Court Papers arrived - DebtControl V Cabot/MSDW

[creditcardmug]

Send by SD to court a few days before deadline

[Debtcontrol]

Send by SD to court a few days before deadline

 

Thanks, going to submit my defence online, saves anything going wrong with snail mail....

[Debtcontrol]

Heres a thing....

 

Been doing a few hours of research on here plus other sources of info.

 

Decided to look at my credit report and see what is actually recorded on here in relation to this MSDW card - there is nothing.

There are DCAs on there with defaults, but none match the amount in the claim and none in the name of Cabot, BarclayCard (Goldfish) or MSDW.

 

What I have also noticed is that a lot of the Default Dates are wrong; they have been moved forward - years in some instances - from reading up seems this is a trick by the DCA to keep the adverse note on your file?

 

Now it could be that the Default Date has not been modified and it has fallen off my credit report due to 6 years passing, but I am going to reserve judgement on that until I receive the replies to my CPR requests.

 

Does this sound familiar to anyone?

[creditcardmug]

Wouldn't surprise me, think of every devious trick and they have pulled it, and then some!

 

Dont forget the DCAs/banks own the CRAs, every time you search your credit file, it flags up on their systems, and usually brings a heap more trouble for you, letters/phishing/phone calls, (the results are automatically sent to all of the subscribers), you know the drill..........i never use it, for that reason

[Debtcontrol]

Submitted my defence online tonight, little drama with character limitations and wrong characters used, but I have it in now. Will wait and see - nothing has turned up in the post from my CPR requests and the 28 days are up on Sunday, hence submitting tonight as wont have time to do it before 4PM tomorrow.

[Debtcontrol]

Received a letter from the Court today saying that my defence was in and that the claimant has 28 days to respond with all relevant paperwork or a order could be filed for a stay?

Anyone have any ideas how likely this is - surely if they want to file a County Court case against me they will have all of the relevant paperwork?

[Debtcontrol]

Hello, Got a reply to my embarrassed defence in the post whilst I was away working from home.

Usual stuff, they gave me another copy of the app form which like yours has no prescribed terms - no credit limit, no repayment terms, no interest rate, no signature from them.

Also got a 'true representation' of my notice of assignment which isn't even dated.

This seems to be the basis of their claim.

Looks like it will result in a court date I guess.

Also noticed on the app form they sent that the box for PPI is ticked, so may have another angle to go at there.

Going to scan up their reply when I have more time and go about researching so I am water-tight when it comes to court.

Has anyone got any idea why they would proceed with this given the above?

Their reply was quite detailed but nothing new really. They even had a go at me at the end for repeatedly asking for info that they stated they didn't have, crazy!

[Jasper1965]

They even had a go at me at the end for repeatedly asking for info that they stated they didn't have, crazy!

 

Will they never learn? :p

 

You might have some fun with that if this does make it to hearing.

[Debtcontrol]

Will they never learn? :p

 

You might have some fun with that if this does make it to hearing.

 

Its just crazy though.

They are going to take me to court on a blacked out app form, a reconstruction of a notice of assignment that isn't dated and no default notice.

 

Going to scan up their response docs tomorrow when I have the time, theres a few pages.

[cymruambyth]

They get away with it because they use arguments that make no sense and scare people who have not heard of CAG and do not defend themselves. Plus, the DJs don'e always know consumer law and bow to the greater 'knowledge' of their barristers.

[Debtcontrol]

Hello,

 

Been a little while since I last posted, hope everyone is still as helpful as ever!

 

Having not heard anything from Morgans / Cabot or the CC for a while, I presumed that there was a request for stay granted on my case and that they were considering their next move.

 

Saturday seen a CC package from my local court turn up.

Looks like Morgans have applied to have the stay lifted and for the case to transferred to my local court. They state on the docs that transfer was not requested beforehand due 'to an administrative error'. You could not make this up.

 

So, I have a app form with no prescribed terms, mail merge document recreations with none of my personal info present that they are passing off as Notice of Assignment and a letter from Morgans in response to my defence submitted to Northampton CC stating 'Please stop asking for a copy of your credit agreement, as we have stated already, we do not have a copy'.

