Lloyds TSB v Laura Cooke **Debt written off**

[Laura Cooke]

[Laura Cooke]

[Laura Cooke]

Advice please fed up of responding to these they just keep sending same standard letter they have not sent several reminders and only default husband as received was on 7th December 2009

[Laura Cooke]

Comments please as the reply states "I write in response to your consumer credit agreement under section 78 of the consumer credit act 1974 (CCA) however my letter to them requested my credit card agreement under section 31.16 as advised by a site team member my letter specifically stated THIS IS NOT MADE PERSUANT TO SECTION 78 CONSUMER CREDIT ACT 1974

 

They have sent me what they say is my husbands terms and conditions and agreement but could relate to anyone as they have no CCA to relate these to anything other than my husbands name as been added to them they state that they cannot locate the signed agreement but are trying to locate it!!!

Edited January 14, 2010 by Rooster-UK
Image deleted.

[car2403]

Hi,

 

Is your user name your real name? If so, I'd advise you to have it changed - if you can PM me with an alternative, if you would like it changed, I can have that done for you.

 

You've posted your reply to your CCA request, but as pointed out by Gaz, this probably isn't enforceable in it's current format. To be enforceable, an agreement will require a credit limit, the interest rate and the repayment details. Does that page contain those terms, as it seems they are in the terms overleaf. If that page is part of the same document, the agreement may be enforceable. If it isn't (different documents) it's most probably unenforceable in Court.

 

As for the Default, you were advised to send the account in dispute letter - did you get this sent off, as requested?

 

Have you had anything else from anyone about this account since that letter?

 

Are you still making payments, as the balance is reducing?

[Laura Cooke]

I was wondering what I should do if anything? now Lloyds Tsb have responded to my 31.16 request by treating it as a 78 of the consumer credit act 1974 request which I stressed to them in my letter was not a request under section 78

 

They state the signed agreement can`t be located and that they will endeavour to search for it the response letter from them as been downloaded on to the site

 

With the ruling by Judge Waksman Manchester 31st December wouldn`t it be best to leave Lloyds Tsb to take matters further? as If I do I have to prove (being the claimant) that they haven`t got the signed agreement that`s if I understand what this ruling is saying, as far as I am concerned the proof is there in that the creditor as not disclosed it but it seems it`s not that simple?

[Laura Cooke]

Gaz

 

That`s great well done and appreciate your constant posts (only one`s I seem to get lol)

 

I suppose I`ll have to sit back and do nothing? as now after this Judge Waksman`s ruling whoever takes the case to court the onus is on them to prove their isn`t a cca if I take it or that their is if the creditor takes it, only thing that bothers me is do I have to send account in dispute letter or anything incase it ever did go to court to show that I followed procedures as no one replies to anything I`ve posted no idea if I do anything or not.

 

MBNA sent 2 unenforceable cca from what I gather infact the one you had same as my husband`s is a fraud!! it is a cut and paste job someone asked you if the left side had address different to right hand side and my husband`s does so not part of same document just made to look like terms and conditions on front they`ll try anything won`t they

 

Lloyds Tsb said they cannot locate my husbands agreement but they`ll endeavour to locate it so do I carry on paying them through CCCS? all really puzzling without sound advice sent off for sars from them and MBNA who are stalling wanting a signature and proof of identity wrote back told them to send it and stop messing about yet everything you do someone makes a point that this doesn`t help much the sars so why send for it some advise one thing some another

 

Anyway pleased for you I`m just at the start of this 6 creditors to deal with

[42man]

I think you'll just have to wait to see if Lloyds comply with the CPR31.16. You can't really follow this up as although they haven't actually said they 'no longer have it'. As far as the MBNA one goes then have a look at these threads - http://consumeractiongroup.co.uk/resources/templates-library/86-debt-collectors/609-mbna-agreementsapplication-forms

 

And this - http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/120057-cabot-test-case-2.html#post2384353

 

And this too - Judge quashes woman's £8,000 credit card debt in 'landmark ruling' on mis-selling of payment protection insurance | Mail Online

[Laura Cooke]

Gazz a poster as recommended I send Capital One & Lloyds Tsb a cca 78 request as I sent them 31.16 requests which he says should not be used by someone who doesn`t know what they are doing, he then suggests starting a new thread for each when and if I get a response?

