Employment and Support Allowance appeal

[OneStepEachDay]

Can anyone help me with any advice?

 

I have a depressive illness, which I am struggling to recover from - I am making a little progress although I still feel some things overwhelm me.

 

I was getting ESA and I am doing everything that they ask me to like going to Pathways to Work and have registered for Condition Management Program. I also attend my GP and CPN regularly, and when I was with my previous employment I attend a OHW appointment but I no longer have a job due to my incapacity.

 

I attended the medical that was required with ESA and arrived 15mins early as per the letter I received I was told that I would be taken within 30mins of my arrival time which would be only 15mins after my appointment time - I didn't get taken until a full hour after my appointment time so I had been waiting 90mins - by this point I was struggling with a panic attack and when I was taken to the room for my assessment I dissolved into tears. However I have a built in reaction that I cannot prevent which makes me stay polite at all times - even when in a panic attack.

 

This morning I received a letter telling me I had 0 points - they seem to have ignored my panic attack and also it appears that they did not contact my GP or CPN for further information.

 

This led to a major panic attack this morning which I could only stop with medication. I have contacted JSA and ESA appeals and have also asked my GP to provide me with a letter to back up my condition. I don't know what to do or where to go - I am still signed off work until 16th March - I am stuck between a rock and a hard place, I am skilled and if I went into a job just now I would just loose it right away due to my incapacity so I really don't want a bad job record messing up my skilled CV.

 

I am soooo lost - I just want to get better and back into work but everytime I get a step forward in my recovery it seems that I am pushed two steps back!!

[RaeUK]

Hi oneStep, glad you're appealing the decision. Don't be dismayed by it. There is a considerable number of people getting null points. Your ESA should continue, at the reduced rate until your appeal. This wiill be many months away. I appealed in Aug 09 and have no date yet other than after March the first.

Do attend the Condition Management Programme. I did several of the modules and was surprised at how much I got out of it.

Good luck.

Rae.

[Uncertain]

One Step

 

I had a similar but less extreme experience to yours and "scored" six points.

 

I appealed sending in copies of letters written by an Occupational Health Physician to my employers. This convinced them to reverse the decision and place me in the support group without it going to a formal appeal.

 

Sadly our experience seems all too common. From what I have heard you do need some medical evidence to send in and a letter from you GP will be a good start.

 

Have you seen anybody else? If, for example, they have written to your GP or employers you have a right to a copy and this will also help.

 

Best of luck

[OneStepEachDay]

Thanks guys for your support!

 

@Kelcou - I've only just been registered with the Condition Management Programme - my first appointment is next week and I'm not really looking forward to it, meeting new people tends to make me panic.

 

@Uncertain - No, they didn't even contact my GP or CPN, they made the decision on what they thought on the day - I'm so upset that they don't even seem to have noticed the Panic Attack, the room was swimming, my heart was hammering, I was trembling and was in tears - but obviously that means that I have no problems!! (Sorry for the sarcasm but I don't understand why they think it was normal!!). I have contacted my GP and should be able to pick up a back up letter next week, and I've also sent them a letter giving them full consent to contact my CPN and advised them that I have several personal witnesses who see me (and my condition) on an regular basis have offered their support by consenting to be interviewed on how my condition affects me.

 

I got another letter this morning advising me other benefits to apply for but it seems that I need to be looking for work to get them - Don't get me wrong I would dearly love to work but I need to get better first!!

[RaeUK]

My CMP was incredibly easy going and friendly. You will probably meet several people with similar health problems as yourself. I can't recall the names, but you'll find at least a couple of modules which will be of benefit to you!

 

IMO where possible it is always best to attend a tribunal in person.

 

The DWP has never contacted my GP for information. I believe this is a deliberate snub given the DWPs very misguided view that GPs cannot be trusted. This has caused a great deal of resentment between GPs and the DWP. Quite rightly so.

 

Rae.

Edited February 6, 2010 by RaeUK
tie poo

[Uncertain]

From my own experience, plus others I have spoken to, I've come to the conclusion that you are as well just going through the motions of the so called medical and expect to fail. At least that way you are not disappointed!

 

If you keep any additional medical information "up your sleeve" and just present it when you write to appeal the decision this often seems to be successful. In my case this moved me from six points to the support group without having to go to a formal appeal. I've heard of others getting zero points overturned in the same way.