 

Whats also important, as I am just going over all of my paperwork again, is that I have never received a copy of a Default Notice along with all of their other correspondence, how important is this?

 

Whats going here, does anyone know what basis they are proceeding on, what am I in for here?

I'm no optimist really, I understand the Judge lottery and the other cases that have looked black and white yet still lost, I just cannot understand what their case is based on.

 

My scanner is knackered at home, going to borrow one and scan up all the relevant docs as soon as - I have to complete this new allocation questionnaire by 19/08/10.

 

Any advice? Thanks for reading.

[cups]

Hi DC

 

Will read what you put up and tell you what they said to me. I lost if the judge lottery, hopefully you will suceed.

 

Cups

[Debtcontrol]

Hello,

 

Looked out all of my paperwork and I think there are a few outstanding queries.

Any advice would be most grateful - I need to fill out the allocation questionnaire ASAP and get it back to my CC.

 

OK, here goes....

 

 

• I stopped paying Cabot on the advice given here and CCA'd them on 25/06/2009.
  
• I received nothing, apart from apologies on the delay until 22/07/2009 when they sent me a copy of my application form. Its signed by me and dated 16/10/2000.
  
• I replied, saying it was not a valid credit agreement etc etc they replied each time saying it was and this went on until 01/03/2010 (I did receive a letter from Morgans on 27/01/2010 but filed it due to having nothing else supporting their case), when a Northampton CC claim fell through my door.
  
• Particulars of claim ask for balance + costs + interest.
  
• I sent off a CPR 31.14 request on 08/03/2010 to both the solicitors & Cabot. Recorded Delivery of course.
  
• I received nothing therefore submitted a modified embarrassed defence. This defence focused on the NOA since that's what was noted in their Particulars of claim, although obviously my CPR request asked for NOA, DN, Termination Notice & Credit Agreement.
  

On the 16th of August, Morgans sent me a large envelope, they state:

In respect to your CPR 31.14 request:

a) CPR, Practice Direction 16, Paragraph 7.3 does not apply to claims issued at the County Court bulk centre by virtue of CPR, Practice Direct 7C, paragraph 1.4 (3A):

b) A copy of the credit agreement is attached to the response to your part 18 request which is attached hereto:

c) a copy representation of the notice of assignment is attached to the response to your part 18 request which is attached hereto: and,

d) the Claimant is unaware of any requirement to serve a Termination Notice in this matter.

They included:

Their response to my defence

A copy of the receivables sale agreement

A copy of the communications log

A 'representation' of the deed of the Assignment. NOT DATED

Copy statements.

 

They then go on to state:

You are reminded that repeated and retracted attempts to secure documentation from us that we have already informed you is not in our possession will result in costs being incurred unnecessarily. If such costs are incurred, we shall seek to recover those costs at any final hearing.

 

 

• I heard nothing further until 08/08/2010 when a letter from my local CC dropped through the door.
  
• Its noted on here that on the 27/07/2010 the judge granted the application to lift the stay and transfer the case.
  

I have an application notice enclosed here that lists information.

Parts 1 - 3 mention the dates of the claim and my defence submission.

Part 4 states that the responded to my CPR 31.14 request on 16/04/2010. THEY HAVEN'T, I STILL DON'T HAVE ANY DN or TERMINATION NOTICE.

Part 5 states that owing to an administrative error the claimant failed to request the transfer

Part 6 states that the claimant wishes to proceed with the action and for the stay to be lifted & transferred. Also that allocation questionnaires are issued.

I have my allocation questionnaire in this package.

 

 

Appreciate that this is a long post, but my thoughts are:

 

• I have an application form that is barely legible and is dated 16/10/2000. It has none of the required prescribed terms.
  
• They have provided a 'representation' of the NoA that they say was sent in 2004. Its not dated.
  
• I have a copy of a mail merge letter (looks likes its a 'hi, we own your account now' letter) that does not have my details on it that they say was sent to me in 2004.
  
• They have provided a copy of the T&Cs which are dated 2004.
  
