Re: Ruthbridge Ltd

[LittleBear999]

I have got myself in to a situation where I need your help. I was recommended to contact you guys by a friend who said you knew what you were talking about. I have just had a very stern letter from Ruthbridge Ltd asking me to pay them nearly £18000.

 

My story goes as follows:

 

In 2005, I took out a loan. I owed £18000 to MBNA. Subsequently in 2006, I lost my job. I was younger and care-free and stupidly decided to skip my debt responsibilities and went travelling for a few years. I have recently come back to the UK. I have just got married and moved in with my husband.

 

I received a letter a week ago asking the occupier to contact them. As per the advice you have given to others, I ignored it. Now they have sent a letter directly addressed to me. It states that I have seven days to pay them £18,000.

 

The house is my husbands and I simply live there, I don’t know how they know I live there?

 

I’m really scared as I know I should have handled this situation better earlier. Now these people are threatening to come to my husbands house and take his belongings.

 

I just really need your help as to what I should do next. They say I have seven days to reply to them. I work, but I have no assets. Can they come after my husbands assets?

 

I would really appreciate your help – what would you recommend I do next?

[LittleBear999]

I have got myself in to a situation where I need your help. I was recommended to contact you guys by a friend who said you knew what you were talking about. I have just had a very stern letter from Ruthbridge Ltd asking me to pay them nearly £18000.

My story goes as follows:

In 2005, I took out a loan. I owed £18000 to MBNA. Subsequently in 2006, I lost my job. I was younger and care-free and stupidly decided to skip my debt responsibilities and went travelling for a few years. I have recently come back to the UK. I have just got married and moved in with my husband.

I received a letter a week ago asking the occupier to contact them. As per the advice you have given to others, I ignored it. Now they have sent a letter directly addressed to me. It states that I have seven days to pay them £18,000.

The house is my husbands and I simply live there, I don’t know how they know I live there?

I’m really scared as I know I should have handled this situation better earlier. Now these people are threatening to come to my husbands house and take his belongings.

I just really need your help as to what I should do next. They say I have seven days to reply to them. I work, but I have no assets. Can they come after my husbands assets?

I would really appreciate your help – what would you recommend I do next?

[citizenB]

Littlebear, have moved your thread to a more appropriate forum.

[citizenB]

They may have traced you via other credit providers (through the Credit Reference Agencies) or perhaps the Electoral Roll.

 

Are you able to remove any identifying information from the letter and post it on here, or type out the content of the letter.

 

They are unable to just send anyone to remove your husband's belongings without first taking you to court.

 

I think you may need to find out if, in your absence a CCJ has been issued against you.

 

I am not sure how you would do that so have alerted the site team .

[palomino]

As far as your husband is concerned you can rest easy. Your debts are your alone. They cannot take his property to try and satisfy your debts and, if they continue to threaten to do so, you should report them to the OFT.

 

As far as Ruthbridge goes it appears you know what this is about. The first step is to write to Ruthbridge asking for a copy of your credit agreement as provided by the Consumer Credit Act. The fee for doing so is £1.

You must send your letter by recorded delivery to ensure Ruthbridge cannot deny receiving your request, and in any case you will need to know when they received it because they have 12 days in which to provide (plus a day's post at each end).

You should also stress strongly that the fee is for paying the prescribed for for the credit agreement and is not to be used in paying off the debt.

 

Finally - but you've probably guessed this anyway - do not speak to them on the phone. If they ring you then refuse to answer any identity questions. If they persist then just hang up (it is not illegal to do so!).

It is normal for debt collection agencies to bully and threaten you, and this can be very stressful if you are not accustomed to it. Sadly many regulars on here are used to it and know how to respond.

[palomino]

Hang about ... you've started another thread about this.

 

Best to stick to one thread to save confusing people.

[Crocdoc]

Based on the information provided, your husband is not responsible for the debt and so long as you have no interest in the house it is difficult to see what Ruthbridge can actually do apart from their usual rumbling noises.

 

I would seriously doubt if there is a CCJ in existence.

