Where do i report underage smoking being allowed and teachers even giving them lighters and fags?

[sailor sam]

Hi everyone

 

I've been reading this thread with great interest.

 

IMHO, the parents should be held accountable for their child(s) behaviour until they reach the age of criminal responsibility themselves. I understood that legislation is being made for this very purpose but must admit it all seems to have gone quiet. In a nutshell, if a child breaks the law in anyway shape or form and cannot be prosecuted beacuse of their age, then the parents should be. Either fine them via a fixed penalty system or give the community service. Asbos do not seem to work.

 

At the end of the day, the way these kids behave is down to how they have been bought up and not the fault of the education system. As far as I am aware, it is illegal to smoke on school premises and is the local athourity's remit to enforce this.

 

As for 'helping' these kids, yes, they do need help, but certainly not where it is in the same enviroment as what is being described in this thread; in the same vacinity as a nursery! And if they need 'bribes' to behave appropiately, then let the parents provide them.

 

I would get the local media involved to shame the LEA in addition to your petition. Good Luck!

[haggis1984]

No according to the local police its nothing to do with them as it not in there remit. The youths round here arnt scared of the police several of them have ASBOs which are broken on a daily and despite police report nothing is done.

 

It seems like its becoming a pretty big problem so Id really be inclined to keep bugging the police. Would it be breaking any laws if you recorded the abusive behaviour on a camera phone or something for evidence?

[Desperate Daniella]

Provided they don't mug you for the phone .....

 

I think you should go along to the police and complain of verbal assault. Verbal assault is usually about threats to do something to you, but if they are old enough to talk about shoving their **** in your mouth they are presumably quite big teenagers, and you can say you feel threatened that they might really assault you if you came across them somewhere deserted. Obviously I don't know if you ever would come across them anywhere other than the unit? Do you know where any of them live, or see them anywhere close to where you live? In any case they sound like just the sort of yobs who would hang around on street corners trying to intimidate people.

 

Anyway, it's disgusting behaviour and the police and unit staff should all be ashamed of themselves for not doing anything about it.

 

Sam, I think it would have to be community service - the feckless parents are probably getting loadsabenefits and wouldn't be made to pay very much at all - 50p a week or something if they got fined. These kids almost certainly don't have respect for anyone or anything because their parents don't either.

[sailor sam]

Sam, I think it would have to be community service - the feckless parents are probably getting loadsabenefits and wouldn't be made to pay very much at all - 50p a week or something if they got fined. These kids almost certainly don't have respect for anyone or anything because their parents don't either.

 

So how come when a motorist gets a fixed penalty (whether on benefits or not), he/she has 28 days to pay IN FULL or it ends up in court?

[Desperate Daniella]

Because the powers that be never, ever miss the opportunity to penalise a motorist.

 

Whereas if you are a feckless, lazy, irresponsible parent with children terrorising the neighbourhood you'll get loads of social workers writing letters saying you should be excused, have dozens of problems, not your fault, you're on anti-depressants, a drunk, a druggie, and so on, and you need help.

[haggis1984]

Provided they don't mug you for the phone .....

 

I think you should go along to the police and complain of verbal assault. Verbal assault is usually about threats to do something to you, but if they are old enough to talk about shoving their **** in your mouth they are presumably quite big teenagers, and you can say you feel threatened that they might really assault you if you came across them somewhere deserted. Obviously I don't know if you ever would come across them anywhere other than the unit? Do you know where any of them live, or see them anywhere close to where you live? In any case they sound like just the sort of yobs who would hang around on street corners trying to intimidate people.

 

Anyway, it's disgusting behaviour and the police and unit staff should all be ashamed of themselves for not doing anything about it.

 

Sam, I think it would have to be community service - the feckless parents are probably getting loadsabenefits and wouldn't be made to pay very much at all - 50p a week or something if they got fined. These kids almost certainly don't have respect for anyone or anything because their parents don't either.

 

Not sure about verbal assualy but there's something In the anti-social behaviour act about 'threatening or abusive behaviour' or 'behaviour likely to cause alarm or distress' which this defo is.

 

As GM says some are already breaching ASBOs but imo if GM gives the police enough bother they'll at least go and have a word with the teachers.

[haggis1984]

Because the powers that be never, ever miss the opportunity to penalise a motorist.

 

Whereas if you are a feckless, lazy, irresponsible parent with children terrorising the neighbourhood you'll get loads of social workers writing letters saying you should be excused, have dozens of problems, not your fault, you're on anti-depressants, a drunk, a druggie, and so on, and you need help.

 

Being on anti-depressants is the same as being a drunk or druggie?

