Company Dress Code - I was sent home from work today.

[Insomniak]

I work for the Pr0bati0n Service, I have been there for 3 years, and I carry out an admin back office type role. I started there as a temp and quickly noticed that the office had a quite relaxed dress code, and I regularly came to work wearing T-Shirts, Jeans and Trainers, no manager every spoke to me regarding this, my line manager at them time even wore jeans & trainers. I then applied for a full time position and was accepted and so became a permanent member of staff, still I wore what I wanted to work (obviously nothing outrageous or offensive).

 

I have been permanent for over 2 years now, and only recently our Chief Officer has sent an email around saying that he is looking to raise the standard on dress code, and he stated in the email that “usually jeans and trainers will not be acceptable” the email went on to say that he expects all managers to “Challenge un-appropriate dress”

 

Now our Code of Conduct has a section on Dress Code, and its states along the lines that clothing should be modest, clean and tidy and present a professional image. It does NOT state “No Jeans” or that everyone should be in “Smart Casual”.

 

Recently I was in work in Jeans and my line manger pulled me up and said that I am to wear “smart trousers” and not to wear jeans again etc. I ignored this request as many others in office were wearing jeans to work still and was not prepared to be singled out just because they have a different line manager (after all the Chiefs email applies to all staff)

I then went in Jeans the following day and was pulled into her office; I said I was not prepared to come to work in trousers if others weren’t being pulled up for it too. She then got the overall department manager involved and it ended up with him sending instructions on an email to all of us stating that “Jeans & Shorts are not allowed” and also that T-shirts were acceptable as long as they had a collar.

 

Anyway today I went in wearing jeans, and the Department manager saw me and then proceeded to tell me and another colleague who was wearing jeans to “Go Home” I told him I do not have any trousers that are clean to wear, and he just said “Go Home and change”

Therefore I did go home and didn’t return to work.

The managers have tried to say that the whole office needs to adapt a “smart casual” dress code, but I feel they are just ruling out jeans, as plenty of women are allowed to wear flip flops and open toed sandals etc, as well an white linen trousers and some even have tops which could be classed as “revealing a bit too much cleavage”.

 

I have already emailed a guy in HR, who basically gave me load of rubbish and didn’t really address the issues. I would like to know where I stand as I would like to say that as I have been wearing jeans there for nearly 3 years that it is now “CUSTOM & PRACTICE”.

 

We also work in a shared office with another department and their manager has refused to back the other managers on enforcing the dress code, so his staff still come in wearing jeans. The HR guy did state that the whole office would have to come to some agreement on what was acceptable but obviously they haven’t.

 

To top it all off, the other department are the one that actually see offenders face to face and so are more of a “front line” for the company than myself.

Overall I do not wish to go out and buy pairs of smart shoes and trousers due to financial reasons.

 

I would like to know where I stand in employment law; I am not a member of any of the staff unions.

 

I do not feel that it is fair for them to just suddenly expect everyone to come in dressed in smart clothing, plus now I have been sent home, they have set a precedence that anyone else wearing jeans should be sent home also.

 

I am against going out and purchasing clothing when others are not being dealt with. The current chief is leaving in September and so whoever comes in next may wish to relax the dress code again meaning I've wasted the money.

 

Also I have been told my a friend at work that any changes on this issue would have to be agreed by the staff union which it hasn't. He is part of the union so would know more about it than me.

 

I always though that the reason our dress code was relaxed was due to Probation Officers having to speak to offenders and alot of these people would see suits & ties as a barrier. We get people coming in dressed in tracksuits and jeans with their underwear hanging out etc who are be seen by probation officers, so our clients as they are cannot exactly complain.

 

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted to give the overall picture.

 

And they chose today of all days to send me home, therefore I got to watch the England game, some punishment!

Edited June 25, 2010 by Insomniak
The People need to hear this

[Bookworm]

Well sorry, but it isn't exactly "suddenly", is it?

 

They have changed the dress code, get over it and don't wear jeans. If that's the only thing you have to worry about in your job, then be grateful. ;-)

 

Legally, they are perfectly entitled to uphold the "modest, clean and tidy and present a professional image" stated and there isn't anyone who would say that jeans look professional, unless you're a rock star. You're on a hiding to nothing on that one.

