2007 Freelander 2 engine needs replacing!

[landy_alert]

Hi everyone:)

 

My OH and I bought an 18 month old Landrover Freelander 2 (07 plate) in November 2008. It has not been used for off-roading, just commuting to work and it has now done 75,000 miles.

 

On Saturday OH was driving home from a shopping trip at 60 mph on a dual carriageway when there was a low thud and he pulled over to the hard shoulder as the engine cut out. When he got out to take a look there was a large pool of oil on the road.

 

To cut a long story short, having been towed home by Green Flag, today a recommended mechanic inspected the damage and said a piston had sheared off and cut into the engine. He said he has never seen anything like this before and asked if OH had been off-roading where he may have hit something. OH explained that he only used the car to commute each day............

 

The car is going to need a new engine for which we have been quoted a minimum of £2000

 

Of course the car is no longer under warranty (it was 3 years old in March 2010).

 

I was just wondering if anyone had experience of a similar problem and if they could recommend a course of action please or if anyone had heard of this problem affecting the new Freelanders at all? I guess our only option unfortunately is to stump up the cash to pay for a new engine...............

 

Many thanks for reading this long post,

 

Landy x

[Boro]

Not really my area, my suggestion would be assuming it has been serviced in accordance with landrovers service schedule, that it hasnt been run low on oil, the correct grade oil has been used and the car hasnt been abused then i would be looking at the avenue of a manufacturing defect to the piston, ie a fault from when the piston was made that has caused it to fail now, you would have to get it inspected by an independent expert and get a report drawn up but an engine should last longer than 75,000 miles and 3 years if looked after

[landy_alert]

Not really my area, my suggestion would be assuming it has been serviced in accordance with landrovers service schedule, that it hasnt been run low on oil, the correct grade oil has been used and the car hasnt been abused then i would be looking at the avenue of a manufacturing defect to the piston, ie a fault from when the piston was made that has caused it to fail now, you would have to get it inspected by an independent expert and get a report drawn up but an engine should last longer than 75,000 miles and 3 years if looked after

 

Hi Boro:)

 

Thanks for your reply!

 

Yes, whilst we have owned the car it has been looked after carefully, although I believe it is slightly overdue the latest service. It is in fantastic condition in all respects other than the engine

 

Our mechanic has had another look and says he believes it to definitely be a manufacturing defect and that he believes it wouldn't have shown up in the service.

 

OH has contacted LandRover and is awaiting a reply. He is also looking into having an independent inspection carried out. I will report back with any updates.

 

Landy x

[landy_alert]

Further update on this - OH has just called to say the mechanic has discovered that not only is the engine dead, but also the gear box/turbo charger............we are now looking at around a minimum of £4000 for parts and labour and that's if we source the parts ourselves

 

The mechanic has not removed the engine and has photographed the damage etc and will put together a report which OH can email to LandRover.

 

I've told him he should still get an independent inspection carried out though.............

 

Landy x

[heliosuk]

What it is beginning to sound like is an oil pump failure. This would explain it throwing a pot and a turbocharger. If you are looking towards Land Rover to make a contribution to the cost of repairs it's very important you leave the vehicle as is. Nothing apart from covers is removed.

 

You need to ensure that you have a fully documented service history.The better the history the better the chance. Don't forget also that Land Rover have no obligation to do this and the fact they are in a good mood at the moment making lots of money and extreamly keen to raise their rather low JD power ratings, means that if you do it properly you stand a good chance of success.

 

One thing is pretty much for certain is that you will not get the full cost of the repair. 75K miles equates to about half of the expected life. Also repairs would have to be done by a LR agent.

 

Let us know how you get on but until you have had a response from them do nothing.

[landy_alert]

What it is beginning to sound like is an oil pump failure. This would explain it throwing a pot and a turbocharger. If you are looking towards Land Rover to make a contribution to the cost of repairs it's very important you leave the vehicle as is. Nothing apart from covers is removed.

