Major engine problem with Citroen C8

[turriff1]

Just an update on our C8 timing belt failure. Citroen are not willing to carry out any repair as we do not have a full and complete service history complete with all oil grades used, filter and other parts used serial nos. This I feel is a get out clause as it is a known fault to them and the servicing done has no effect on a belt breaking at half its expected life !! I am continuing to fight but if I can get together with anyone else still having problems then we can shout louder together. I have contacted BBC TVs watchdog but have not had a reply yet, I am also seeking legal advice on where I stand but any advice and help would be welcome.

[jpr1956]

Hi there, just been reading something very similar which you may be interested in following up....

 

2003 C8 - Timing Belt - Car Going To The Grave - Citroen owners club

 

We have just bought an 04 C8 2.2 hdi with 54,000 miles and are seriously considering getting the cam belt changed now after reading all this. We are also going to see if we can get the water deflector plate fitted that seems to divert water away from the cam belt area and which is now fitted as standard on 2006 onwards models (see the above thread).

 

Good luck!!!

[turriff1]

Hi

Thanks for that info. We have got trading standards on the case as citroen not giving in. They seem to think we have a good case.

[Conniff]

The recommended change period by citroen is 100,000 miles or 10 years on the 2.2d hdi 2002-2006.

 

There is no recommendation to change the water pump, tensioner and pulley, replacement is by inspection.

 

Well, that says it all really.

[Rattyrodent]

Count me in on any group action against Citoren. Our '04 2.2HDi, cambelt blew in France in summer 08, thank goodness for travel cover! Mileage was 50,000, Citroen not interested at all, local garage ended up rebuilding the engine at a cost of £4,000, £1,000 of which was for new injectors. The garage now won't touch Citroens! We've had lots of problems with the car, electrical and otherwise, new ECU, DPF, catalytic converter, turbo. I'd sell it if it was worth anything.

[icyblast]

It is possible to remove the injectors and repair the C8/807 engines cost effectively. I have now repaired about 30 of them using a hydraulic puller which we have upgraded to cope with the severity of the corrosion in these engines. I am now able to save not only the engines but about 98% of the injectors as well. For more information have a look for engine repair on eBay

[chunder]

hi all just gone through this nightmare with one of our customers belt broke at 76000 miles and 6 years:mad:

car has full history with all proper spec oils, replaced particle filter at 60000 as recommended by citroen, oh and water pump free as a bird, clean break right across belt.....RAC guy told customer that the cam sensor was faulty LOL.

was told by citroen that if that had happened then dont even bother trying to remove injectors coz they wont budge but to fit new/second hand engine, eventually customer bought 2nd hand one and when it arrives its for a c5 2.2hdi, only a few horses different and refitted all original external parts from old engine to new one....sorted!.........apparantly not now got an issue with it not starting until it cranked for ages:-x:-x

tested fuel pressure all ok, checked spill off from injectors wow serious issue there 65ml on three on 3min run.....had them all reconditioned,refitted them starts better but still cranks alot before starting ,now running out of ideas the only difference is the injectors on replacement engine they are marked 3 where as the original ones are marked 2 do they need to be coded to this bloody car:-x:-x:-x

[camfag]

The premature cambelt failure syndrome with Citroen C8 / Peugeot 807 / Lancia Phaedre / Fiat Ulysse HDi's continues. But there is hope.

 

Please contact camfag at phes.tenterden@gmail.com if you wish to pursue the matter along with hundreds of others.

[Jeepfan Welshman]

Hi,

Sorry to hear of your woes with the Citroen 2.2 HDI injectors.

 

In Cheshire, a place called Hutson Precision Components sell a puller for various diesel engine injectors from BMW to VW and many in between [try a search on ebay for 'HDI injector tool' for more info]. It is not cheap at £317.40, but if you can save the cost of new injectors, I suppose it is the cheaper option, or I believe that the tool can be hired for around £100 for 10 days, which is not too bad [all plus carriage of course!]

 

Their contact details are on their website www.hutsonprecision.co.uk and the quality looks very good, which is eccential for this type of job if the injector is to remain undamaged.

 

Good luck to you all!