[tim2718281]

Well sorry, but it isn't exactly "suddenly", is it?

 

They have changed the dress code, get over it and don't wear jeans. If that's the only thing you have to worry about in your job, then be grateful. ;-)

 

However, it may be that senior management will not support the lower-level managers' decision, so it's worth going through the grievance procedure (but quit wearing jeans in the meantime.)

 

Many years ago, my younger sister Cathy was told not to wear jeans to work.

 

She ignored the instruction, on the grounds it was stupid - she worked in a secure VDU operator area of a credit-card company's computer unit, and felt there was no reason for her manager to object to her wearing jeans, apart from his being an idiot. (He'd once explained to her that when he was an assistant bank manager, he used to arrive at work early and sharpen his boss's pencils.)

 

So, the manager arranged an appointment for her to see the personnel manager.

 

On the day, she turned up, and her manager said "You're wearing jeans!" She confirmed his observation; so he called personnel and cancelled the appointment - he would not have her going to see personnel wearing jeans.

 

So; he then referred the case to his manager; and my sister went to see him.

 

He was a reasonable chap, and tried to find the reason for the dispute.

 

My sister helpfully explained that the reason for the dispute was that the manager and supervisors were idiots.

 

He said "Are they really?"

 

My sister said yes; she explained to him that every morning, they'd be sitting about reading newspapers, but one would be at the door waiting for his arrival (to get to his office he had to walk through the secure area.) When they saw him coming, the supervisor at the door would warn the others, and they jumped up and stood at the ends of the rows of VDUs (200 VDUs in the room) to make it look as if they were doing something.

 

The net result was next morning, when the senior manager passed through, he called out "Good morning Cathy", and my sister replied "Good Morning, Jim."

 

And that was the end of that. She continued wearing jeans for the next couple of years, till she left.

 

And not a single member of the public complained ...

[Sidewinder]

I have to agree with Bookie on this to a large extent. Any company is entitled to have a dress code, and it is not at all unreasonable to expect that staff should dress appropriately - it is not as if they are expecting a uniform to be purchased.

 

There is indeed an element of Custom & Practice involved, however the employer has since rescinded any acceptance that staff should be permitted to wear jeans (the fact that you have been asked in advance of any action being taken would nullify that argument), even if 'no jeans' is not specified in your contract, andy reasonable person would know that jeans are not considered 'smart', and you would be considered reckless in ignoring previous requests to change your standard of dress.

 

A more appropriate way of dealing with this would have been to do what they asked, and then raise a grievance when seeing that others had ignored the request. This should still be your approach. Do what they ask, and set an example, but raise a formal grievance if others do not follow suit (no pun intended!)

 

The only avenue which you might have is to make a complaint of discrimination if there are grounds to believe that you have been singled out for punishment on grounds of sex, race, religion, age etc. It may be that your employer is using you to set an example and others will change their dress accordingly.

 

I really don't think you could (or should) go anywhere with this one. It is a reasonable request, and you chose to ignore it for what purpose? It isn't as if wearing smarter clothing affects your ability to do the job, and it matters not that others (whether in your department or elsewhere) have also ignored the policy - let them face the consequences of that if needs be and make a complaint if you feel so inclined.

[Insomniak]

Well sorry, but it isn't exactly "suddenly", is it?

 

They have changed the dress code, get over it and don't wear jeans. If that's the only thing you have to worry about in your job, then be grateful. ;-)

 

Legally, they are perfectly entitled to uphold the "modest, clean and tidy and present a professional image" stated and there isn't anyone who would say that jeans look professional, unless you're a rock star. You're on a hiding to nothing on that one.

 

Well yes it is suddenly, as no other managers had a problem with it since i've been there, and it is very recently they have decided to change it. Also do you see open toed sandals / flip flops as professional, funny how my female manager can wear them still and not infringe the dress code. Still I expected at least one reply along those lines. Maybe you haven't heard of Custom & Practice?