 

Frankly it stinks and is the last thing one need when suffering from this type of problem.

 

Playing devil's advocate for a moment, I suspect it is true to say that you could undertake certain types of work right now even with you current condition? The problem is that work that can be managed with this type of medical problem is hard (or impossible) to find. I can well understand that having to go through the JobCentre type process to "prove" that most things are impossible at the moment in daunting and damaging. But somehow they system seems unable to recognise that!

[OneStepEachDay]

Thanks again your you advice guys!

 

@Kelcou - I know the CMP will probably be good for me but I'm not really good with new things at the moment and I tend to work situations up as worse than they are. If my appeal goes to tribunal I do intend to go in person if only for the reason that they can see with their own eyes what new situations do to me. I'm soooo angry that they didn't contact my GP as she's seen me break down several times in her office and had advised me last year that if I didn't improve I would end up in hospital, but obviously the DWP don't care about that!!

 

@Uncertain - When I sent my appeal off I included off of my own back a further information sheet with lots of details on it, and also advised them of the steps that I took on the day that I received the letter and also called them so that they could hear the panic attack that I was having. the girl on the phone seemed to be very supportive and agreed that in her opinion I was unfit to work. I wish I could work just now but until I get back to 'normal' it's not possible at the moment.

[Uncertain]

In my case (about seven months ago) it only took a few days between sending in the appeal with doctor's letters etc and hearing back that the decision had be reversed in my favour. I hope this happens in your case too.

[OneStepEachDay]

Thanks, I'm trying not to get too optimistic though

[RaeUK]

Whatever happens, Onestep, good luck. Do keep us posted with how it goes, I hope you get the decision overturned without having to go to tribunal. If not, you'll get plenty of advice for what to do should you need it.

Also, if the Site Team don't mind, do let us know how you get on with CMP. The reason I ask is that it is - I believe - only on trial in certain NHS areas and is yet to role out nationally. I found it very usefull and my main concern is that, in these days of budget cuts, it'll end up as an excellent initiative that slips away without notice!

Best wishes.

Rae.

Edited February 8, 2010 by RaeUK
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[sparky27]

Thanks guys for your support!

 

@Kelcou - I've only just been registered with the Condition Management Programme - my first appointment is next week and I'm not really looking forward to it, meeting new people tends to make me panic.

 

@Uncertain - No, they didn't even contact my GP or CPN, they made the decision on what they thought on the day - I'm so upset that they don't even seem to have noticed the Panic Attack, the room was swimming, my heart was hammering, I was trembling and was in tears - but obviously that means that I have no problems!! (Sorry for the sarcasm but I don't understand why they think it was normal!!). I have contacted my GP and should be able to pick up a back up letter next week, and I've also sent them a letter giving them full consent to contact my CPN and advised them that I have several personal witnesses who see me (and my condition) on an regular basis have offered their support by consenting to be interviewed on how my condition affects me.

 

I got another letter this morning advising me other benefits to apply for but it seems that I need to be looking for work to get them - Don't get me wrong I would dearly love to work but I need to get better first!!

 

hi i registered for condition management programme and was waste of time. tried to get me to write down my thoughts every night, tried to write me a diet plan (im average weight for my size), tied to get me to write down what i did everyday and also wanted me to over do myself with exercise which i had told them i was not allowd to do. they get paid by social some way or another so why would people think they could help, dont listen to job centre as ive been told they get bonuses to getting people back to work. watch them, i wanted help understanding my problem and just got a bloody head ache trying to get out of it. i just didnt answer the phone to them or read the letters and they wouldnt get the hint. if u r seriously concidering this option find out all u can fist and good luck. how u have more luck than i did.

[RaeUK]

Hi sparky27,

I'm sorry to hear CMP wasn't for you. Presumably there must be some variations dependant on location. Obviously, my experience was completely different and highly commendable. [Mind you, I'm easily swayed by free coffee...]. It's an NHS funded initiative to help individuals manage their condition and nothing to do with getting people into work to be honest.

Best wishes

Rae

[sparky27]

Hi sparky27,

I'm sorry to hear CMP wasn't for you. Presumably there must be some variations dependant on location. Obviously, my experience was completely different and highly commendable. [Mind you, I'm easily swayed by free coffee...]. It's an NHS funded initiative to help individuals manage their condition and nothing to do with getting people into work to be honest.