 

However, if you delete you details and attach the letter, I would be able to tell you if it's just another sheet of their usual toilet paper.

[Crocdoc]

I have just been into the Ruthbridge website, I am convinced that this has just been one of their tracing exercises, particularly as they sent their first letter to the occupier. I agree entirely with Palomino send the the CCA request. If nothing else it contains big words that will make their brains hurt for a very long time.

[comebackjimmy]

Hi Little Bear

 

 

First of all, calm down as I promise you nothing bad is going to happen any time soon as my post will hopefully explain.

I am not my self a great expert but have been following what has been happening on this web site for about three years and have greatly benefited so from time to time I try to give some advice back, though I am not legally qualified in any way.

Some better people will be along in a while to give you good advice but I will catch your initial ball as follows:

 

 

First of all, this is a letter from a scabby (because they all are) debt collecting company. It seems pompous, formal, official and serious because that is how they want it to be perceived. Whilst they would like you to pay up the full amount within the seven days they know there is no realistic chance that you will do so. This is a letter designed to get you to respond. If you do so they will take you down a well trodden path to get your money.

From looking at other posts on here they are particularly nasty bullies and you should have no dealings with them.

There is no immediate need for you to respond just because they say you should. If you do not respond the most likely thing to happen at this stage is that they will send a similar but differently worded letter.

So as I said above, do not panic as you have plenty of time to develop your response.

 

IMPORTANT ONE: Do not ever talk to them on the phone. If they call put the phone down straight away without speaking. Do not engage them in any conversation whatsoever at any time. If they keep calling leave the phone off the hook for a while and ignore them. You may think this is rude but it is nothing to how they will treat you if you show them any resistance, so don’t play tennis.

 

IMPORTANT TWO: Do not at this stage write to them. There will be some people along on this post later on who will offer you good tactical advice and only write what they tell you to write. Whatever you do, do not admit you owe the debt in writing (or verbally), enter into a payment plan, fill out any forms they send you or anything else.

In summary, no phone calls. Any communications to be written only.

 

 

Second, the original loan is either a secured or an unsecured loan.

A secured loan is one where you agree that if you don't pay back the money they can sell your house or other property. In your case this is not your husband’s property but another named/identified property that you might have had at the time you took the loan out.

An unsecured loan is where they lend you the money hoping you will pay it back and if you don't they would find it very difficult (though not necessarily impossible) to get it back.

You therefore fall into one of the following scenarios:

a. You secured the loan on a property you still have.

b. You secured the property on a property you no longer have.

c. You have an unsecured loan.

There is no d.

What I mean by that is that you do not (or so it seems from your post) have a loan secured on your husband’s property. They cannot therefore take possession of your husbands property, or any other possessions he may have to settle this debt.

For the avoidance of doubt they cannot repossess your husbands house or his possessions PERIOD. or indeed any property or possessions you have in your own name without going to court first, and winning and you then not maintaining a repayment plan that you agree with the court, and they are a long, long way from that!

 

This is true even if they say it is not or doesn't apply to them.

 

Presuming you have the original loan agreement you should dig it out (and all the other statements, letters etc.) pertaining to the loan and identify which scenario you fall under as others coming on here will want to know so they can advise you.

 

 

 

Third, it would be useful to know who currently owns the debt.

Originally the debt was owned by MBNA and the money would need to be repaid to them. However, it is possible, particularly in view of the amount of time that has passed, that another company now owns the debt, having bought it off MBNA (probably for a figure around £2K!).

Therefore the people chasing you fall into one of the following categories:

a. The debt is still owned by MBNA and Ruthbridge Ltd are chasing it on behalf of MBNA.

b. The debt has been bought by Ruthbridge Ltd who are chasing it on their own behalf.

c. The debt has been bought by someone else and Ruthbridge are chasing it on behalf of the 3rd party.

