Woolwich mortgage charges . ***WON***

[slick132]

Hi HP,

 

As this is a mortgage account, you may need to use a restitutionary interest rate lower than you would with a credit card claim.

 

What's the rate applicable to your mortgage ?

 

[HP Mum]

An update:

 

 

With regards to W's £40 monthly charges & added monthly interest there is over £1k penalties that W charged me.

I spoke & wrote complaint letters to W.

 

 

They acknowledged my complaints but refused to accept that the penalty charges were unlawful and refused to reimburse the £s.

As a gesture of goodwill they sent a cheque for a tiny nominal amount (less than 5%!!).

I have not cashed the cheque they sent yet as I read somewhere that if I bank it, they could interpret this as full & final acceptance of their offer.

I wrote complaining that their gesture was ridiculous and my complaint still stands.

They wrote back saying they considered the case closed and I should now direct my complaint to the ombudsman.

 

 

In the meantime, I refinanced and have redeemed the whole mortgage, which included these extra costs - which the lawyer did not argue about on my behalf.

I now have a new mortgage with a different bank.

W can obviously no longer threaten repossession as they have the mortgage repaid !! But I still believe W owe me more than £1k in unlawful penalty charges.

 

 

Can I still pursue W for reimbursement of the penalty charges?

Can I threaten W with legal action?

I would love to do this.

Especially as my position is stronger now I have no debt with them; in reverse I believe W has a debt to me.....

[slick132]

Hi Mum,

 

Yes you can seek a refund of the full amount of every penalty charge and restitutionary interest on top (as this is Barclays).

 

Have you prepared a compound interest spreadsheet using 24.9% yet. Let us know the totals.

 

See this thread too - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?440434-Orge-Vs-Barclays-Woolwich-Arrears-Charges

 

[HP Mum]

Thank you.

 

 

Claiming interest and spreadsheets bewilder me !!

What does that mean?

 

 

I will check out the other thread too. Wont have a moment free until the w/e though.

[HP Mum]

very tired so need to sleep now - but did have a quick look at the other thread.

That person went back years in claiming charges & interest. I was only intending to reclaim a couple years - yet now am beginning to think I should work out ALL the penalty charges over the whole 15y period. Can I ? Especially as at the beginning W penalty charges were shockingly £75 !!

Would be good to know.

Then I can go through all my files at the w/e...

[SabreSheep]

If you have the statements then you can try.

 

You will need to argue that the statute of limitations 32 c (i think) means the clock does not start ticking until you discover the mistake (in law or fact)

[HP Mum]

I am quite organised and have a file of every payment and statement from the start. The statements show every penalty charge incurred.

 

 

I will try to work on this over the w/e.

Do I understand correctly:

I need first to list all the charges ; then list all the interest added ; then somehow work out what the compounded interest would be ; and then Total the lot ???

 

Where do I find the tools (spreadsheet) to work out the compounded interest over the last 15y ??

Then I need to write to Barc / W and "demand" a refund of all charges ?

Does it matter that W say they have closed my complaint ?

 

 

I am not very mathematical so hope I can do this !!!

[slick132]

Hi Mum,

 

No, use the right compound interest spreadsheet and it'll calculate the int't for you. See here - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=34010&d=1330899255

 

I suggest you claim Restitutionary Interest at 24.9% but others have claimed at 29.9% and won. It is a nominal interest rate that you claim from the bank to ensure that they have not profited by lending out your money and making profits from it.

 

Read up on the relevant subjects. Lots of *WON* cases here that will guide you well in many aspects - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?97-Barclays-BCard-and-Woolwich-successes

 

They are cases about reclaiming on BC a/c's but the principles involved are the same. You are reclaiming unlawful penalties applies to your a/c but, in your case, it's a mgge a/c.

 

[HP Mum]

HI

I have gone back over 15y and its a whopping total of charges.... Made up of lots of £75 or more recently £40 'Admin Charges' and added Interest.

 

 

I don't seem to be able to open the Compound Interest Spreadsheet link above. Not sure what a .php ending is? What should I download to be able to see the link? And then be able to work out the total????

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

click the link again

then select save as

rename it cisheet.xls

its a security feature of IE that's changing the name and .php extension.

 

 

dx

[dx100uk]

enter EACH FEE

on a new row

ebter their int rate [apr] in cell d15

 

 

dx

[HP Mum]

Thanks

Have succeeded in saving as .xls

Am just starting to input data.