Best wishes

Rae

 

 

hi rae, sorry i was told by job centre it was funded by them, wouldnt be the first lie they have told me. apart from giving me hell they put me at my doctors surgery first for meetings then decided to move it another 10 miles away without consulting me first. i appologise and now say that feel free to take cmp but keep involved and dont let them make decisions for u as i was pushed into somethings without realising till afterwards. and make sure u get the free coffee because i didnt get offered. oh yes and i had a student sit in on me who ended up asking most of the questions and sorting out most of the tasks. i understand students have to learn but when it comes down to dealing with the ins and outs of peoples lives they should sit back and take note instead of getting too involved, i went there because i thought i would be getting proffessional help not advice from a student.

thanks for replying and putting me right rae.

[antone]

, dont listen to job centre as ive been told they get bonuses to getting people back to work.

 

Jobcentre staff (at least, the ones you're likely to deal with) are under no circumstances paid bonuses for getting people into work.

 

While we're on the subject, they're not paid to deny benefits, be rude on the phone, lose your med cert, or anything else for that matter. Sometimes these things just happen.

 

I tell you something, though. When I worked there, I had this idea that I should get a compensation payment every time I was addressed as "You people". You know, like "You people get bonuses for forcing us back to work!"

 

One serious point - Pathways to Work provider organisations are paid on the basis of the number of people they find jobs for. I don't know if the individual staff get bonuses, but it doesn't really matter because as long as you show up and participate in the interviews, they can't do anything at all to interfere with your payments.

[sparky27]

Jobcentre staff (at least, the ones you're likely to deal with) are under no circumstances paid bonuses for getting people into work.

 

While we're on the subject, they're not paid to deny benefits, be rude on the phone, lose your med cert, or anything else for that matter. Sometimes these things just happen.

 

I tell you something, though. When I worked there, I had this idea that I should get a compensation payment every time I was addressed as "You people". You know, like "You people get bonuses for forcing us back to work!"

 

One serious point - Pathways to Work provider organisations are paid on the basis of the number of people they find jobs for. I don't know if the individual staff get bonuses, but it doesn't really matter because as long as you show up and participate in the interviews, they can't do anything at all to interfere with your payments.

 

just seams to be a coincidece that job centre has lost my medical certificates, specialist letters, drs letters, gave me appointments before the letters have arrived wouldnt give me tribuneral services number and failed on 7 times to respond to written letters asking about missing info and lost my tribunal notes before i received them. and a mate i met through 1 of these sites has had the same problems

[sparky27]

Jobcentre staff (at least, the ones you're likely to deal with) are under no circumstances paid bonuses for getting people into work.

 

While we're on the subject, they're not paid to deny benefits, be rude on the phone, lose your med cert, or anything else for that matter. Sometimes these things just happen.

 

I tell you something, though. When I worked there, I had this idea that I should get a compensation payment every time I was addressed as "You people". You know, like "You people get bonuses for forcing us back to work!"

 

One serious point - Pathways to Work provider organisations are paid on the basis of the number of people they find jobs for. I don't know if the individual staff get bonuses, but it doesn't really matter because as long as you show up and participate in the interviews, they can't do anything at all to interfere with your payments.

Found this on another site

Message 69. Posted by ?????????929099) on Friday, 4th September 2009 permalink

Did anyone else watch the Dole busters programme last night, and see how the Atos 'Doctor?" assess the poor chap with back problems? Even worse---the Pathway to work people, getting people back into work, for which of course, they get a bonus??I

wonder how many of them have suffered from severe spinal problems?

[antone]

Found this on another site

Message 69. Posted by ?????????929099) on Friday, 4th September 2009 permalink

Did anyone else watch the Dole busters programme last night, and see how the Atos 'Doctor?" assess the poor chap with back problems? Even worse---the Pathway to work people, getting people back into work, for which of course, they get a bonus??I

wonder how many of them have suffered from severe spinal problems?

 

Pathways to Work provider staff and ATOS staff are not Jobcentre staff.

[antone]

just seams to be a coincidece that job centre has lost my medical certificates, specialist letters, drs letters, gave me appointments before the letters have arrived wouldnt give me tribuneral services number and failed on 7 times to respond to written letters asking about missing info and lost my tribunal notes before i received them. and a mate i met through 1 of these sites has had the same problems

 

It seems to be a coincidence because it is a coincidence. It's a sign of systemic mismanagement, not malice.