You should re-read the letter and see if there is any reference to anybody else. You should also photocopy the letter and on the copy, blank out any personal references (name, address, account numbers, bar codes and any unexplainable codes/writing in the footnotes or margins) and get it scanned and place the scan on here so people can see it. (Also, dig out any old correspondence and file it, together with the new stuff that will come. Keep the original copies and make copies if you need them for other purposes. Also, keep the envelopes they come in, stapling the envelope to the original letter that was inside. This is a very minor idea I developed myself. For certain types of letter it could be useful to see how it arrived. For example first class, second class, recorded, etc.)

Depending upon which scenario you fall into above your response may be a bit different. For example, have you received default notices, and if so, were they in the correct format? If the debt has been sold have you received the proper notices of assignment? (The presence or absence of these documents and whether or not they are correct can help in your defence).

Fourth, how old is the debt?

If you live in England or Wales and have not paid, been in contact with the creditor or made any payments for longer than six years the debt becomes Statute Barred. This means that whilst you still owe the money the creditor cannot take any legal action to recover the money. Therefore check the date of the last payment you made. Having said that it looks like you wont be able to defend on this point if your start date really was 2005. Check it.

 

Fifth, does the creditor have supporting documents to chase the debt?

It is entirely possible that MBNA does not have a copy of the original agreement. Incredible but often true. (A lot of agreements and other financial paper is put in a box, on a pallet, in a container and down a salt mine in Cheshire to keep them safe and dry in case they are needed. They will never come out!) If they have not got a copy they cannot enforce the agreement in court. You still owe it to them but they cannot take any legal action.

Even if they have got the original agreement it may not be properly completed. For example it may have one or more terms missing, incorrect or ineligible, figures incorrectly calculated etc. making it unenforceable. In this scenario you still owe them but they cannot take any legal action.

Did you have protection insurance on it. If so it may have been miss-sold to you. If it was miss-sold the entire agreement may be unenforceable.

If a third party has bought the debt then in addition to the above it is even more likely they do not have a copy of the agreement because they have go to go back to the original lender who has got to go down the salt mine, and cannot chase you for the debt until they produce a copy.

The guys coming on here after me will advise you on all that stuff and if necessary, make the Debt collector jump through all those hoops to establish their claim.

So you see, there is no need for immediate worry and you have a good chance of dealing with this successfully.

In fact, as and when you start writing to them you will find that when it comes to them trying to produce original letters they will be less articulate than the cast of Camberwick Green.

Even if in the last resort you end up paying it you will only have to pay it by instalments that are affordable. If you have no money they cannot get blood out of a stone.

Lastly, some domestic and matrimonial stuff.

There are various ways to track down people who move or go off the radar and for about £120 it is possible to find people using things like phone books, electoral register, newspaper articles (was your wedding in the paper?) and so on. Do not freak about this, you are not being bugged, and there is no camera in your bathroom. (If by any chance there is would you post some pictures on here please?).

If you have not already told your husband I would strongly advise you to tell him. The reasons for this are as follows:

 

1. Trying to keep it secret from him wont work because you will get letters, phone calls etc. and have to spend time dealing with it, all of which will require an explanation. If he does not find out by accident he will none the less be suspicious and will try and come up with an explanation for your behaviour. Not good.
   
2. He loves you. He has just married you. Whatever his response is he will soon get over it.
   
3. You need an ally and he is it, apart from the people on here.
   
4. If you try and keep it a secret it will add to your stress levels which will be somewhat challenged already. Don't do it to yourself.
   
5. He loves you (again).
   
6. You are not alone. By some estimates perhaps as many as 25% of people have so much debt that they are almost or totally unable to escape it. Welcome to the 1 in 4 club.
   
7. Finally, and at present this last one probably seems a bit far fetched, but pulling the donkey’s tail (with the DCA being both metaphorically and in most cases literally the donkey) can be fun. Share it with him.
   

With any luck there will be some competent people along to help you soon, so be ready to give them the information they need stay cool and welcome to the game!

Edited November 27, 2009 by comebackjimmy
Clarify a point

[Bazooka Boo]

You can check if you have any CCJ's using this;

CCJs, court orders & fines - Search yourself and others - Trust Online

[LittleBear999]

Firstly, thank you so much for all the helpful responses, especially 'Come backJimmy', it really has helped to ease some of my anxiety.