 

You need to ensure that you have a fully documented service history.The better the history the better the chance. Don't forget also that Land Rover have no obligation to do this and the fact they are in a good mood at the moment making lots of money and extreamly keen to raise their rather low JD power ratings, means that if you do it properly you stand a good chance of success.

 

One thing is pretty much for certain is that you will not get the full cost of the repair. 75K miles equates to about half of the expected life. Also repairs would have to be done by a LR agent.

 

Let us know how you get on but until you have had a response from them do nothing.

 

Hi Heliosuk:)

 

Thanks for your response - I will pass on your advice to Mr L!

 

I have also been recommended to look into the Sale of Goods Act which would obviously mean going back to the dealer rather than Land Rover, but was concerned that as we have had the car for some 20 months it wouldn't be covered by this - do you have any knowledge in this area at all?

 

Many thanks again,

 

Landy x

[heliosuk]

I don't think SOGA will help you . I have some knowledge of it and try to steer clear. It's not as clear cut as people seem to think with used cars. If you start quoting this at this moment in time I can guarantee the shutters will come up. Was it a LR dealer it was bought from? It's very important that you do not touch the engine so if LR do decide to look it can't be argued your mechanic has donesomething. Which brings me to the thought, how has your mechanic concluded the turbo has gone?

[landy_alert]

Hi Heliosuk:)

 

I have been reading up on SOGA and it does look rather complex - but then to be honest the whole thing is doing our heads in at the moment and I don't really know which way to turn!

 

The dealer we bought the car from wasn't a LR dealer, but a reputable small family business of some years standing.

 

This is the wording from our mechanic's report (he has only removed anything obstructing access to the damaged parts and not the engine itself) -

 

'Initial inspection shows a large hole in the engine cylinder block and starter motor hanging loose.

 

On closer inspection no. 4 con rod has become detached from the con rod end cap and rotation of the crank shaft has forced the con rod through the side of the engine block, this in turn has also made contact with the starter motor forcing it away from the engine block and acting as a lever has broken away a large piece of gear box bell housing.

 

The con rod end cap is not present, however the con rod has been removed through the hole in the engine block and is no longer attached to the piston.

 

Conclusion

 

It would appear that the con rod end cap has come loose or broken its bolts which hold it together allowing it to part company and float free which in turn has caused the aforementioned damage.'

 

So in answer to your question regarding the turbo - I'm not sure..........I presume he has established this from the evidence presented to him

 

However, having seen the photos of the damage I'm surpised that more components were not affected. I will try to load these onto this thread tomorrow.

 

Landy x

[Conniff]

SOGA is in force for six year, however, it will be up to you to 'prove' that this was a fault that was present at the time of sale, and the further you move away from the purchase date, the more difficult that will be to prove. So keep it in mind, but I would agree with Heliosuk that it isn't going to be of much help.

To be able to prove without doubt that this is an inherent fault is going to take expensive examination, probably more than fixing the problem, and you have no certainty that it will go in your favour.

 

The report you have been given isn't very comprehensive, and I think LR will want a more detailed report than your garage has given you.

 

It would appear that the con rod end cap has come loose or broken its bolts which hold it together

 

"It would appear" is not really what they want. It has either come adrift or it hasn't. Is there part of the bolts still in the conrod, which is what I would suspect, as you would have heard the rattle getting louder and louder as the cap became looser plus the shells would be severly damaged by hammering. Did the bolts shearing cause the failure or was there a gudgeon pin failure that brought about the secondary damage to the end cap.

 

Was the whole thing caused by a failure of the oilpump, is the strainer blocked with sludge.

 

So many 'ifs'. The servicing will be brought into question, was the oil used what LR recommends, was it a genuine LR filter or one of a comparable quality. You say you have already past the recommended point of a service.