[Jeepfan Welshman]

Forgot to say that I have no connection to Hutson Precision, but my brother has suffered the dreaded cambelt failure on his C8, so I know how you all feel right now. I find it increadible that a major manufacturer like PSA can get away with such a major design flaw, that allows water to get onto the timing belt in the first place. I feel sure that a deflecter plate could be designed to overcome the problem, which seems to be unique to the C8 and its derivatives?

 

Please enlighten me if I am wrong.

[chunder]

hi all guess what we have done this week......3x 2.2hdi cambelts on one 807 and two c8's :eek: all of the customers saw the problems we were having with the original c8 and that sort of persuaded them to have the belt changed.....cambelt kits,water pumps and multi vee belts all changed on all three vehicles with very happy and relieved customers thanking us :D:D.

just thought id share that with you all.

oh and i did use the proper pullers for injectors, bloody big slide hammer with an internal thread system(you have to disect the injector a bit first) with a bit of rope round the slide bit and .......it still took me an hour to remove four injectors:mad::mad:

 

WOULD I BUY A MODERN DIESEL......WOULD I @*&?%

 

COME ON CAR MAKERS LETS SORT THIS PROBLEM OUT NOW, IT WILL COST YOU IN THE LONG RUN!!!!!

[camfag]

If you have had a premature cambelt failure problem in your Citroen C8, Peugeot 807, Fiat Ulysse or Lancia Phedra diesel 2.0 or 2.2 HDi, manufactured between 2002 and October 2006, please e-mail to: phes.tenterden@gmail.com . You are not alone.

Also follow this link:

L'argus - Enquête exclusive L'argus : Courroie de disribution fragile, PSA réagit enfin ! - CITROEN C8, FIAT Ulysse, LANCIA Phedra, PEUGEOT 807 - argusauto.com

[camfag]

Day of Action. TODAY!

 

We have been contacted by two people to say that on Saturday their cambelt failed.

I can tell you their names. I have their e-mail addresses.

Please use your phone, your e-mail, TODAY! to contact:

 

1) Your Citroen / Peugeot / Fiat / Lancia / Dealer.

2) L’Argos Magazine

3) The car makers themselves

4) VOSA

5) Anyone you know that will help to make this happen TODAY !

 

Request that they please contact the Car Manufacturer to ask them to please stop all C8 / 807 / Ulysse / Phedra 2.2 or 2.0 HDi vehicles made between 2002 and October 2006 immediately. because of the likelihood of premature cambelt failure.

Please do this today.

 

Many thanks,

Phil phes.tenterden@gmail.com

 

Journée d'action. AUJOURD'HUI!

 

Nous avons été contacté par deux personnes pour dire que le samedi de leur cambelt échoué.

Je peux vous dire leur nom. J'ai leurs adresses e-mail.

S'il vous plaît utilisez votre téléphone, votre adresse e-mail, aujourd'hui! à contacter:

 

1) Votre Citroën / Peugeot / Fiat / Lancia / détaillant.

2) L'Magazine Argos annonces auto vendre voiture occasion acheter credit assurance cote argus - argusauto.com

3) Les constructeurs automobiles eux-mêmes

4) VOSA (bureau du gouvernement pour la sécurité des véhicules)

5) Toute personne vous savez qui vous aideront à y arriver AUJOURD'HUI!

 

Demandez-leur s'il vous plaît contacter le fabricant de voitures pour leur demander de s'il vous plaît arrêter tous les C8 / 807 / Ulysse / Phedra 2.2 ou 2.0 HDi véhicules entre 2002 et Octobre 2006 tout de suite. raison de la probabilité de défaillance cambelt prématurée.

S'il vous plaît le faire aujourd'hui.

 

Merci beaucoup,

phes.tenterden Phil @ gmail.com

[camfag]

Day of Action. TODAY!

 

We have been contacted by two people to say that on Saturday their cambelt failed.

I can tell you their names. I have their e-mail addresses.

Please use your phone, your e-mail, TODAY! to contact:

 

1) Your Citroen / Peugeot / Fiat / Lancia / Dealer.

2) L’Argos Magazine

3) The car makers themselves

4) VOSA

5) Anyone you know that will help to make this happen TODAY !