 

I have looked through my original loan agreement and it is an unsecured loan, I do not have any property or assets in my own name.

 

This is a copy of the letter I received :

 

 

 

RUTHBRIDGE LIMITED

 

　

Our Ref : ****************

Client Name : Direct Legal and Collections

Assigned From : MBNA Bank Ltd

Client Ref : *********

Balance : £18000

　

　

Dear *********

　

We have been instructed by the above named client to retrieve the outstanding balance in full. Failure to respond to this notice within seven days may result in legal action being commenced by our client.

 

Please note that upon being granted a County Court Judgment, costs and interest may be added to the above amount. If this is not paid our client could apply to the court for further action to be taken against you which may include:

 

- Instructing a County Court Bailiff to enter your property and levy goods to the value of the above liability for subsequent sale at auction. Any proceeds from auction would, after the deduction of any cost incurred, discharge some or all of the liability.

 

- Obtaining an attachment to your earnings with your employer. This would mean that a court agreed sum would be deducted from your salary before you receive it.

 

- Obtaining a Charging Order against your property, should you own one. This would mean that this liabilty would be settled upon the sale of your property, prior to you receiving any of the sale proceeds.

 

To avoid these proceedings being issued against you, contact must be made through our legal department on the above telephone number and your payment in full must be received within the next seven days.

 

All payments should be sent to the above address and made payable to Ruthbridge Ltd with our refrence number, clearly stated at all times. Alternatively you can make payments by using our credit/debit card facilities on the above telephone number.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Jason Evans

Legal Department

 

 

 

I have been looking through my old paperwork and it seems i took out the loan in Nov 2005, I think the last payment I made was around May 2006.

 

Before I got married I changed my address on my driving license and my bank account when I had moved in with my then fiancee, could this be how they have traced me to my husbands address? The letter I received was for a Miss not Mrs and with my maiden name.

 

Lastly, my husband is fully aware of the current situation and is being very supportive in helping me try and find a solution to this stressful mess I am in.

 

Is it worth ignoring these people or will this cause me more problems than I am already in??

[Huff&Puff]

The first thing to do is write to them for a CCA. You'll find a template letter here:

 

The Consumer Forums - Debt collectors

 

Don't sign it, print your signature, and send off a £1 postal order. They then have 12 + 2 days to send it to you. If they do send something back, scan it, remove your personal details, and post it here.

[comebackjimmy]

It looks like MBNA may have sold the debt onto Direct Legal and Collections. Here is their website.

 

Direct Legal & Collections

 

They talk about tracing on one of their pages, so they probably found you with this part of their business.

 

The letter itself is standard debt collectors stuff and contains nothing particularly worrying in itself if you are used to seeing these things. It is outlining all the bad things that COULD happen to you if you don't do what they say. There are three “Mays” and one “could” in the threats section.

My view is you can safely ignore it for the time being. I bet in about ten days you will get another similarly worded one. It is possible you will get a “solicitors” letter. The change of letter or source of letter is designed to make you think something is happening. Nothing is happening.

 

If you engage with them they will begin to determine how best to crack your nut. The approaches they will make will depend upon what they can find out about you, i.e. do you work, do you have property etc.

 

Later on they may make a nuisance of themselves by persistent calling or other trouble. At that point you can take some action against them.

 

MINOR WARNING: If you get a statutory demand this is possibly a precursor to bankruptcy proceedings and you should get back on this post and get advice. Similarly if you get a County Court Summons.

 

May I suggest you open a spreadsheet on them with the following headings:

 

DATE TIME EVENT CLI NOTES

 

(CLI stands for calling line identity and is the number shown on your phone when they call you).

 

Keep a log of everything that happens, letters, calls etc, as it may come in useful later on.

 

First entry: Date of loan

Second Entry: Date of Last Payment

Third entry: Date of this latest letter and some brief details.

Fourth Entry: wahtever happens next.