 

Try and get a better, more comprehensive report and then by all means send a copy and copies of the photos to LR and the dealer to judge their reaction. If you have no joy and realise that the cost of trying to get someone else to foot the bill is going to be higher than the repairs themselves, then ask the selling dealer if he will get you an engine, and the other poarts, at trade price.

Edited July 29, 2010 by Conniff

[JonCris]

Hi Heliosuk:)

 

I have been reading up on SOGA and it does look rather complex - but then to be honest the whole thing is doing our heads in at the moment and I don't really know which way to turn!

 

The dealer we bought the car from wasn't a LR dealer, but a reputable small family business of some years standing.

 

This is the wording from our mechanic's report (he has only removed anything obstructing access to the damaged parts and not the engine itself) -

 

'Initial inspection shows a large hole in the engine cylinder block and starter motor hanging loose.

 

On closer inspection no. 4 con rod has become detached from the con rod end cap and rotation of the crank shaft has forced the con rod through the side of the engine block, this in turn has also made contact with the starter motor forcing it away from the engine block and acting as a lever has broken away a large piece of gear box bell housing.

 

The con rod end cap is not present, however the con rod has been removed through the hole in the engine block and is no longer attached to the piston.

 

Conclusion

 

It would appear that the con rod end cap has come loose or broken its bolts which hold it together allowing it to part company and float free which in turn has caused the aforementioned damage.'

 

So in answer to your question regarding the turbo - I'm not sure..........I presume he has established this from the evidence presented to him

 

However, having seen the photos of the damage I'm surpised that more components were not affected. I will try to load these onto this thread tomorrow.

 

Landy x

 

I had a porous cylinder & even though it was months out of warranty LR replaced the engine FOC. They knew having dealt with me before that I would invoke SoGA if they refused

[landy_alert]

Thanks for your replies Conniff and JonCris

 

I just don't know what to do to be honest - OH has today spoken to LR on the phone and is again awaiting their response............

 

Can anyone advise who we should approach regarding a more comprehensive inspection - I know the AA inspect vehicles for £156 and £246 for non-members, but is that just for purchasing purposes?

 

Does anyone know how much a thorough inspection by an independent body is likely to cost please?

 

We have also started to explore the avenue of getting rid of the car - either as it stands or after a replacement engine etc has been fitted.

 

So far, regarding the prospect of a px as is, we are awaiting a couple of replies from independent LR dealers who we have had dealings with previously through family members. These companies recondition all kinds of LRs and have shown initial interest.

 

We have been advised by one other independent LR dealer to sell the shell of the car at auction - which he said he would arrange and which I don't like the sound of.............

 

We would also consider getting the work done, then selling the car as I've lost all faith in the F2 myself.

 

Were we to do this, does anyone have any idea whether we could expect to recoup a similar price for the car even though it doesn't have it's original engine (the replacement parts would be from an identical but slightly newer model)? They wouldn't be brand new parts from LandRover themselves as we have heard that LR would charge up to £7000 for the engine alone

 

Regarding approaching the dealer we purchased the car from as he is a smallish independent dealer, I imagine he would be even less likely to assist than LR - LR have a worldwide reputation to protect, he does not.

 

If we start saying SOGA to him I should imagine his attitude would be 'prove it' as suggested by heliosuk.

 

Unfortunately time isn't on our side either - OH needs a reliable car to get him to and from work - he is currently doing a 3 hour round trip commute each day in a borrowed £200 banger that looks and feels like a potential death-trap when you're driving in it.

 

Landy x

Edited July 29, 2010 by landy_alert
Added something.......

[heliosuk]

Good evening Landy,

 

The only report that will be acceptable to L/R will be their own. Remember they are not obliged to do anything unless it is safety related and forms part of a VOSA invoked recall.

 

I do sympathise with OH as I do a similar commute though if anyone called my little starship a £200 banger I'd have "sort of problem with them"

 

It's important that you wait for LR's proposals at the moment so is it possible that you can post their responses so far to gauge their reaction?