 

Request that they please contact the Car Manufacturer to ask them to please stop all C8 / 807 / Ulysse / Phedra 2.2 or 2.0 HDi vehicles made between 2002 and October 2006 immediately. because of the likelihood of premature cambelt failure.

Please do this today.

 

Many thanks,

Phil phes.tenterden@gmail.com

 

Journée d'action. AUJOURD'HUI!

 

Nous avons été contacté par deux personnes pour dire que le samedi de leur cambelt échoué.

Je peux vous dire leur nom. J'ai leurs adresses e-mail.

S'il vous plaît utilisez votre téléphone, votre adresse e-mail, aujourd'hui! à contacter:

 

1) Votre Citroën / Peugeot / Fiat / Lancia / détaillant.

2) L'Magazine Argos annonces auto vendre voiture occasion acheter credit assurance cote argus - argusauto.com

3) Les constructeurs automobiles eux-mêmes

4) VOSA (bureau du gouvernement pour la sécurité des véhicules)

5) Toute personne vous savez qui vous aideront à y arriver AUJOURD'HUI!

 

Demandez-leur s'il vous plaît contacter le fabricant de voitures pour leur demander de s'il vous plaît arrêter tous les C8 / 807 / Ulysse / Phedra 2.2 ou 2.0 HDi véhicules entre 2002 et Octobre 2006 tout de suite. raison de la probabilité de défaillance cambelt prématurée.

S'il vous plaît le faire aujourd'hui.

 

Merci beaucoup,

phes.tenterden Phil @ gmail.com

[Jeepfan Welshman]

I have just had a timing belt snap on my wifes 54 plate C8 with 46500 miles on it!!!! Got my mate who has a garage to fix at a cost of £3K. Drove it for a week and then it lost power, engine management light came on and would not go above 50 MPH. i believe that this is a limp home mode that the engine puts on itself. Now i have a problem that we dont know what is wrong with the car. The diagnostic doesnt show any faults when plugged in.

Any help from anyone?? hope it is something basic as cant afford any more expence.

:DTip for temoving injectors soak them in coca-cola for two days and then use a 10 ton injector puller, we managed to save 1 but at £250 each it was worth saving.

 

From the symptoms you describe, it sounds as if you have a problem with the partical filter on the exhaust. These are available as exchange units through a Citroen dealer, and this is much cheaper than fitting new. You can apparently get the ECU reprogrammed to allow the removal of the part altogether. Details here: DPF Problems - DPF Removal - Diesel Particle Filter Switch Off

[AP Autodiagnostics]

You are not alone with this seized injector problem it applies to the following vehicles in one form or another .......

 

Citroen, peugeot, fiat, Renault, mercedes, Lancia, Alfa, Vauxhaul, Suzuki, Iveco, Nissan and Honda

 

all with common rail diesel engines

 

I also have the hydraulic puller and operate a mobile service travelling to people and pulling these injectors every week, along side my normal diagnostic work.

 

injector removal can go either way they either come out or the don't and i have found that oils and sprays make little difference as once out any seriously seized injectors that have been soaked always look bone dry as though nothing has made it down the sides of the injector, if they come out wet they were effectively loose anyway.

 

most dealers only use a manual puller which only exerts a small force compared to the hydraulic puller so find many are too tight for them to remove. due to the design of the engine, if injectors do not come out you have to do the following....

 

injectors stuck in

destroy injectors or manifold / cam carrier to allow access to cylinder head bolts

remove cylinder head

replace head or have injector remains milled, drilled or spark eroded out

 

then after all this you can rebuild your engine replacing some very expensive parts along the way.

 

so the best advice is EARLY BELT CHANGES to avoid the problem in the first place

 

or if you are unlucky enough to be in the position of having seized injectors find someone like me with a hydraulic puller who will give you the best chance of getting them out.

 

by the way be warned nothing comes cheap with seized injectors!!

Edited August 2, 2010 by MARTIN3030

[chunder]

HI AP, the biggest problem is the fact that you cannot get any puller/lifter under the engine bay coz of the way citroen/peugeot engines lie on there back in the engine bay, the only real way is to remove engine or try and tilt it forward which is nion impossible.

