inter-credit collecting for non sorn.

[themagician]

just received a letter from inter-credit international ltd .

they want £80 for non sorn of a vehicle i used to own"allegedly" from june 2009.

i left the address and vehicle back in 2008 with my ex partner.

i dont even remember my name being put onto the rk docs,as it was his car.

as far a i was concerned as we had split the car was his so would/should have been reg in his name,im a learner so car was no good to me now!.

i had to leave very urgently for personal reasons so this was the last thing on my mind!.

the letter also states that i have ignored all previouse letters,of which i have had none!.

how do we get out of this one,please help.

[sailor sam]

First of all, are they acting on behalf of the DVLA? Secondly are you or were you the RK at the time they are referring to? If you hadn't applied to be the RK (filled in the V5) then you can't be the RK in which case you aren't liable for the penalty.

 

__________________

Please Note

 

The advice I offer will be based on the information given by the person needing it. All my advice is based on my experiences and knowledge gained in working in the motor and passenger transport industries in various capacities. Although my advice will always be sincere, it should be used as guidence only.

 

I would always urge to seek professional advice for clarification prior to taking any action.

 

Please click my scales at the bottom of my profile window on the left if you found my advice usefull.

[themagician]

cheers sam.

sent a letter to dvla & inter-credit saying i transfered the vehicle to another owner over 18 mths ago so i do not except responsibility for the none sorn.

got a letter today from dvla saying that i had egnored the previouse letters and that i remain liable for the £80 charge as they now say !(quote)----

"failing to pursue the acknowledgement letter issued by the agency within 4 wks of receiving notification of disposal of a vehicle thereby discharging you from further liability for the vehicle " meaning ?????.

i havent owned this vehicle for over 18mths-2yrs ago.

any suggestions please.

[themagician]

cheers sam.

sent a letter to dvla & inter-credit saying i transfered the vehicle to another owner over 18 mths ago so i do not except responsibility for the none sorn.

got a letter today from dvla saying that i had egnored the previouse letters and that i remain liable for the £80 charge as they now say !(quote)----

"failing to pursue the acknowledgement letter issued by the agency within 4 wks of receiving notification of disposal of a vehicle thereby discharging you from further liability for the vehicle " meaning ?????.

i havent owned this vehicle for over 18mths-2yrs ago.

any suggestions please.

any help please.

[crem]

they now say !(quote)----

"failing to pursue the acknowledgement letter issued by the agency within 4 wks of receiving notification of disposal of a vehicle thereby discharging you from further liability for the vehicle " meaning ?????.

 

meaning they are spouting law as they see it, (or how they would like to see i )

 

their claim has no basis in law and there is no statute that supports you having to contact anyone to pursue an acknowledgement that they are not legally required to send in the first place.

[buzby]

As Crem says - they're relying on their sending of an acknowledgement letter to indicate that they've actioned your request. Without such confirmation, they hope to make the original keeper liable. Only if you are very unlucky will this be the case, but you have a battle ahead.

 

I've just finished this type of battle for my son, who SORNED his motorbike and then forgot about it, only to get a letter from the DVLA 8 months later fining him. It took two letters and legal threats (from me) before they agreed to cancel their claim (in June 2010), and in very bad grace.

 

So it can be done.

[themagician]

As Crem says - they're relying on their sending of an acknowledgement letter to indicate that they've actioned your request. Without such confirmation, they hope to make the original keeper liable. Only if you are very unlucky will this be the case, but you have a battle ahead.

 

I've just finished this type of battle for my son, who SORNED his motorbike and then forgot about it, only to get a letter from the DVLA 8 months later fining him. It took two letters and legal threats (from me) before they agreed to cancel their claim (in June 2010), and in very bad grace.

 

So it can be done.

received another letter today saying that the info provided by nme does not constitute my release from this fine imposed in accordance with section 7a of the vehicle excise and registration act 1994.

it also says " please be aware that you are(or you may be) also contravening section 31a of the vehicle excise and registration act 1994( or of the act) which commands a minimum fine of £1000 if convicted.

WE MUST THEREFORE DEMAND EMEDIATE PAYMENT.

is this scare tactics ? any pointers you could pm me, with regards to the letters you used to get them to drop the fine.

all help considered ,thankyou.