 

Not sure how to start a new thread on each I just keep posting a fresh titel if need be under post reply as I really don`t get this thread lark a lot more don`t seem to understand it either lol

 

As I have read no end of posts/threads it does look like the chances of seeing a credit agrement have been obtained by the 31.16 route and as I understand it you are only likely to get it that way? even the sars doesn`t mean you`ll get sight of one so until you know if it`s unenforceable I will have to carry on paying them on behalf of my husband through his CCCS debt management plan? in my opinion though if the ccc/banks have an enforceable agreement why not send it you to show you where you stand to not send it indicates to me it`s not enforceable as I see no other reason to withold it other than they haven`t got it!!!

[Gazza112]

Hi Laura

 

I was in the same boat as you when i first found this forum.

Yes, it's best to start new thread for each account you have as it tends to get a bit confussing if there all bundled into one thread.

 

For example Laura -V- Capital one / or Laura -V- MBNA

 

That's what i had to do with my 2 MBNA threads, split them into two.

The poster is right, you shouldn't send the 31.16 to reveal documents unless your willing to take them to Court if they don't come up with anythink.

But that's not to say you can't send those letter's off, as it will be upto you weather you take any legal action or not at the end of the day.

So take a tip from me, don't get stressed out over this take each step as it comes.

I was put intouch with the CCCS at the beginning i found them very unhelpful, and more on the side of the creditor.

Hope this helps

 

 

Gaz

[MARTIN3030]

Your Lloyds stuff moved here

[MandM]

Hi Laura,

 

Can you recap as to where you're at with this thread/issue. Did you send the S78 requests off in the end?

 

M

[Laura Cooke]

On 14th December received a default notice dated the 7th December stating arrears must be paid by 29th December 2009

 

Wrote under 31.16 requesting my signed agreement on 15-12-09 reply came 29-12-09 treating it as a section 78 along with current terms and conditions and what they say is a executed agreement and stating "We are endeavouring to locate your signed agreement" and won`t enter into any more discussions on this matter

 

Also on the 29th received letter from SCM same as all other standard letters had off them

 

Made a sars request 2-1-10 had reply dated 14-1-10 which came today (18th) it was posted 1st class Royal Mail!!! it had a 4 page questionaire enclosed to ask what you want from them and to name bank staff who you dealt with!!!! or can request items to be collected at your bank and must produce driving licence or passport at the bank (Wondered if they want to photcopy these for a signature?)

 

All copies of letters below advice please, I haven`t chased the request up for my hubbies signed credit card agreement as I have been told off the site that there is no such letter I can send to a non compliance of a 31.16 request?

Edited April 18, 2010 by Laura Cooke

[Laura Cooke]

Is this default notice ok? Edited January 18, 2010 by Laura Cooke

[Laura Cooke]

[Laura Cooke]

[Laura Cooke]

[MandM]

Hi LC,

 

The DN seems fine as far as the dates are concerned.

 

Your next move depends on what you're hoping to achieve from this. Not seen your CCA as the link is gone, but it seems from comments above from Gazza and Car that it did not appear enforceable.

 

If they take you to court they will have to produce the signed agreement to the court. So, depends if you want to risk it - your choice! BUT if they do have it then why have they not produced it? How old is this card out of interest?

 

31.16 is for disclosure before proceedings start and, strictly speaking, shouldn't be used to call the banks bluff on disclosure of documents as a fishing exercise. That said, you can always use 31.14 or CPR18 should they take you to court. Whoever advised you to use 31.16 did so, i'm sure, in good faith. But the banks (and courts) are growing wise to it - call it a lesson learned - done loads of things wrong myself, we're all learning .

 

With regards the SAR you can fill their form in if you wish or i'll send you a fully detailed SAR that you can adapt and say "this is what I want". But make sure you remind them that the 40 days is ticking from the date of your original application - no ifs no buts. That's their problem!

 

Sign it and cross your signature through or put Xs through it. Tell them that you have done so because you are aware of the problem of identity theft in our postal system. As for proving your address, you are asking them to send this personal and sensitive information to the same place that they have sent all previous personal and sensitive information including all letters, statements, DN, arrears letters etc. So again, that's their problem!