[The GodMother]

well i wont go near them with my phone as they may steal it and sell it for fags.

[Desperate Daniella]

 

 

GEE, OFFICER KRUPKE

 

ACTION

Dear kindly Sergeant Krupke,

You gotta understand,

It's just our bringin' up-ke

That gets us out of hand.

Our mothers all are junkies,

Our fathers all are drunks.

Golly Moses, natcherly we're punks!

 

ACTION AND JETS

Gee, Officer Krupke, we're very upset;

We never had the love that ev'ry child oughta get.

We ain't no delinquents,

We're misunderstood.

Deep down inside us there is good!

 

ACTION

There is good!

 

ALL

There is good, there is good,

There is untapped good!

Like inside, the worst of us is good!

 

SNOWBOY: (Spoken) That's a touchin' good story.

 

ACTION: (Spoken) Lemme tell it to the world!

 

SNOWBOY: Just tell it to the judge.

 

ACTION

Dear kindly Judge, your Honor,

My parents treat me rough.

With all their marijuana,

They won't give me a puff.

They didn't wanna have me,

But somehow I was had.

Leapin' lizards! That's why I'm so bad!

 

DIESEL: (As Judge) Right!

 

Officer Krupke, you're really a square;

This boy don't need a judge, he needs an analyst's care!

It's just his neurosis that oughta be curbed.

He's psychologic'ly disturbed!

 

ACTION

I'm disturbed!

 

JETS

We're disturbed, we're disturbed,

We're the most disturbed,

Like we're psychologic'ly disturbed.

 

DIESEL: (Spoken, as Judge) In the opinion on this court, this child is depraved on account he ain't had a normal home.

 

ACTION: (Spoken) Hey, I'm depraved on account I'm deprived.

 

DIESEL: So take him to a headshrinker.

 

ACTION (Sings)

My father is a bastard,

My ma's an S.O.B.

My grandpa's always plastered,

My grandma pushes tea.

My sister wears a mustache,

My brother wears a dress.

Goodness gracious, that's why I'm a mess!

 

A-RAB: (As Psychiatrist) Yes!

Officer Krupke, you're really a slob.

This boy don't need a doctor, just a good honest job.

Society's played him a terrible trick,

And sociologic'ly he's sick!

 

ACTION

I am sick!

 

ALL

We are sick, we are sick,

We are sick, sick, sick,

Like we're sociologically sick!

 

A-RAB: In my opinion, this child don't need to have his head shrunk at all. Juvenile delinquency is purely a social disease!

 

ACTION: Hey, I got a social disease!

 

A-RAB: So take him to a social worker!

 

ACTION

Dear kindly social worker,

They say go earn a buck.

Like be a soda jerker,

Which means like be a schumck.

It's not I'm anti-social,

I'm only anti-work.

Gloryosky! That's why I'm a jerk!

 

BABY JOHN: (As Female Social Worker)

Eek!

Officer Krupke, you've done it again.

This boy don't need a job, he needs a year in the pen.

It ain't just a question of misunderstood;

Deep down inside him, he's no good!

 

ACTION

I'm no good!

 

ALL

We're no good, we're no good!

We're no earthly good,

Like the best of us is no damn good!

 

DIESEL (As Judge)

The trouble is he's crazy.

 

A-RAB (As Psychiatrist)

The trouble is he drinks.

 

BABY JOHN (As Female Social Worker)

The trouble is he's lazy.

 

DIESEL

The trouble is he stinks.

 

A-RAB

The trouble is he's growing.

 

BABY JOHN

The trouble is he's grown.

 

ALL

Krupke, we got troubles of our own!

 

Gee, Officer Krupke,

We're down on our knees,

'Cause no one wants a fellow with a social disease.

Gee, Officer Krupke,

What are we to do?

Gee, Officer Krupke,

Krup you!

[Desperate Daniella]

No, Haggis, being on anti-depressants isn't remotely the same as being a drunk or a druggie. It's just likely to be one of the excuses a social worker would trot out. Lots of nice people are on anti-depressants - in this world we live in it's hardly surprising.

[electron99]

Two years ago smoking was banned in pubs,clubs and many public places. I would argue that a playground is one such place. Try and take a discrete video of the offenders and send copies to the appropriate prosecuting authorities and local papers.

[hightail]

These kids are getting the cigarettes from somewhere. Maybe the local shops should be subject to the odd spot check. Think it's Trading Standards who regulate shops selling to kids.

[Desperate Daniella]

That's a good idea. Try and get the thong-wearer in too.