 

Their head office number is 01280 707523 but this may not be the number presented to you when they call.

 

They may also use this number 08707469049. I found it on this website which is useful:

 

www.whocallsme.com

 

If you get any missed or ignored calls go to the site and type in the number. It is likely someone else has added an entry and you will identify the caller.

 

Interestingly enough this mob seem to be owned by the Faccenda Group, Britain’s second largest poultry processor! According to Wikipedia “In 2002, the company was fined £75,000 for polluting the River Avon from its Sutton Benger plant”. Also, “The Environment Agency found in 2006 that the smell from the Brackley plant fell outside limits under the Pollution Prevention and Control and Regulations”.

 

I would venture to suggest that the same working practices to be found in the parent firm will manifest themselves in the child! And as such they are suitably qualified to join the ranks of other DCA’s operating in this Country!

 

With regard to your future actions at this stage you can do one of two things, Don’t respond or Respond.

 

1. DONT RESPOND

 

I myself have had considerable success in not responding. As a result I am about two and a half years past the default dates on nine cards, one loan and one bank account. Up to this point by simply not responding I have had no legal trouble at all.

 

If you think about that it is quite astounding. Out of eleven accounts not one thinks they have a sufficiently strong case to take legal action (or they don’t have sufficient information to decide if it is worth while because I haven't given them any, or they are too busy, too lazy or too incompetent to go any further without me playing ball). (I freely admit this could change at any time).

 

At first I was receiving a daily onslaught of calls and mail but it has dropped off a lot and now I get one or two calls per day from their system (an automated calling device) which my system (BT call minder) takes care of and everything else gets meticulously filed against the day I might need it. If things carry on like this then in three and a half years the debts will become statute barred and my credit record should be clean.

 

However, be warned that this strategy has some potential pit falls. I have received four statutory demands which are the precursors to bankruptcy. I ignored them but this was a gamble as by so doing I opened myself up to the possibility of being made bankrupt. However, my personal circumstances are such that this would not be problem for anyone except the creditors. None have been followed up on so far.

 

Also, you could get hassled at work or your neighbours approached. Both actions by the DCA’s are illegal but they do it anyway. Again my circumstances are such that this does not cause a problem, but you would have to think about the impact in your own case.

 

You could get a personal visit from them. This is not as bad as it sounds. They have no power as such. They can ask you for the money and you can tell them you want communication in writing only and that should be that. This is very rare. As far as I know I have never had a personal visit from any of eleven accounts in almost three years. (I cannot say for sure as I am not always there!).

 

Also, your credit record is trashed until May 2012.

 

If you take this course of action and get away with it then by about June 2012 (or June 2011 if you live in Scotland) your debt will be statute barred and they will not be able to do anything.

 

2. RESPOND

 

This is probably the course of action most people on this forum would recommend. I cannot really advise you properly as I have never done it (except in one on-going case of bank charge reclaiming coupled with some other stuff which I must admit has been fun up to now).

 

In general you will end up doing a lot of work, having potentially quite an exciting time of it and at the end of the day a possible court date and the lottery of a win or loss.

 

I would not advise you which course of action to take. Have a look at what other people say.

 

What I would say though is to consider whether you will need credit in the future and how you will live your life moving on. If you may re-mortgage within the next three years (jointly) then you may need to clear this up in order to clean up your credit record (but it is trashed at the moment and there is a lot to do to clear it up and you might not succeed quickly or easily).

 

For myself, I have for the last three years totally changed my outlook on life, both as a consumer, and on what I think is important. I will never take out a credit agreement again, and am happy to live within my means, and do not care what anybody else thinks.

 

If you want a new washing machine save for it and use the launderette in the meantime. It will be cheaper as you will have cash for it and can do a deal.

 

Neither possessions, new cars or an acquisitive lifestyle are necessary for happiness. Also, I will be richer in the long term anyway if I save for what I want, instead of paying a load of crappy bankers interest.

 

BTW I am glad your husband knows, as this is one less problem for you. Also, do not let it dominate your life. It is like the weather, handle it like you would the weather.