In each month I received a) Arrears Admin Charge and b) Arrears Interest Charge.

The Interest charge changes each month, dependent on the arrears and the interest at the time.

Do I put in both charges a) and b) each month on separate lines?

 

 

What do you mean put in their APR in D15 ?

This is a mortgage and had 2 types of interest as the borrowing was split between svr and tracker (was a btl).

Do I put in the 24.99% that was recommended above?

[dx100uk]

yes go with slick from his post

[HP Mum]

Gosh.

I had initially just left it at 0% and have got as far as start 2009. With 0% the charges are already 3.5k - with 24.99% the charges are almost 20k. Is this really correct? I have so many more figures to input and it is going to end up a huge sum that W will owe. Really ??

[slick132]

Hi Mum,

 

The older the charge, the greater the effect of compound interest.

 

Let us know the totals separately for charges and for compound int't when the spready is complete.

 

Then we can consider how best to deal with this.

 

[HP Mum]

I have finished inputting all data

 

 

I do have a query though. I did complain in 2009 and did get some of the figures reimbursed a few months later. So how would I alter the data to show this?

for the moment I have put everything in - every Admin charge and every arrears interest charge since 2003. But will have to make allowances for the reimbursed charges in 09.

 

 

I have input 24.99% and it adds up to a huge amount - almost 30k - because of the length of time that all these £75 admin charges accrued interest....

[HP Mum]

Pretty much £27,500.00 including 24.99% compound interest. (Need to make some deductions as per above post #61)

And pretty much £6,100 with 0% interest

[HP Mum]

And at 29.99% compound interest the total is pretty much £37,100.00

[HP Mum]

I did have a large mortgage. It is really unbelievable how compound interest works. Normally against me

[HP Mum]

I have other questions.

 

 

Given the calculations that I have done above:

a) does this alter the way I approach Barc/W through the courts, as although the charges are below 10k, the compound interest takes the total way above the 10k limit for small claims???

Or do I initially just write to Barc/W saying what I consider they owe me????

 

 

b) W sent me £50 as a gesture of goodwill !! Should I just sit on it or send it back ??

 

 

c) What should I do about this ???

I had no idea that the potential sum owing could be this big in compound interest?

What CI % should I use ??

Charges - £6000 (tbc - less some adjustments)

CI @ 29.9 - £30,500 (tbc less adjustments)

Total - £36,500 tbc

 

 

Really not sure what to do next......

[slick132]

Hi Mum,

 

I would return the £50 cheque to W saying this is not acceptable and you will write further shortly.

 

Due to the large amounts involved, I'm going to seek advice from the Site Team on this.

 

In post #46, I asked what the mgge rate was. I realise it may have varied but please confirm the lowest and highest rates that applied over the relevant years.

 

Also, what is the earlies penalty charge on your spreadsheet.

 

A court claim is allocated to track according to the claim amount. In your case, the claim amount includes restitutionary interest so this would put your claim on the Multi Track :-

 

Small Claims track deals with up to £10K

 

Fast Tracks deals with claims from £10K to £25K

 

Multi Track deals with cases over £25K

 

On SCT, your risks of costs against you (if you lost in court) should be limited. But on the higher tracks, the cost consequences can rise significantly. Hence why I want advice for you.

 

[slick132]

Hi Mum,

 

While we wait for input, can you post up a copy of the spready showing 24.9% CI. We can then check you've got things right on that.

 

Hide personal data.

 

Re the chgs they refunded in 2009, these can just be deducted from the spreadsheet total as a manual adjustment.

 

[HP Mum]

hi

 

 

The rate was interest only, btl. It was split into different rates due to taking out further advance during the term under different conditions.

The lowest rate was 5.49%

The highest rate was 8.39%

 

 

Does this make a difference to the % added into the spreadsheet?

ie: it wasn't a credit card, like b'card, where the rates were as high as 29%.

If I change the % to, say 8.5%, the compound interest, of course, reduces a huge amount - to apx £6k; with the sum total only just over £10k.

Which would make it fit into the Small Claims track

What would be the general advice on best % to put in the CI Sheet

[HP Mum]

I have tried to upload the spreadsheet but am not sure it is working.

[HP Mum]

I uploaded it as xls. I think whoever reads it has to do what I had to do and 'save as' a .xls extension to read.

 

 

I haven't taken out any of the refunds yet.