[The GodMother]

Two years ago smoking was banned in pubs,clubs and many public places. I would argue that a playground is one such place. Try and take a discrete video of the offenders and send copies to the appropriate prosecuting authorities and local papers.

 

 

I know which is part of my argument. This is a public place and yes it should be illegal for the smoking. In fact there are no smoking signs all over the carparks where they smoke.

 

I know the local shop is not selling some of them fags and most of them are being given by the PARENTS just b4 they get outta the car in the morning. I witnessed one guy put about 60 cigs in his pocket and not cheap ones either like B&H.

[The GodMother]

That's a good idea. Try and get the thong-wearer in too.

 

I will do but maybe not whilest she is on show.

[PriorityOne]

I'm an complete agreement with Desperate Daniella on this.

 

I work in a secondary school.... with kids that have "problems". The bottom line cause for the vast majority of these "problems" however, are parents who either don't really give that much of a stuff... and churn more of them out every year or so for a life on Benefits (I kid you not) or, have absolutely no idea how to parent properly

 

I'm amazed that this referral unit is in such an open residential area!! the one near me is down a long dirt track and in the middle of nowhere. It's impossible to get to by foot and for very good reason! I don't work there, but did have an interview some time ago and despite being offered the job, decided it was way out of my comfort zone.... but that's another topic.

 

These are scary kids.... and a plethora of agencies continue to fluff and fuss around them; offering all kinds of incentives and dangling carrots in order to try and get them to behave in a calmer way. Even where I work, which is a mainstream school... the difficult kids get free holidays, free days out, free camping trips, paid membership of clubs, gyms, as well as free taxis and other modes of transport to take them places.... the list is endless.... and it makes no difference whatsoever to their behaviour and attitude. Why would it?.... when continuing to behave like a little sh*t will get you rewarded with yet another freebie?

 

I take absolutely no cr*p in my class and over a period of time, the kids learn to respect boundaries, account for their own actions and take personal responsibility for decisions they make..... but it's a long, long haul.

 

In a society that continually bangs on about education, "special" needs and "every child matters" though..... you may have a long fight on your hands with this one GM.

 

[The GodMother]

P1

 

Thanks for your input its nice to hear from a teacher in regards to this matter.

 

Can l ask you on a teacher sense do u think l am making a big thing over nothing.

 

I obviously understand these children need to go somewhere and have not got a problem with them staying on the site as long as they respect everybody else. Dont use bad language, spit, smoke, cause and type of Anti socail behaviour or in any way make the other ppl that use the site feel intimadated scared or uncomfortable in any way.

 

Also l do understand these children have problems or issues but they dont need to behave in such a way that it cause other ppl problems.

 

The goverment says every child matters but how can they say that this is acceptable behaviour for child as young as 6 mths to be seeing?

[PriorityOne]

P1

 

Thanks for your input its nice to hear from a teacher in regards to this matter.

 

Can l ask you on a teacher sense do u think l am making a big thing over nothing.

 

I obviously understand these children need to go somewhere and have not got a problem with them staying on the site as long as they respect everybody else. Dont use bad language, spit, smoke, cause and type of Anti socail behaviour or in any way make the other ppl that use the site feel intimadated scared or uncomfortable in any way.

 

Also l do understand these children have problems or issues but they dont need to behave in such a way that it cause other ppl problems.

 

The goverment says every child matters but how can they say that this is acceptable behaviour for child as young as 6 mths to be seeing?

 

No... not at all!! It's terrible to think you're having to put up with this GM . What's the point of having units like this if the kids are still allowed to behave how they want anyway? Most of the mess this country is in re. feral kids is because of the fluff and fuss that's surrounded them over the past 20 years, IMO. It's now so bad that we don't have enough room in these units anymore.... and so they're bundled into mainstream education instead under the "special" needs banner.... to comply with Gov. inclusion policies.

 

What a world we live in.....

[cerberusalert]

In the early '80s my ex-wife who, was a Secondary teacher, and I were shopping at our local supermarket when she noticed a teenager of about 15/16 who was working there part time filling the chest freezers, she pointed him out to me and told me that he'd put his hand up her skirt at school earlier in the day. I promptly marched up to him grabbing him by the scruff of the neck and tightly by the scrotum and dumped him into the freezer slamming the lid shut.

 

Floor staff appeared from all directions & thinking on my feet I told them that the little scrote had put his hand up my wife's skirt, but I said it in such a way that it appeared as if he'd just done it. Not only did he suffer a severally bruised ego but also very tender testicles & instant dismissal.

 

No he never made a complaint and nothing was pursued over the matter. But I bet he never sexually assaulted another woman again.

