Ebay asked me to refund a buyer, i did, then they refunded him as well, now asking me for money

[tifo]

If you've paid the charges, you can claim them back, whether you still have an account or not, but you must have had more than just charges written off in your case, or the FOS would have made sure you had any extra back.

 

I *think* i paid them as part of my settlement which was on the whole amount including charges.

 

The issue no-one seems to be touching is that they said to me it was a 30% settlement (which it was on the whole amount) but are now saying it wasn't because they took charges into account and was therefore 75%. Does the fact that i was told something else to what actually happened not matter as i was a party to this agreement and have been misled?

 

If my claim was paid as everyone else with charges and interest up to settlement (now), i would have £1500 left over after they took their £1400, but since HFC are not offering anything the FOS just let them keep my charges and something from my compensation as they gave me no interest.

 

i would be happy for them to pay me £2900 and keep the £1400 they say is still owed as it means i get something and is a fairer decision for both.

[tifo]

had a chat with an Accountant friend today re double entry and loss accounts. He confirmed what i thought.

 

he said that if they wrote off the £1400 then this would have gone into a 'loss account' and at the end of their tax year that account is used to reclaim the amount in it against their tax liabilities. The bank would also have had insurance to claim any written off amount as they always do.

 

therefore for the bank to ask for this money again would be unjust enrichment and means they are getting their money three times, once from tax relief, once from insurance and again from me, and they would have to account for this by adjusting their tax figures for that year, which could be some work for them.

 

he said how i use this in a legal sense is up to me.

[tifo]

A question on estoppel.

 

I've had HFC offer me a refund of charges and interest, then charges only, to be paid by cheque. As far as i was aware (and them at that time) i owed them nothing hence the offer.

 

Then at the FOS they've said they want to keep the money towards write off they did and the FOS agree with them.

 

Would estoppel apply in this case?

[tifo]

an estoppel occurs when one party, by words or conduct, has led the other to believe in the existence of a certain fact situation and the other party has acted to his detriment in reliance on that fact situation. In these circumstances the party whose conduct created the difficulty may be prevented (estopped) from denying the existence of that relevant fact situation

 

For example, the bank made me believe i was entitled to the refund by offering to send me a cheque, making me believe i did not owe them any money. They further backed this belief by passing data to CRAs that the balance was £0.

 

I then passed the matter to the FOS believing i was entitled to the refund as the bank had previously offered me a cheque, even though we disagreed on the amount.

 

Doing the above proved detrimental to me because the bank said they want the money towards the write off they had made year earlier.

 

Therefore estoppel applies to prevent the bank from offseting my refund towards their write off as it is their offer that led to this situation. They are estopped from doing this and have to honour their initial offer.

[tifo]

I bought a 12.1" Netbook (a small laptop) from Ebuyer just before Xmas. It was described as a Netbook with the specs and picture showed a Netbook. I paid by debit card.

 

Instead they sent me a Nettop (a small PC) of the same spec as the Netbook but obviously no screen.

 

Ebuyer CS advised to return it for a refund or exchange upto the amount i paid because all 12.1" Netbooks they sell are much higher in price and they're not willing to send me another one of the same spec but a higher price, even as a goodwill gesture, because the correct item is now out of stock (it was a brilliant offer when i paid for it).

 

I spoke to Trading Standards who said Ebuyer should exchange the wrong item for the correct one or another one of equal spec without any extra cost because that is what we contracted for, otherwise it is "loss of bargain" for me.

 

I've spoken to the Returns department today and they said the same as CS, i.e. no exchange just a refund. I even spoke to the Team Leader but same reply.

 

I will now have to send the item back for a refund but what are my rights as i thought i'd bought a 12.1" Netbook but am not getting one from Ebuyer? Should i write in with anything or just leave it? I'll get my refund when they get the wrong item back.

 

Thanks.

Edited January 4, 2010 by tifo

[tifo]

anyone please?

[AtlantisZPM]

I spoke to Trading Standards who said Ebuyer should exchange the wrong item for the correct one or another one of equal spec without any extra cost because that is what we contracted for, otherwise it is "loss of bargain" for me..

 

This is disappointing advise given to you. The retailer offering a refund would seem to be an adequate remedy. Sure the retailer could give you an upgrade vastly superior to what you ordered but that would be as a gesture of goodwill. Since ebuyer are very competitively priced I doubt would could cut into their profit margins too much.

[tifo]

The retailer offering a refund would seem to be an adequate remedy.

 

How about the retailer not sending me what was described and paid for, even if they made a mistake in the description? As a consumer, i didn't know it was wrong and was expecting a 12.1" netbook. Doesn't the Sales of Goods Act come into this?

 

As for a refund being a sufficient remedy, in this case they've not lost anything since i would have had the right to return the item for a full refund anyway, under Distance Selling Regulations. It is ME who's had to pack the item, send it back and then wait for a refund, all because THEY made a mistake. There's been no apology, nothing, just that to send it back for a refund. No thanks.

