want to go to court YOU MUST have it in chester court. i can win this for you no problem.

Sorry, could you clarify why Chester if OP lives in Bolton? :-?

[cctv engineer]

Sorry, could you clarify why Chester if OP lives in Bolton? :-?

 

 

Hi bookworm. very good reason. it will win the case 100%

i will pm you.

[Bookworm]

Hang on,l I will have to add you to my list of contacts first, as my PMs are closed.

[cctv engineer]

Hang on,l I will have to add you to my list of contacts first, as my PMs are closed.

 

 

 

pm sent..... hope it makes sence .

[Bookworm]

[stubs]

Thanks Tom I'm so happy you've said that! But I'm interested to hear what you've spotted so soon! Please can you PM me? I'll draft a letter together over the weekend and if you don't mind, please would you proof read it for me before it's sent?

 

Is it worth editing my photos to remove any private details? (bearing in mind I'm not the borrower, so nothings directly relating to me)

 

Thanks again for your help!!

Stu