 

Can you also state the engine size please.

[landy_alert]

Good evening Landy,

 

The only report that will be acceptable to L/R will be their own. Remember they are not obliged to do anything unless it is safety related and forms part of a VOSA invoked recall.

 

I do sympathise with OH as I do a similar commute though if anyone called my little starship a £200 banger I'd have "sort of problem with them"

 

It's important that you wait for LR's proposals at the moment so is it possible that you can post their responses so far to gauge their reaction?

 

Can you also state the engine size please.

 

Hi Heliosuk:)

 

Apologies for not responding sooner - I was about to when my parents called............they've very kindly offered us a loan of £3000 towards the cost of the car repairs, although I feel horribly guilty accepting it..........

 

Anyway, here's the response so far from LR -

 

'It was disappointing to learn of the issues you have experienced with your vegicle and on behalf of Land Rover I would like to apologise for any inconvenience this may have caused.

 

In order for me to investigate on your behalf I would like to request the following information:

 

The service history of the vehicle

Confirmation of engine oil used

The full VIN

 

I have sought further information regarding the engine you intend to fit, unfortunately we cannot advise whether it will be compatible with your vehicle. We are also unable to ascertain why this has happened as we have not had the benefit of inspecting the vehicle at one of our authorised repairers/Land Rover dealerships.

 

I look forward to receiving the requested information and once I have completed my investigations I will respond with the minimum delay.'

 

The engine is a 2.2 by the way..............

 

Thanks again for your time and effort over this and apologies for insulting your little starship - no offence was meant

 

Landy x

[heliosuk]

Excellant. I just hope you have not responded to the request so far.

 

Can you PM me with the details they have requested please?

[landy_alert]

Excellant. I just hope you have not responded to the request so far.

 

Can you PM me with the details they have requested please?

 

Hi Heliosuk:)

 

No, we have done nothing further re: contacting LR at this stage............

 

Not sure exactly what you need me to send via PM - could you clarify please

 

Landy x

[heliosuk]

Hello Landy,

 

I could do with engine size and copy of service history. Should have read can you PM me with the same things they have requested!! I can assure you there is a good reason for it

 

Thanks

[Landrover666]

Hello Landy,

 

I could do with engine size and copy of service history. Should have read can you PM me with the same things they have requested!! I can assure you there is a good reason for it

 

Thanks

 

Hello

I am new to this forum so forgive me if I haven't posted this in the correct format. We seem to have exactly the same situation as Landy_alert In that our freelander 2 needs a new engine as something has sheared off. It is an 5 years old and has done 50k miles, been fully serviced by Landrover and well cared for. We are at the early stage of contacting Landrover customer services and are awaiting a reply from them? I just wondered if Landy_alert had any joy with Landrover and what was the outcome? Also can anyone give any advice?

Many thanks

[landy_alert]

Hello

I am new to this forum so forgive me if I haven't posted this in the correct format. We seem to have exactly the same situation as Landy_alert In that our freelander 2 needs a new engine as something has sheared off. It is an 5 years old and has done 50k miles, been fully serviced by Landrover and well cared for. We are at the early stage of contacting Landrover customer services and are awaiting a reply from them? I just wondered if Landy_alert had any joy with Landrover and what was the outcome? Also can anyone give any advice?

Many thanks

 

Hi Landrover666,

 

I've just seen this post and am sorry to hear about your issues with your Freelander 2. Unfortunately due to other commitments I'm not around on the forum much these days.

 

In response to your query as to how we got in in a similar situation, I'm afraid we didn't.......Landrover were very unwilling to assist and as we needed to get the new engine fitted as a matter of urgency we had to go ahead without their involvement.

 

In the end we spent in excess of £4k on new engine and other parts

 

As this is an old thread it would probably be better for you to start a new one of your own so that you can attract the attentions of those who may be able to assist/advise........good luck and hope you get it sorted soon!

 

Landy x