 

Finally, you should consider your attitude to the debt. Do you feel you have a moral obligation to pay it? A lot of people do and that is very gratifying in itself. If I could pay my debts I would. Having said that the amount of interest and charges I have paid over the years is such that I don't believe I have any moral obligations left. Also, the treatment I have had from the DCA’s demonstrates a complete lack of both morality, and regard for the law, effectively discharging any moral obligation I may have had to them.

 

It has become evident in the last two years that the moral question need not necessarily be raised. Consider; bank charges, Fred the shred, the bank bail out, MP’s expenses, PPI miss-selling, the behaviour of institutions and DCA’s. I say; They have had their’s and are still taking it, you should get yours!!

Edited November 28, 2009 by comebackjimmy
Corrected spacing and punctuation

[Bazooka Boo]

Failure to respond to this notice within seven days may result in legal action being commenced by our client.

 

When you read their threatogrammes carefully, you will see them for what they really are.

If they were really serious about getting you to pay this money to them, they would remove all the, May's and replace them with 'WILL'.

 

Please note that upon being granted a County Court Judgment, costs and interest may be added to the above amount. If this is not paid our client could apply to the court for further action to be taken against you which may include:

 

See, there is absolutely NO one definite threat of taking 'Any' action.

 

- Instructing a County Court Bailiff to enter your property and levy goods to the value of the above liability for subsequent sale at auction. Any proceeds from auction would, after the deduction of any cost incurred, discharge some or all of the liability.

- Obtaining an attachment to your earnings with your employer. This would mean that a court agreed sum would be deducted from your salary before you receive it.

- Obtaining a Charging Order against your property, should you own one. This would mean that this liabilty would be settled upon the sale of your property, prior to you receiving any of the sale proceeds.

 

All of the above, can ONLY be done 'IF' they take you to court and obtain a CCJ against you.

Then you would need to default or not pay that CCJ, then they will have to apply to take you to court again, and then the court will want to know why you have not been paying the judgement. It is then decided by 'the Judge' the best course of action, he will decide whether any of the above actions should be applied, not them.

 

To avoid these proceedings being issued against you, contact must be made through our legal department on the above telephone number and your payment in full must be received within the next seven days.

Completely untrue and unlawful request, this goes well beyond the OFT Debt Collection Guidelines, and they know it.

Not only do you have a choice of what method you wish to use to contact them, but the request for 18k within 7 days is preposterous and you really should report them to the OFT for this.

 

Alternatively you can make payments by using our credit/debit card facilities on the above telephone number.

Again another clear breach of the OFT debt collection Guidelines, telling you to take out more credit, thereby putting you further into debt.

 

Legal Department

At least someone has got a sense of humour, I am surprised they know how to spell it, the audacity of using it on their threatogrammes, well, you gotta laugh:D

 

Ruthbridge are flavour of the month at the minute, I rang them during the week with another fellow CAGgers, ref no, and within the space of two minutes, they had told me his name, and address. So that just goes to show you how professional these cowboys are, if they can't even stick to Data Protection Guidelines, then they sure as hell won't stay inside the OFT's!

[LittleBear999]

Hi guys,

 

Well, I have taken advice from here and kind of kept still and calm to see what happens next next.

 

I just recieved a letter today from them stating that they are prepared to make an offer for me to pay half the amount owed and then they will call it quits.

 

However, if I don't pay them they will start bankruptcy proceedings against them.

 

As yet I haven't replied anything to them for both letters.

 

Any advice or thoughts on this next step??

 

Many thanks

[hungrybear]

Hi guys,

 

Well, I have taken advice from here and kind of kept still and calm to see what happens next next.

 

I just recieved a letter today from them stating that they are prepared to make an offer for me to pay half the amount owed and then they will call it quits.

 

However, if I don't pay them they will start bankruptcy proceedings against them.

 

As yet I haven't replied anything to them for both letters.

 

Any advice or thoughts on this next step??

 

Many thanks

 

 

The fact that they have dropped 50% of the bat is a good sign (usually desperation). How long until the 14 days on the cca application are up?