[themagician]

meaning they are spouting law as they see it, (or how they would like to see i )

 

their claim has no basis in law and there is no statute that supports you having to contact anyone to pursue an acknowledgement that they are not legally required to send in the first place.

i had already sent the letter quoting these facts to them,before this new letter arrived,cheers.

[buzby]

The letters may have crossed - was it within two weeks of sending? Does it note tihs letter has been received?

 

Do remember, my issue was slightly different from yours, but the issue of their acknowledgement is an irrelevance. My final letter to them is below;

 

------------------------------------------------------------

10 th June 2010

 

Continuous Registration Centre,

1st Floor,

Eagle Star House,

Regent Farm House,

Gosforth,

NEWCASTLEW UPON TYNE

NE3 3QF

 

Dear Mrs Xxxxxx,

Subject : Late Licensing Penalty – XYZ123

I write in connection with your unsigned letter dated 17th May concerning your 'non-receipt' of a SORN application made in respect of the above vehicle.

It is unfortunate that your records do not show receipt of my SORN notification, as I can confirm that it was posted on your official form, with the correct box ticked. I was unaware that you would acknowledge such an unimportant matter as this. Nevertheless, the issue at hand is the law requires that I advise you by way of SORN should I not wish to renew my Vehicle Excise Disk, this has been done and my duty to you is discharged. Further, neither is there a recommendation that I should use Recorded Delivery to protect myself from non-delivery or loss by Royal Mail or DVLA resectively.

Having now investigated this matter further following your earlier letter, I am afraid you are mistaken if you believe that there is any implied requirement on a Registered Keeper to advise you of non-receipt of a 'confirmation letter'. Indeed, looking at the conflicting advice on the various DVLA forms, I am supposed to receive this notification both 'after four weeks' and 'within four weeks'. In the first instance, you do not state how long after four weeks you will send the 'acknowledgement'. Which is it? With such contradictory advice this led me to review Section 7 of the Interpretations Act 1978

This states:-

"Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

As I was in the fortunate position of having a witness to the posting of your (V11) VED Renewal/SORN from Xxxxxx Post Office should you wish to pursue this matter further, I will be fully prepared to instruct my solicitor to protect my interests in this matter. No debt is acknowledged to you in respect of any omission or error on my part, and I look forward to your confirmation of this within 28 days from the date of THIS letter. Should you wish to proceed with court action, I will be counterclaiming and seeking my full costs in this matter. I do hope this will not be necessary?

 

Yours sincerely,

 

===============================================================

 

They responded with a load of guff ending with 'on this occasion' they would cancel the charges.

Edited July 7, 2010 by buzby

[themagician]

The letters may have crossed - was it within two weeks of sending? Does it note tihs letter has been received?

 

Do remember, my issue was slightly different from yours, but the issue of their acknowledgement is an irrelevance. My final letter to them is below;

 

------------------------------------------------------------

10 th June 2010

 

Continuous Registration Centre,

1st Floor,

Eagle Star House,

Regent Farm House,

Gosforth,

NEWCASTLEW UPON TYNE

NE3 3QF

 

Dear Mrs Xxxxxx,

Subject : Late Licensing Penalty – XYZ123

I write in connection with your unsigned letter dated 17th May concerning your 'non-receipt' of a SORN application made in respect of the above vehicle.

It is unfortunate that your records do not show receipt of my SORN notification, as I can confirm that it was posted on your official form, with the correct box ticked. I was unaware that you would acknowledge such an unimportant matter as this. Nevertheless, the issue at hand is the law requires that I advise you by way of SORN should I not wish to renew my Vehicle Excise Disk, this has been done and my duty to you is discharged. Further, neither is there a recommendation that I should use Recorded Delivery to protect myself from non-delivery or loss by Royal Mail or DVLA resectively.

Having now investigated this matter further following your earlier letter, I am afraid you are mistaken if you believe that there is any implied requirement on a Registered Keeper to advise you of non-receipt of a 'confirmation letter'. Indeed, looking at the conflicting advice on the various DVLA forms, I am supposed to receive this notification both 'after four weeks' and 'within four weeks'. In the first instance, you do not state how long after four weeks you will send the 'acknowledgement'. Which is it? With such contradictory advice this led me to review Section 7 of the Interpretations Act 1978

This states:-

"Where an Act authorises or requires any document to be served by post (whether the expression "serve" or the expressions "give" or "send" or any other expression is used) then, unless the contrary intention appears, the service is deemed to be effected by properly addressing, pre-paying and posting a letter containing the document and, unless the contrary is proved, to have effected at the time at which the letter would be delivered in the ordinary course of post."