[PriorityOne]

I promptly marched up to him grabbing him by the scruff of the neck and tightly by the scrotum and dumped him into the freezer slamming the lid shut.

 

 

Brilliant!!

[Desperate Daniella]

The issue here is that it's been allowed to go on, and in some cases we are on the third generation of these feral families.

 

Many years ago when I went ice-skating, all the regular skaters (ones who took lessons outside the public hours) knew each other and one day I bumped into a slightly older girl on the bus, and started talking to her, and she told me she had had "a right laugh in school" as her friend had been reading a magazine and when the teacher asked her what she was doing she put it in the desk to hide it. The teacher came over and opened the desk and this girl slammed the desktop down on her hand very hard and hurt her. I was horrified. I went to a school where this kind of thing just couldn't happen. We would have been thrown out for behaviour like that, but nothing happened to that girl. That was about 40 years ago. Those children will have their own children and grandchildren by now - all brought up (if we can call it that) in the same way. The teachers (and this one can't have been the only one) were making allowances for totally unacceptable behaviour even then.

 

The problem is (and I expect I'll get screamed at here by some people) the size of the schools. When you had schools of, say, 300-600 children, the head of the school and the staff knew everyone. It is possible now for children to go through all their years at secondary school without some of the staff actually knowing who they are. The stars will shine, the thugs will be noticed obviously, but for a huge number of children they go through the current system as just fodder. They will, if they are very lucky, get a great teacher like PriorityOne who actually will make them sit up and listen, but equally there are a huge number of teachers who just leave it all behind when they go home, and go through the process, churning them out.

 

What happened to inspirational teachers who cared about young minds? They were probably deemed not to be PC enough so they have retired, and the new intake get all the fluff-stuff that P1 is referring to and it's more about the children's rights than anything else. They'll turn a blind eye to bad behaviour they may see because now they can't just go and give the child a punishment, and it'll result in form-filling ad infinitum, so why would they bother?

 

And it's all so sad...... There will be genuine talent in some of these thugs if only someone bothered to find it, and that's almost impossible until they learn to behave like decent human beings. What a waste.

 

There are amazing people out there who have started clubs for deprived people - wonderful lady in South London whose name I can't remember and another guy in East London - and they take these kids in hand and the kids want to be there and know that they'll be thrown out if they misbehave - and that's where the Government needs to be giving grant money.

 

Rant over.

 

DD

[Desperate Daniella]

Good for you, cerberusalert.

 

Instant (or almost instant) punishment to fit the crime. Fab.

[PriorityOne]

It's very much a "marmite" job DD; one day I love it, the next I hate it.

 

The biggest problem I come up against are outside agencies and Gov. policy though. One of my LSAs was called a c*** the other day, after a student grabbed her and put his face inches from hers. He was excluded for a week and then allowed time out if he felt that he was losing his temper. He wasn't made accountable for anything (by management)...... and because of his ongoing attitude, I'm having seperate battles with him on a daily basis (which I will win eventually). This was all because he was asked to remove his outdoor coat, by the way.

 

Since that time, he's gone around thinking he can do what he likes.... and the system more or less backs that up. Fortunately, I have developed an attitude to go with the job and will not back down in front of a child.... which means that they get to know exactly where they stand with me.... proving that it's possible to teach standards of behaviour at all levels.

 

Unfortunately, this kind of behaviour is getting more commonplace by the day and no-one can tackle it properly until the Gov. wake up and realise that it's a growing problem that needs to be dealt with at ground level, so to speak.

 

That's why GM may have a struggle with this.... because the Gov. and associated agencies tend to see them as deprived little beings, who need pampering because they've missed out on things that "normal" children have and need help to feel warm and fuzzy inside.

 

What a crock of sh*t...

[Desperate Daniella]

Totally agree with you, and have so much admiration for you for being one of the decreasing number of teachers today who will see the little ****s for what they are and stand up to them.

 

And I bet if she'd retaliated in the way cerberusalert did and grabbed his ****s in self-defence she'd have been prosecuted for assault. (Although in fact she would have been totally justified in doing that if she was genuinely terrified - and I would have been.)

[PriorityOne]

And I bet if she'd retaliated in the way cerberusalert did and grabbed his ****s in self-defence she'd have been prosecuted for assault. (Although in fact she would have been totally justified in doing that if she was genuinely terrified - and I would have been.)

 

We did talk about that actually.... and it's probably why teachers are leaving the profession in droves.

 

I never planned on being a teacher.... it just evolved that way over time, so if I was to get sacked... I'd just go and do something else. People who've dedicated themselves to teaching for years though would be crushed to lose their job over an incident like that.