[Bazooka Boo]

However, if I don't pay them they will start bankruptcy proceedings against them.

 

OK so you are fully aware about the threat of Bankruptcy;

Bankruptcy - Frequently Asked Questions

 

However this shower couldn't organise the proverbial, in a brewery!

 

Whilst you meet the requirements for Bankruptcy (over £750 owed) the actual likelihood of these lot doing it is extremely rare, the fact that your 'alleged' debt has even landed on their desk, is indicative of the enforceability of it..

 

But lets not get ahead of ourselves here, having re-read you threads, did you ever ask them for a copy of your CCA?

If not why not? Do that Now!

 

If you have asked for it and they have failed to respond with one, and you have that recorded, then the account is firmly in dispute and they can threaten all they like but are 'legally' unable to carry out any further collection activity against you.

 

But first you need to say whether you have done as advised, and sent them a CCA request or not?

If not then you must do that, ruthbridge are renowned for buying up SB and unenforceable debts.

[citizenB]

babybear, until they prove there is a debt to be collected upon ie by producing a copy of an agreement with your signature on.. there is little they can do.

 

You might be interested in this news report.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/debt-collection-industry/236641-oft-lenders-must-not.html

 

HTH

[diddydicky]

As far as your husband is concerned you can rest easy. Your debts are your alone. They cannot take his property to try and satisfy your debts and, if they continue to threaten to do so, you should report them to the OFT.

 

As far as Ruthbridge goes it appears you know what this is about. The first step is to write to Ruthbridge asking for a copy of your credit agreement as provided by the Consumer Credit Act. The fee for doing so is £1.

You must send your letter by recorded delivery to ensure Ruthbridge cannot deny receiving your request, and in any case you will need to know when they received it because they have 12 days in which to provide (plus a day's post at each end).

You should also stress strongly that the fee is for paying the prescribed for for the credit agreement and is not to be used in paying off the debt.

 

Finally - but you've probably guessed this anyway - do not speak to them on the phone. If they ring you then refuse to answer any identity questions. If they persist then just hang up (it is not illegal to do so!).

It is normal for debt collection agencies to bully and threaten you, and this can be very stressful if you are not accustomed to it. Sadly many regulars on here are used to it and know how to respond.

 

she cannot QUITE rest easy,

 

if she is married and they obtain a ccj the bailiff can seize jointly owned property

 

in the case of TV etc he will not just accept that one name is on the receipt and will seize it anyway and make YOU prove to the contrary

 

a little bit of careful pre planning before any court proceedings should be able to sort this out

 

Please note that "knocked up" bills of sale will not do- only bona fide headed retailer/traders invoices

[hungrybear]

she cannot QUITE rest easy,

 

if she is married and they obtain a ccj the bailiff can seize jointly owned property. ie anything bought after marriage out of joint finances.

 

in the case of TV etc he will not just accept that one name is on the receipt and will seize it anyway and make YOU prove to the contrary he has to get in first THEN talk walking possession whilst you fire up photoshop to prove who owns stuff

 

a little bit of careful pre planning before any court proceedings should be able to sort this out. good locks for a start

 

Please note that "knocked up" bills of sale will not do- only bona fide headed retailer/traders invoices yes get a good printer to go with photo shop

 

dicky what you trying to do scare her to death? there's about 6 to 8 things have to go against her yet before they start backing the transit van up to the from door.

 

If a bailiff comes to my house (and by some miracle gets in), everything in my house is essential for business use - except the Mrs and the kids, he can have those, but he must leave a receipt for the kids!

[diddydicky]

dicky what you trying to do scare her to death? there's about 6 to 8 things have to go against her yet before they start backing the transit van up to the from door.

 

If a bailiff comes to my house (and by some miracle gets in), everything in my house is essential for business use - except the Mrs and the kids, he can have those, but he must leave a receipt for the kids!

 

no, wasn't trying to do that - but i do feel that i should attempt to correct what appeared to be "open and shut" advice lest she believed that to be the true picture.