Have been told that the main cause is that the water runs of the scuttle panel directly onto the engine where it collects around the injectors......FORD have this problem with the fiesta range where the washer jets let water onto the engine and this then goes down the side of the plug lead and rusts the spark plug in, oh the joy of getting them out at 30000 mile is fun....is there a recall? NO, been advised to removed washer jets and to put silicone sealant round the base and refit thus keeping water tight. LMAO! SHAME ALL WE HEAR ABOUT ARE THE SO CALLED BIG RECALLS (TOYOTA BRAKES)AND NOTHING ABOUT WHAT MECHANICS ARE COMING ACROSS ON A DAILY BASIS

[AP Autodiagnostics]

Hi Chunder

 

You obviously have not seen the pichler puller in action, it is very compact in size and easily fits under the scuttle allowing injector removal in situ, i have done this many times now. it is easyer if you drop one engine mounting to lower the engine a bit and you must remove the wiper linkage on some cars but that is far better than engine removal.

 

Water has been a major contributing factor on some engines as the injectors have been red rusty but not on others, i do belive it is simply a bad design but as it is now applying right accross the vehicle range ie not simply one manufacturer or engine it would seem to be something that car owners in general will have to get used to until a major design change is brought in.

 

it is simply not possible to recall cars on the off chance the injectors are stuck in. i know this is a major problem for some but not all, i was called out to a car only last week were the owner had read about all the problems people were having and both he and his garage didn't even attempt to remove the injectors they came straight to me, i went out and removed all four with the manual half of the puller quickly and easily the just weren't seized at all. customer was very relived and was left wondering what all the fuss was about.

 

so although it is costing alot of people alot of money some are plain lucky anyway !!!

 

if you check out my website you can see pictures of the puller in action on a fiat ulysee with the laid back engine !!!!

 

AP Autodiagnostics

Edited August 2, 2010 by MARTIN3030
Link removed-see below.

[MARTIN3030]

Commercial links are strictly forbidden,as is being a member of this site with the intention of touting for business.

[camfag]

Have you had premature cambelt failure in a 2.0 or 2.2 HDi Citroen C8, Peugeot 807, Fiat Ulysse or Lancia Phedra?

Please contact camfag at phes.tenterden@gmail.com

[camfag]

If you have had a broken cambelt in a Citroen C8, Peugeot 807 or Fiat Ulysse - 2.0 or 2.2 HDi - please contact Camfag. You are not alone!

 

Si vous avez eu une courroie de distribution cassée dans une Citroen C8, Peugeot 807 ou Fiat Ulysse - 2,0 ou 2,2 HDi - s'il vous plaît contactez Camfag à: phes.tenterden @ gmail.com. Vous n'êtes pas seul!

[C8Owner]

I have had a cambelt go prematurely on my 2003 C8 at 67k miles with a full service history. I was told upon investigation by a Citroen Dealership (who took photos of my water pump and sent it to Citroen UK) that my water pump was to blame. I had the water pump removed by an Independent Garage to find that in fact there was nothing wrong with it as far as that he could tell. Furthermore, having been told "get over it, you need a new engine" by one Citroen Dealership, I did find an Independent that did manage to remove all 4 injectors, to find that in fact the engine was not damaged by the cambelt failure due to the "fail safe rockers" and therefore replaced a small number of the rockers, the cambelt and 2 injectors (as one was faulty and the other damaged when removing it) and my car has now done 4K miles without a single problem.

Edited November 15, 2010 by C8Owner

[scaniaman]

Typical ****roen dealer and more so ****roen uk. Citroën Uk know very little of the really technical side of the product they sell and seem to be trying to steal the Rolls-Royce philosophy of "Our cars don't break down". On the odd occasion that they do "it's nothing to do with us, it's your fault." They take resposibility for nothing. They are largely a marketing organisation with no respect for those who ultimately pay their wages.

[camfag]

If you have had premature cambelt failure with a C8 Citroen, Peugeot 807, Lancia Phedra or Fiat Ulysse 2.0 or 2.2 HDi you are not alone. Contact Camfag at the e-mail address in their previous posting above.