 

I repeat, Jobcentre staff are not paid bonuses to deny benefits.

[sparky27]

It seems to be a coincidence because it is a coincidence. It's a sign of systemic mismanagement, not malice.

 

I repeat, Jobcentre staff are not paid bonuses to deny benefits.

 

 

Its a sign of someone not doing their job right and there are that many biased people around who think everyone on the sick are lazy bone idol work shy scroungers that makes you sick. ive worked all my life until last year where i have severly damadged my back, i dont like the idea of claiming benefits but i have no choice, its either do it or me and my daughter end up on the streets.like ive said in previous posts i refuse to claim housing benefit and council tax benefit and would rather go half blind and let my teeth fall out before i have to go to the dentist but i feel ashamed of not being able to work i even struggle to take care of my daughter. every time i phone up the job centre i get talked to like im dirt on someones foot and have been hung up on many times. there is only a very minor amount of times i have phoned up and been very happy with the service, for this i ask names and write back thanking them for their services because i beleive in treating people equally where others dont. all aplicants for job centre jobs should be checked for attitude to people and those who have a bad attitude towards people claiming benefits should either be forced to retrain or be sacked. i know there are people out there claiming when theres nothing wrong with them, give these people the greef not us who want to work but cant. and if its pure coincidence that all my papers are lost you better explain to all the other hundreds of people that have had this same problem.

[honeybee13]

Antone, can you tell us more about a typical benefits office please?

 

The DWP must be a massive organisation, but it doesn seem very efficient. The NHS have everyone in the country and seems to manage not to lose papers left, right and centre.

 

Are you saying the staff are being badly managed? And are they well paid and well-treated, for example? You might be saying that the way the place is organised by the higher ups is not good, or maybe it's the IT system ?

 

Sparky, please don't blame Antone. He doesn't work for the DWP - had the great good sense to leave, and he helps a lot of people on the forum.

 

Antone, I'm genuinely interested in what you know, because I for one would like to know more.

 

HB x

[sparky27]

Antone, can you tell us more about a typical benefits office please?

 

The DWP must be a massive organisation, but it doesn seem very efficient. The NHS have everyone in the country and seems to manage not to lose papers left, right and centre.

 

Are you saying the staff are being badly managed? And are they well paid and well-treated, for example? You might be saying that the way the place is organised by the higher ups is not good, or maybe it's the IT system ?

 

Sparky, please don't blame Antone. He doesn't work for the DWP - had the great good sense to leave, and he helps a lot of people on the forum.

 

 

Antone, I'm genuinely interested in what you know, because I for one would like to know more.

 

HB x

 

Hi, yes sorry about earlier on (sorry antone) but all night i have been on different forums and am feed up of being told that loosing paper work is a coincidence. when you read through all the forums and find out how many people have had paperwork and private information lost it makes you sick. there are many many people out thre with the same problem as me and when the keep losing your documents do u think thats a coincidence or maybe just some very bad luck. i have even sent a specialist report by recorded delivery and that failed to get there. i dont know how many offices they have altogether but the one i send my information to must have some sort of problem with me bearing in mind that i havent done anything wrong in the first place. and what about the apointments made before the letters arrive? ive had three, yes maybe 1 and quite possibly 2 but 3. with the amount of people their files hold then surely they have the means to keep them safe. i refuse to send original documents anymore as i dont know what to expect, its just caused me so much greef and have got really down at times. one again sorry antone but the last year has been nothing but a constant struggle for me and it has turned me into a bit of an ar**hole.

[honeybee13]

Understandable, Sparky. Are you going to be mates with Antone now?

 

HB x

[sparky27]

Understandable, Sparky. Are you going to be mates with Antone now?

 

HB x

yes, like i said i apollogise for my attitude as i havent really been able to control it much recently. just the name jobcentre or dwp sets me off

[honeybee13]

It's nice of you to apologise, that's not easy in life.

 

I know what you mean about the name setting you off. My problems with the DWP have been resolved, but I still have a sinking feeling whenever I get a letter from them, or some of the other people I had dealings with when I was really bad.

 

HB x

[mazbck]

I know how you two are feeling, its like banging your head against a brick wall when talking to the DWP at times.

 

Im still on the phone to them everyday and my son's tribunal was 4 weeks ago.