As I was in the fortunate position of having a witness to the posting of your (V11) VED Renewal/SORN from Xxxxxx Post Office should you wish to pursue this matter further, I will be fully prepared to instruct my solicitor to protect my interests in this matter. No debt is acknowledged to you in respect of any omission or error on my part, and I look forward to your confirmation of this within 28 days from the date of THIS letter. Should you wish to proceed with court action, I will be counterclaiming and seeking my full costs in this matter. I do hope this will not be necessary?

 

Yours sincerely,

 

===============================================================

 

They responded with a load of guff ending with 'on this occasion' they would cancel the charges.

just bryll cheers matey!.

[themagician]

just received a letter afew days ago saying that they do not excepy my correspondance with them as an exemption to the fine,so full payment is required.

then another letter just come from trust recoveries saying that they are instructed on behalf of inter-credit their holding company to collect or they will commence proceedings through the courts without further notice.

so buzby now sending your letter revised to suite my case today.cheers.

[buzby]

Er, OK.

 

I'm not sure what you're saying - your typos make it unclear, however - it is vitally important you spell check your correspondence with them so the meaning in not lost and your interests are protected.

[themagician]

looking for the thread which covered a court judgment at horsham county court on 1st april 2010." case dismissed ".

it was about non sorn and the judge dimissed the case on the fact of none receipt of acknowledgement letter,the keeper must contact the dvla to the fact of none receipt of it after 4 weeks.

there is no statute concerning this fact!

but i would like to find the thread if possible ,does any one know where it is plz,thankyou.

[Raykay]

This one? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dvla/254049-breaking-news-dvla-loses.html

[themagician]

This one? http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/dvla/254049-breaking-news-dvla-loses.html

cheers matey just perfec !

[themagician]

hi buzby,sent your letter postaed in my thread "late licencing"

this is what they came back with.

 

This penalty was issued under the Continuous Registration (CR) regulations which came into force on 1st January 2004 and a registered keeper of a vehicle remains financially responsible for a vehicle until DVLA has been properly notified that it is off the public road or has been disposed of. A scan of the vehicle record determined that no relicensing application/SORN declaration or disposal notification had been received at the Agency for this vehicle and therefore on 7th August 2009 a Late Licensing (LLP) was issued followed by a reminder letter on 9th October 2009. As no reply or payment was received the case was eventually passed to Inter-Credit International Ltd to recover the outstanding penalty.

The Agency does not consider its actions are in breach of the Interpretation Act 1978 as The Interpretation Act is specific in that the relevant person has to ‘deliver’ the documents rather than serve or send them in the post. When there is a duty to deliver documents there is an onus on the customer to ensure that we receive the item. Although the system of acknowledgement letters is not in legislation, it has been designed to remove any uncertainty that may be experienced by either the sender of intended recipient as to whether a notification of disposal or SORN has actually been sent of indeed received.

By expecting an acknowledgement letter, the customer can avoid any additional postage costs that are incurred when sending mail by methods other than the standard postal service. The issue of acknowledgment letters should prevent penalties being issued to customers in your position by highlighting occasions when disposal notifications have not been received, or in the exceptional circumstance that the are not actioned correctly. It is not a legal requirement for registered keepers to notify the Agency about the non-receipt of an acknowledgement letter, however, we advise customers to do so. You may wish to pursue the lack of delivery with Royal Mail, however I am sure that you will realise that the DVLA cannot act on mail it does not receive.

The reference to four weeks is more to do with he issue of the confirmation letter and allows for transit time. It is important that customers do not query the position prematurely because of the extra work that this would cause. Please be assured that the four-week period is considered to be a guideline. Once notification is received and the vehicle record updated, the acknowledgement is to process 95% of vehicle registration charges with in 12 working days and this reflects the normal performance.