[Bookworm]

See Sidewinder's reply, said it a lot more eloquently than I could. ;-)

[Insomniak]

Thanks Sidewinder, I am against going out and purchasing clothing when others are not being dealt with. The current chief is leaving in September and so whoever comes in next may wish to relax the dress code again meaning I've wasted the money.

 

Also I have been told my a friend at work that any changes on this issue would have to be agreed by the staff union which it hasn't. He is part of the union so would know more about it than me.

 

I always though that the reason our dress code was relaxed was due to Probation Officers having to speak to offenders and alot of these people would see suits & ties as a barrier. We get people coming in dressed in tracksuits and jeans with their underwear hanging out etc who are be seen by probation officers, so our clients as they are cannot exactly complain.

[Sidewinder]

Thanks Sidewinder, I am against going out and purchasing clothing when others are not being dealt with. The current chief is leaving in September and so whoever comes in next may wish to relax the dress code again meaning I've wasted the money.

 

All part of the grievance process state this as a concern. The requirement to wear appropriate clothing was there when you started work, and presumably you would have been prepared to spend the money if the dress code was enforced more strictly at that time.

This may be an issue if you only possess jeans, but is this really the case. You mentioned in your original post that you merely had none that were clean to wear.

 

Also I have been told my a friend at work that any changes on this issue would have to be agreed by the staff union which it hasn't. He is part of the union so would know more about it than me.

 

Don't take that as gospel - in many Unions, even the Reps do not seem to have much of an idea! This does not represent a change in your T&Cs, and even if it has become customary not to enforce the rule, the management have indicated quite clearly that they intend to revert to the original requirement. There is no collective agreement required by the Union to enforce a Term that everybody signed up to

 

I always though that the reason our dress code was relaxed was due to Probation Officers having to speak to offenders and alot of these people would see suits & ties as a barrier. We get people coming in dressed in tracksuits and jeans with their underwear hanging out etc who are be seen by probation officers, so our clients as they are cannot exactly complain.

 

Good job that I don't work in the Probation Service, for I would be inclined to send those people out and come back when dressed more appropriately - should Judges and Magistrates also dress down so as to not intimidate those who appear before them?! Joking aside, surely there should be a professional distance between a Probation Official and a Probationer?

 

Taking everything into account, we are not talking about suits and ties here, just a pair of smart trousers and a collared shirt - readily available for under a tenner. Many people understand that in order to appear presentable at work, and appropriately dressed for an office environment there is a need to buy clothing from time to time. Whilst it is clear that there are double standards here in terms of some staff still getting away with it, you should make your concerns known in a formal manner and have your grievance heard.

 

Don't get me wrong, I do think that you have legitimate concerns, but I do not think that to just continue disobeying an instruction is the way forward and it is likely to end in tears. HOWEVER, your employer should understand that if you have been singled out on this occasion, you expect that others should continue to be targeted and given the same treatment in order for the action taken to be reasonable.

[hightail]

just a pair of smart trousers and a collared shirt - readily available for under a tenner

 

I'd have thought it a tenner well spent too. However galling, and I do agree it is, public sector jobs are at risk so why draw attention to yourself in a negative way over something so minor?

[madari]

Hi Insomniak,

 

You have already answered our own question.You have stated:`our conduct code has a section on dress code....present a `professional image`.

 

I am afraid the wearing of jeans DO NOT present a professional image, and you would be laughed out of court for breaching this code of conduct.

[Insomniak]

Well they must have deemed to present a professional image between 2007 and up to April June 2010 as nothing was done, I attended our head office, met the previous chief officer and people were wearing jeans then. Again nothing was said.

 

The whole thing is open to interpretation in my eyes as someones "smart" is only their opinion on things.

 

I would have thought that the opinion here would be to stand up for what we believe in, and challenge those who wish to impose their views upon us.

 

After all they are only a company the same as the Banks we fight against on here. We could argue that Bank Charges are "in the contract" yet we stand up against these as being unfair.

 

I personally see no difference here.

[rebel11]

I think you can find smart but casual clothing, doesn't have to be designer.

If you can't afford or possess a some, ask if theres an allowance.