• They have not, and do not think that they have to, produce true copies of the default notice & termination notice.
  
• Balance on the account is at what it was when I stopped paying, however they are claiming 290 in costs + undisclosed interest on top.
  
• From my app form I can see I ticked the box for PPI
  
• From the copies of statements, I can see that the balance went up from 57xx to 62xx before it was received into Cabots claws.
  

Anyone got any advice, most of the stuff is scanned already, but if you need to see sight of anything else, I can borrow a scanner.

My thoughts above are what I plan to defend on, would love some experienced advice though.

 

Thanks.

[Debtcontrol]

Can anyone provide a little advice here please? I think I'm on the right track, just want to make sure.

[Debtcontrol]

Hello, sorry to start a new post, but I need some advice please original is lost in the forum.

 

Need to fill out my allocation questionnaire ASAP and get it back to local CC.

Defense was submitted to Northampton CC and has now been transferred.

 

Original thread is here:http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?250651-Court-Papers-arrived-DebtControl-V-Cabot-MSDW

 

Details:

 

• I stopped paying Cabot on the advice given here and CCA'd them on 25/06/2009.
  
• I received nothing, apart from apologies on the delay until 22/07/2009 when they sent me a copy of my application form. Its signed by me and dated 16/10/2000.
  
• I replied, saying it was not a valid credit agreement etc etc they replied each time saying it was and this went on until 01/03/2010 (I did receive a letter from Morgans on 27/01/2010 but filed it due to having nothing else supporting their case), when a Northampton CC claim fell through my door.
  
• Particulars of claim ask for balance + costs + interest.
  
• I sent off a CPR 31.14 request on 08/03/2010 to both the solicitors & Cabot. Recorded Delivery of course.
  
• I received nothing therefore submitted a modified embarrassed defence. This defence focused on the NOA since that's what was noted in their Particulars of claim, although obviously my CPR request asked for NOA, DN, Termination Notice & Credit Agreement.
  

On the 16th of August, Morgans sent me a large envelope, they state:

In respect to your CPR 31.14 request:

a) CPR, Practice Direction 16, Paragraph 7.3 does not apply to claims issued at the county court bulk centre by virtue of CPR, Practice Direct 7C, paragraph 1.4 (3A):

b) A copy of the credit agreement is attached to the response to your part 18 request which is attached hereto:

c) a copy representation of the notice of assignment is attached to the response to your part 18 request which is attached hereto: and,

d) the Claimant is unaware of any requirement to serve a Termination Notice in this matter. They included:

Their response to my defence

A copy of the receivables sale agreement

A copy of the communications log

A 'representation' of the deed of the Assignment. NOT DATED

Copy statements.

 

They then go on to state:

You are reminded that repeated and retracted attempts to secure documentation from us that we have already informed you is not in our possession will result in costs being incurred unnecessarily. If such costs are incurred, we shall seek to recover those costs at any final hearing.

 

• I heard nothing further until 08/08/2010 when a letter from my local CC dropped through the door.
  
• Its noted on here that on the 27/07/2010 the judge granted the application to lift the stay and transfer the case.
  

I have an application notice enclosed here that lists information.

Parts 1 - 3 mention the dates of the claim and my defence submission.

Part 4 states that the responded to my CPR 31.14 request on 16/04/2010. THEY HAVEN'T, I STILL DON'T HAVE ANY DN or TERMINATION NOTICE.

Part 5 states that owing to an administrative error the claimant failed to request the transfer

Part 6 states that the claimant wishes to proceed with the action and for the stay to be lifted & transferred. Also that allocation questionnaires are issued.

I have my allocation questionnaire in this package.

 

Appreciate that this is a long post, but my thoughts are:

 

• I have an application form that is barely legible and is dated 16/10/2000. It has none of the required prescribed terms.
  
• They have provided a 'representation' of the NoA that they say was sent in 2004. Its not dated.
  
• I have a copy of a mail merge letter (looks likes its a 'hi, we own your account now' letter) that does not have my details on it that they say was sent to me in 2004.
  
• They have provided a copy of the T&Cs which are dated 2004.
  