DVLA are requesting payment of this penalty because we did not receive a SORN declaration as legally required. Consequently you are still liable for the £80.00. Remittances should be made payable to DVLA and sent to the address above. Please ensure that the vehicle registration number is quoted on all correspondence. Alternatively you may pay by credit / debit card if you ring 0300 123 1271. Payment can also be made directly to Inter-Credit International Ltd.

Yours sincerely

Mrs L Morrison

Enforcement Officer

what was your next step and the out come of this ,cheers.

[buzby]

They're really stung by this - as in my case they said all the above but 'on this occasion' agreed to the cancellation. So, thes reasons they have not done so in your case can either be explained by their confidence in winning should it come to court, or thewy are bluffing - hoping that it does not get to this stage.

 

Who wins here will be who blinks first. The DVLA have both won AND lost on this very action, and sadly since none of these cases have been taken to the High Court, cannot be considered as precedents for future defences. Every win for an RK, is simply that - a win for that RK alone.

 

The key to your response is that the Agency may not consider its actions in breach of the Interpretations Acts, if they did they'd have packed up long ago. However, what they believe is immaterial as the recent case down south where a judge threw out the DVLAs claim and upheld the Interpretations Acts works against this claim.

 

If I was in your position, I would acknowledge receipt of their letter, saying following their recent defeat in the English Courts on this very issue, you are confident that your case will have a similar outcome, therefore as you continue to reject their claim, the next move is theirs alone. You do not accept their decision, and look forward to the opportunity of a full exoneration in due course, however you will be seeking to recover your costs in full for such a defence.

 

It's a 'put up, or shut up' response.

 

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=774506&nmt=DVLA%20lose%20court%20battle%20over%20SORN

Edited July 28, 2010 by buzby

[themagician]

They're really stung by this - as in my case they said all the above but 'on this occasion' agreed to the cancellation. So, thes reasons they have not done so in your case can either be explained by their confidence in winning should it come to court, or thewy are bluffing - hoping that it does not get to this stage.

 

Who wins here will be who blinks first. The DVLA have both won AND lost on this very action, and sadly since none of these cases have been taken to the High Court, cannot be considered as precedents for future defences. Every win for an RK, is simply that - a win for that RK alone.

 

The key to your response is that the Agency may not consider its actions in breach of the Interpretations Acts, if they did they'd have packed up long ago. However, what they believe is immaterial as the recent case down south where a judge threw out the DVLAs claim and upheld the Interpretations Acts works against this claim.

 

If I was in your position, I would acknowledge receipt of their letter, saying following their recent defeat in the English Courts on this very issue, you are confident that your case will have a similar outcome, therefore as you continue to reject their claim, the next move is theirs alone. You do not accept their decision, and look forward to the opportunity of a full exoneration in due course, however you will be seeking to recover your costs in full for such a defence.

 

It's a 'put up, or shut up' response.sorry whats an RK??.

 

DVLA lose court battle over SORN

cheers matey watch this space.

[themagician]

having quoted the lost action in the county court in horsham,and the fact i do not agree with their decision,either shut up or if you persue this action we are prepared to have our day in court,as another victory against you would be appreciated in the public media forums.

that was nearly a month ago and i aint heard nothing or blinked yet!

commmmmon dvla.

[themagician]

well we are at the end of september and still no sign of any contact,so we sit and wait!!!!.

[themagician]

we are now nearing the end of November and still no contact from the DVLA or associates,we just may have pulled it off!.

still not blinked yet!. but we still wait in anticipation.

[zoomboy]

They're just waiting for you to relax and just as you blink you'll get "Tango'd" with a finger in each eye

 

Good luck and I hope that is the last of it. Common courtesy sending a letter of closure is probably asking too much, but then again maybe that went astray in the post

 

Edit: Oh, just a thought. Seeing as they passed this over to inter-credit you could share this with them.

 

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&PageNumber=0&NavFrom=0&parentActiveTextDocId=1663425&ActiveTextDocId=1663464&filesize=3931

[themagician]

inter credit passed it onto trust recoveries of london,sent them a copy of the letter so they passed it back to the dvla.so here we are to date.

[themagician]

well! over 12months on and still no sign of blinking from me,and total silence from dvla / inter credit or uncle tom cobbly and all!.

thanks for all your help looks good from here inwards.cheers.

[madsam]

This ought to be made a sticky - people coming here for help about DVLA trying to [problem] them over LLP is probably the most common occurrence.