 

Will keep looking in, any questions then just shout.

 

M

[Laura Cooke]

Thanks M & M I can post the terms & conditions and agreement they sent (let me know) but they look like up to date ones? account opened 2001

 

Sars due back 10-2-10

 

Agreement they sent back states (3) "APR is shown in your original agreement"

(4) "Total charge for credit is shown on your original agreement"

 

If you show me a fully detailed subject access request suppose they`ll just reject it and want their own form filling in which is ludicrous how do we know names of bank staff from all these years and that should not be up to us

 

I wrote to all creditors when my hubbie had his brain injury stating that we on benefits and that he`ll never work again and on advice of the debt advice place (sorry forgot name) they said write and ask creditors to consider writing the debts off around £32,000 in total to 6 creditors all refused, I have found it hard looking after my hubbie without what these creditors have put me through (not now calls seem to have stopped I made complaints) we only stopped full payments to creditors in May 2009 and the calls were on the hour every hour even Saturday mornings 8am from India and Bank Holiday Monday (Didn`t even know they worked then) it upset me but also infuriated me so I came on here after receiving good advice on here for my also disabled son back in 2006

 

I have replied to all letters promptly (Then had letters accusing me of ignoring them utterly untrue) I have been honest about the income and expenses CCCS pay the 6 creditors monthly and still are doing though not one of the 6 creditors as complied with the cca request or the sars so far

 

They keep pressuring for money we haven`t got they can see the situation we don`t own our own home we have nothing so they can`t do anything to us

 

The bankers/credit card companies have behaved irresponsibly so who are they to cast scorn on us? my husband had a excellent credit rating till this tradgedy he as never not paid his way but things have changed for good for us I may be out of order but I want to end up if possible not having to pay these debts I know they won`t get wiped off but they may be unenforceable?

 

Thanks for your help much appreciated

[MandM]

mmmmm. So if they don't show the original agreement how can you possibly agree that these points are correct!

Agreement they sent back states (3) "APR is shown in your original agreement"

(4) "Total charge for credit is shown on your original agreement"

Strikes me as strange behavior for a trusty bank, don't you think.

 

You've certainly had a bit of a rough time of it. But you seem pretty strong too and your resolve will be your biggest weapon against the DCA muppets.

 

We are a year in now, £65k to deal with and 9 or 10 accounts. but only one has pushed it to court. Not actually set foot in a court yet though.

 

As you say, it doesn't get wiped, and if they take you to court they get £5 a month or whatever forever more .

 

So where possible, sit back and let them go for you - then use CPR to see what they've got. It's definately not that scary.

 

As for the calls - do you still get them? They soon ease off - we used to get dozens lol. Not now, just the odd one.

 

M

[MandM]

Will send you SAR on PM. Cut and paste it to read it properly as it looks a bit weird in the PM window. Something to consider.

 

M

[Laura Cooke]

Thanks

[Laura Cooke]

Not had any calls in ages but would be prepared if they started again MBNA have been the worse one man said "Surely your husband isn`t that brain damaged that he can`t speak to me on the phone" I was furious

 

MBNA are terrible my hubbie as 2 accounts with them yet they only ever seem to write about the one account from 2003 not the 2005 one? I don`t know if I should still be paying the 6 creditors through CCCS each month as not one of the 6 have complied to either the cca request or the sars so are in dispute but the advice I keep getting is conflicting

 

According to this Waksman`s judgement he stated that creditors can still enforce is accounts in dispute? really begrudge any of these muppets a penny

[MandM]

I also found MBNA to be the worst!!! They were relentless - was glad when they sold it.

 

We didn't use CCCS or similar, just did our own.

[Laura Cooke]

M & M do you still make payments to any of the creditors? most tell you to stop payments if creditor is in dispute (not sent cca) don`t know what to do going to ring CCCS and ask them to send me details of creditors bank accounts will still want to pay Capital One not sent a sars to them yet even though did send a cca to them it was due back 12-1-10 they wrote stating they wanted signature which isn`t mandatory for a cca request wrote back to them so really hubbie is in dispute with them