• They have not, and do not think that they have to, produce true copies of the default notice & termination notice.
  
• Balance on the account is at what it was when I stopped paying, however they are claiming 290 in costs + undisclosed interest on top.
  
• From my app form I can see I ticked the box for /span style=\'float:right\'a style=\'padding-left:20px;text-align:right;font-size:80%;\' href=\'http://www.autolinker.com?ref=www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk\'AutoLinks by http://www.autolinker.com/a/span/div', BGCOLOR, '#63DD78', BORDERCOLOR, '#C9678E', BORDERWIDTH, '1', WIDTH, '-500', TITLE, 'PPI misselling', SHADOW, '1',FOLLOWMOUSE, 0, OPACITY, '95', FADEIN, '300', FADEOUT, '300', CLICKCLOSE, true,FOLLOWSCROLL, true,CLOSEBTN, true, PADDING, 0); microAjax('autolinker/autolinker_stats.php?uid=256710&fid=170&t=v&kw=PPI', function (res) {;});" style="font-weight: bold; font-style: normal; text-decoration: underline; text-transform: none; font-size: 100%; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Gill Sans;">PPI
  
• From the copies of statements, I can see that the balance went up from 57xx to 62xx before it was received into Cabots claws.
  

Anyone got any advice, most of the stuff is scanned in the original thread already, but if you need to see sight of anything else, I can borrow a scanner.

My thoughts above are what I plan to defend on, would love some experienced advice though.

 

Thanks.

[cymruambyth]

Hi is it a N150 or 149? Have you loked at this sticky http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?131499-Directions-for-N150-or-N149-Allocation-questionnaire ?

[Debtcontrol]

Hi is it a N150 or 149? Have you loked at this sticky http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?131499-Directions-for-N150-or-N149-Allocation-questionnaire ?

 

Hello cymruambyth, thanks for posting. Will dig the forms out in a bit.

Ta.

[Debtcontrol]

Hi is it a N150 or 149? Have you loked at this sticky http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?131499-Directions-for-N150-or-N149-Allocation-questionnaire ?

 

Hello, its a N150 allocation questionnaire

Trying to get a defence together today, will post up later, if anyone has any advice or words of wisdom, they would be gratefully received!

[Debtcontrol]

Hello, I have completed my N150 AQ & a Draft Order for Direction. (I've taken out my personal details).

I filled out my form online from HRMC site, then saved/printed it.

 

Posting here for comments before I send 1st class tomorrow.

 

Also posting in the hope that it may help others to complete theirs. I'm no expert but if I can help anyone, please ask and I will try my best.

Its worth noting that you cannot save a copy from the website directly, only print. HOWEVER if you have CutePDF installed (Free download) you can print to this; The CutePDF application when printed to then allows you to save a copy as PDF.

Handy if you want a saved copy of the form like me.

 

Thanks.

N150 completition no personal.pdf

Draft order for directions no personal.pdf

[creditcardmug]

You will need to amend the text of section C to suit

 

Draft Order for Directions

 

1 The Claimant shall not later than 4:00pm on (date) (being a date 2 weeks from the date of the making of the case management directions) file and serve a verified true copy of each of the following documents mentioned in the Particulars of Claim

 

(a) the executed regulated consumer credit agreement made between the defendant and xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx under reference xxxxxxxxxxxxx together with any terms and conditions that applied to it, the original document must be brought to the hearing.

(b) the default notice together with proof of service

© notices of assignment together with proofs of service

(d) a full and complete statement of account including all payments made and charges applied covering the period beginning with the day of the making of the agreement and ending on the date of the commencement of this case.

(e) any other documents on which the claimant will rely

 

2 In the event that the Claimant shall fail to comply with paragraph 1 of this order the claim shall stand struck out and the Defendant shall be at liberty without further order to apply to this court for judgment and for costs on the standard basis to be subject to detailed assessment proceedings if not agreed.

 

3 In the event of compliance with paragraph 1 of this order this case shall be allocated to the fast track and

 

4 The Defendant shall file and serve an Amended Defence by 4:00pm on (date) (being a date 6 weeks from the date of the making of the case management directions).