 

very few creditors use bailiffs but anything done "after the event (ccj) will be seen for what it is whereas prevention before the event it less likely to attract close scrutiny.

[diddydicky]

ps youd then have to do the meals washing up and laundry yourself- why dont you take time to think about it!!:don;t act in hasteD

[Bazooka Boo]

I think we are getting way ahead of ourselves here, this has not even reached the stages of actually going to court, least of them obtaining a CCJ, so is a long long way from any bailiffs yet.

 

The OP has still to come back and inform us if it is enforceable or not, slowly slowly catchy monkey..

[comebackjimmy]

I agree with Bazooka boo. We are way ahead of where the situation is at present, though it does no harm to be thinking ahead.

 

However, the immediate thing to address is the latest letter.

 

The first letter Littlebear got was quite frightening for her and contained a lot of threat. This second letter, which I predicted would come (though this prediction is far from clever as we all knew it would come!) has changed it’s tone. It now talks about early settlement etc. and is much milder in tone (on this occasion) aside from the bankruptcy references.

 

In my view probably no one at the DCA knows about this letter as such. It is number 2 in the Threatomatic cycle punched out automatically by the computer if there is no response to the first letter. They are (automatically) trying a second letter to see if they can at least get half without having to do anything.

 

Should Littlebear respond and if so how?

 

If Littlebear does not respond what is the next move of the DCA?

 

For the purposes of this thread we could argue there are two possible next moves by the DCA IF no response is made by Littlebear.

 

1. statutory demand.

 

2. everything else, and by this I mean further letters, threats of home visits etc.

 

I have had many letters and cycles of letters stating the next move is bankruptcy. For the most part no further letters (SD’s) actually advancing the bankruptcy process ever followed. (I have received a few SD’s which I chose to ignore and no further proceedings were ever taken. Instead I went back into the threatomatic Cycle).

 

I would expect that if no response is made by Littlebear then the next letter in the threatomatic cycle will be differently worded, adopting a different tone. It may for example come from a “Different Department” such as the “Pre-Court Division” or “Bankruptcy Litigation” etc. Alternatively, it could be a solicitors letter or a “solicitors” letter, the latter purporting to be a solicitor but just number “x” in the threat system, or indeed it may come from another DCA or “another DCA”, this latter being Ruthbridge by another name.

 

In all these cases it is more of the same and not a cause for immediate worry.

 

I think it is far more likely that the DCA will resort to option 2 than option 1. This is because to really make someone bankrupt is expensive and counter productive. If you are really ready to take legal action the most productive route is a County Court Judgement that does not involve bringing possible other creditors into the equation.

 

The threat of bankruptcy should therefore be put in context. It is designed to scare you. If followed up it is expensive for the creditor, and risks diluting potential recoveries because every other creditor gets to share in whatever you’ve got.

 

My estimate is that the chances of the next letter being a SD are less than 1 in 10.

 

I would therefore give serious thought to not responding to this letter at this stage. By not doing so Littlebear runs a small risk of receiving a Statutory Demand. If she receives this her options are then to apply to have it set aside or ignore it and see if the DCA actually goes on to try for bankruptcy. Unless the DCA has a properly executed credit agreement the banckruptcy petition would fail. If the DCA has such an agreement why would they go for Bankruptcy rather than a CCJ?

 

It is also worth bearing in mind that the authorities now frown upon SD’s being used without the possession of the Executed Agreement or the intent to follow up. This is a further risk (albeit a small one) to the DCA.

 

For the reasons stated above, I would myself ignore this laterst letter as I think it is no more credible than the earlier ones, and see what they do next.

 

Certainly Littlebear you should not panic at this stage.

 

PS. Littlebear, you should log the arrival of your letter and file it, as per my earlier post. If you write to the DCA asking for a copy of your Credit Agreement use a template on this site, DO NOT ACKNOWLEDGE THE DEBT, and do NOT SIGN your letter.

Edited December 5, 2009 by comebackjimmy
because the system keeps buggering up my formating!