 

Apparently some office somewhere encouraged employees to turn up in the nude, somekind of bonding excercise.

[Insomniak]

Some rebel you are rebel11

[Bookworm]

The fact they didn't choose to enforce the code doesn't create a precedent to make it non-enforceable.

 

As for the bank charges issue, you are confusing "unfair" in its legal meaning (which has its own well defined criteria) and its social one. You do not have legal grounds to challenge the enforcement of the dress code as "unfair" in the legal sense.

[rebel11]

lol:grin:

 

If you knew me, I fight the big fights, I think dress code just doesn't register.

 

Some rebel you are rebel11

[hightail]

If you knew me, I fight the big fights, I think dress code just doesn't register.

 

First thing that came to mind when I read this thread was that people need to learn to pick their battles.

[rebel11]

Where would it end?, wrong type of paper clips? can't use them, they don't conform to my own standards.

 

Why don't you suggest that each friday is casual day so you can wear your jeans:D

 

or the alternative is get your jeans sewed into the smart trousers and walk around with a smile on your face:D

[Insomniak]

Where would it end?, wrong type of paper clips? can't use them, they don't conform to my own standards.

 

Actually Stationery is provided by the company so theres no issue, the same as if they provided a uniform then I would wear it.

[madari]

Be grateful that you are in employment and count your blessings in these hard times of high unemployment.

 

What would you rather have,suffer the injustice of having to fork out for a pair of trousers or the hardship of no wage at all? I know what i would choose.

 

I will not be making any further comment on this matter,and neither should anyone else.............Case closed.

Edited June 24, 2010 by madari

[cardiffboy500]

Actually Stationery is provided by the company so theres no issue, the same as if they provided a uniform then I would wear it.

 

I would rather wear (smart) clothes of my own choice than a uniform any day. Workwear is notoriously bad, often with a very high % of man made fibres, and sizing that is designed to cover all bases. I have been issued with polyester trousers that have at least 50% too much leg and a strip of wonderweb to correct them. They were unlined and when you walked on the polyester floor tiles there was enough electric charge to power a small town.

 

Back to the point in question, I think you be grateful you have a job (I know many people that don't at the minute, and would love to swap with you) and, at the risk of sounding patronising, perhaps take a more adult approach to this. This 'I am not doing that because they aren't doing it' strikes me as more a school ground approach than an mature adult.

[Insomniak]

* Shirts are to be collared

* Shirt must be ironed - preferably professionally

* Polo shirts must be ironed

* Shoes need to be in good repair – no worn heels, no sandals

* Hosiery must be worn with all shoes

* Shoes must be polished

* Shirts must be tucked in at all times

* Belts must be worn if there are belt loops

* Skirts must be of a conservative length. No ‘mini skirts’

* If you have an appointment outside of the office, a coat & tie or nice dress or dress slacks must be worn unless it is extremely hot, then a shirt & tie is OK. Blazers and suit jacket must be seasonally correct. No heavy wool in the summer, no linen in winter

* Men need to keep hair no longer than the collar level and women need to keep long hair neat or “up” in a professional style

* Cars need to be clean if calling on a client

* Nails must be conservative length and polish must not be chipped – no decorations on nail; normal colors; no blue, green etc

* No visible tattoos or non-traditional body piercing. No more than 2 earring per ear for women. No earrings for men.

 

* Company logo clothing items must be impeccably maintained

* Management has the right to review the above as necessary

* No jeans

[honeybee13]

What is your point please?

 

When I worked in a professional office, this was normal attire and grooming.

 

HB

[Sidewinder]

Why have you cut and pasted this from the other forum you posted this question on?

 

That is a 'model' dress code example, not what you are being asked to wear

Edited June 24, 2010 by Sidewinder

[cardiffboy500]

Office Dress Code Example

 

It appears we have a troll on our hands here!! I suggest we concentrate on providing support/assistance/advice to those that actually need it!!

[honeybee13]

Why have you cut and pasted this from the other forum you posted this question on?

 

That is a 'model' dress code example, not what you are being asked to wear

 

Hi Sidewinder, are you able to enlighten us at all please? I'm confused.

 

HB