 

Other Information

 

Section I

If the court is in agreement, the defendant respectfully requests that special directions may be given as per the attached draft order.

 

The defendant proposes these directions in mind of the Overriding Objectives, and in particular the duty of the parties to help the court further them. The issues outlined below are the crux upon which this claim rests, and the proposed directions identify these issues and will allow them to be assessed in advance of the hearing so that this claim may proceed justly and expeditiously;

 

Without production of the requested documents, I am at a disadvantage and am unable to serve a proper defence. Failure of the claimant to supply the requested documentation will make the case much harder for the court to deal with as without production of the requested documentation will inhibit the courts ability to deal with the case.

 

The House of Lords in the case of Wilson v First County Trust Ltd - [2003] All ER (D) 187 (Jul) made it clear in paragraph 29 of LORD NICHOLLS OF BIRKENHEAD judgment

 

29. The court's powers under section 127(1) are subject to significant qualification in two types of cases. The first type is where section 61(1)(a), regarding signing of agreements, is not complied with. In such cases the court 'shall not make' an enforcement order unless a document, whether or not in the prescribed form, containing all the prescribed terms, was signed by the debtor: section 127(3). Thus, signature of a document containing all the prescribed terms is an essential prerequisite to the court's power to make an enforcement order. The second type of case concerns failure to comply with the duty to supply a copy of an executed or unexecuted agreement pursuant to sections 62 and 63, or failure to comply with the duty to give

notice of cancellation rights in accordance with section 64(1). Here again, subject to one exception regarding sections 62 and63, section 127(4) precludes the court from making an enforcement order.

 

Its is respectfully requested this case be allocated to the fast track, it is a straight forward case and is easily resolved on production of the required documentation by the claimant, should the claimant not have the documentation required to progress this case I suggest that there will be no case to answer

 

Therefore it stands to reason that these documents must be disclosed before this case can progress any further

 

Pre-Action Protocols

 

Section C

 

 

This case is not covered by any approved protocol, I have tried to act reasonably in exchanging information/documents relevant to the claim, however the claimant has been unco-operative.

On the DATE I wrote to the claimant requesting information pursuant to the CPR Part 18, in order that I could investigate their Particulars of Claim, and file a suitable defence. A copy is attached to this form.

 

The claimant has not replied

 

 

Section A tick no to all

4 reasons The claimant has failed to substantiate this claim

Section B tick yes (if it has already been transferred to your local court) if it has write that in the box, if not write that you are unable to travel etc.

section C tick no. in the box write "please see attached section C"

Section D Write the amount they are claiming, not including costs

applications tick no

witnesses write your name, and in brackets "myself"...in the other box write "all facts"

Experts tick no to the first question, leave the rest blank

Track fast track....leave the box blank

Section E 2 hours....fill in the rest if there are any dates you cant attend

Section F tick yes to 1st question...no to 2nd

Section G leave blank

Section H leave blank

Section I tick yes to the 1st question...no to the second

tick no to applications

in the big box write "please see attached section I"

 

Sign & date it etc.

[Debtcontrol]

I have a question for anyone that can answer it. Should I send a copy of my N150 and the Draft Order for Direction to Morgans Solicitors, or just the Draft Order?

Thanks.

[Debtcontrol]

CreditCardMug, Thank you.

[creditcardmug]

Send to the court by recorded signed for....better still take it in, ask for a receipt, and ask whether the other side have filed theirs.

this is how i have done it in the past...leave it until a couple of days before the deadline

Dont bother sending a copy to the other side

[Debtcontrol]

Excellent. Thank you.

 

Send to the court by recorded signed for....better still take it in, ask for a receipt, and ask whether the other side have filed theirs.

this is how i have done it in the past...leave it until a couple of days before the deadline

Dont bother sending a copy to the other side

[car2403]

What's this debt for? The other thread is for an overdraft, hence no Default/Termination Notice requirement. By the sounds of this, it's covered by the CCA and they will need these docs for their claim.

 

I'll see if I can find/link your previous thread.