[labrat]

true but one of the remedies that the SOGA offers to the retailer is to refund

 

what they have offered is within the act

[perplexity]

Never mind the return

 

36 Buyer not bound to return rejected goods

 

Unless otherwise agreed, where goods are delivered to the buyer, and he refuses to accept them, having the right to do so, he is not bound to return them to the seller, but it is sufficient if he intimates to the seller that he refuses to accept them.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/RevisedStatutes/Acts/ukpga/1979/cukpga_19790054_en_4#pt4-l1g41

 

If the supplier wants the goods back he should come to collect them, and the same goes under the distance Selling Regulations:

 

(4) The consumer shall not be under any duty to deliver the goods except at his own premises and in pursuance of a request in writing, or in another durable medium available and accessible to the consumer, from the supplier and given to the consumer either before, or at the time when, the goods are collected from those premises.

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2000/20002334.htm

 

Otherwise, if what you paid for was not delivered, the supplier owes you the money, simple as that.

 

[blitz]

They would indeed be liable for costs back, and indeed ebuyer usually arrange for pick up (I have had a few RMAs from them).

 

Do they have the laptop you have ordered for sale anywhere else (even with a small price difference?)

[tifo]

I sold an item on Ebay and the buyer paid by Paypal.

 

I couldn't send the item for a few days so the buyer opened a case with Ebay. They emailed me asking me to refund the buyer and no further action would be taken. I promptly refunded from Paypal.

 

Then a few days later Ebay also refunded the buyer, two days after their email to me and after i'd refunded him.

 

Now they're asking me for the money they paid.

 

This is unfair to me as a seller. Once the buyer raised a complaint, Ebay did what they wanted and i could not answer to anything the buyer said.

 

What should i do because if i pay Ebay i will be out of pocket and the buyer will have gained 2 refunds.

 

The amount is around £62.

[BankFodder]

The problem is that eBay will close you down and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

Don't you have the address of the buyer?

[tifo]

yes, i have the buyer's address for posting the item but i only need it if i take him to court for the money he's had. I guess he knows better than me how to use the system, probably does it to many sellers.

Edited May 19, 2010 by tifo

[loopinlouie]

Email them stating mistake happened with ebay and you want your money back.

[tifo]

The problem is that eBay will close you down and there is nothing you can do about it.

 

why would they close my account, they shouldn't have refunded the buyer themselves AFTER they asked me to refund from Paypal, being the same company i'm sure they could have checked i'd refunded.

 

the point is, they've been unfair and i don't owe them any money, the buyer does as he's had 2 refunds. If they chase me for the money, i can prove i've refunded it BEFORE they did.

 

i've asked Paypal to reverse the refund because Ebay also refunded him but don't know what they'll say.

[BankFodder]

Ebay are like that. They won't help you and if you cause problems for them then they will retaliate.

 

At the end of the day it is the purchaser who has got the extra money. he sould return it and if he doesn't then he is being dishonest and hoping that he gets away with it.

He is also the soft option.

 

I would send him a very nice letter asking for the money back and if he won't give it back then sue him.

 

A real nuisance - but I'm afraid that eBay and also Paypal are a law unto themselves.

[tifo]

i wouldn't have refunded by Paypal if i thought Ebay were going to do it, but they're the ones who told me to do it!

 

it's ONLY Ebay who's at fault here.

[buzby]

I've heard of this happening before - they do resolve the issue, but you have to phone them and get someone to look at your account in order to get it back.

[tifo]

you have to phone them and get someone to look at your account

 

phone Paypal or Ebay?

 

thanks.

[buzby]

eBay - they did the transfer.

[tifo]

i refunded on 16th, ebay refunded on 19th, now they're saying 15th (before my refund) so tough.

 

and "we hope this has resolved your case" ... WTF?

 

the buyer has 2 refunds and i've lost the sale price plus final value fee, a total of £62.

Edited May 20, 2010 by tifo

[loopinlouie]

Frustrating for you xxx Keep at them.

[tifo]

rang Paypal and they said they can't help. They'd never heard of Ebay refunding buyers directly.

 

rang Ebay and explained the situation. They said they'll 'write off' the money they refunded to the buyer and will confirm this by email to me, i.e. they won't ask me for the money! That should be a result when/if they confirm.

 

whether they'll chase the buyer for their money i don't know, they said it's no concern of mine. I told them the buyer has 'used the system' and they said they'll check the account.

 

but i still lose my final value fee so am at a loss of around £6. Still better than losing the whole amount (again).

 

first time i've had to call either company and got through within minutes, so they DO have a customer service department!

Edited May 20, 2010 by tifo

[tifo]

by the way, they confirmed on the phone that they refunded on the 19th so their email stating the 15th and telling me they refunded BEFORE i did was a lie! probably done to stop me chasing them.