OUTSTANDING FINANCE>>Log Book Loans

[Nicky Bodmin]

Trooper im trying to help you but you dont seem to understand what im trying to say "good faith" only works with HP not a bos i know this ive been there and done it. the legal advise i have is it doesnt work as it doesnt matter if you have good faith or not wether you are a party or not.

The bos isnt just a document between them as a lender and the borrower it also acts as a warrant of repossesion in other words they or their agents (meaning anything upto and includeing registered bailiffs ie the proper ones they never use) can come and get it at will they dont need to go to court or anything.

If the car your trying to protect was their customers when the bos was signed they can take it from whomever has it end of. The only thing you can do is hide it and try and make it invalid by the ways mentioned if you go down this route and their bailiffs turn up they will take it and if you call the police they will stand there and watch once they have seen the bos and only intervene if their is a breach of the peace.

 

they are the facts the best thing you can do is hide the car i emplore you to do that if nothing else or you are just playing into their hands and you will be the one who suffers

Hi Trooper Pacman is correct I was advised this once before by TS and again today. Their is a FIXED SUM LOAN regulated CCA 1974 please read into it, it has no bairing on this kinda loan. We all need to see this before we start

to use It. Look at the top of their credit agrreement

Edited November 12, 2009 by Nicky Bodmin
wrong date

[Nicky Bodmin]

I feel at the moment with the Licence very shaky that a Time Order application will keep them away untill theirt Appeal has been heard.

Basicaly they by trying to remove the car thery have stopped the repayments by taking the car then the outstanding piad after the sale.

What a Time Order does is re-opens that CA with request of the Judge to make payments that are more managable, it will be far less than they set out in the original CA.

Also the interest is frozen from that point on wards, but you do have to request this of the court to make it part of the new agreement between you and the courts.

It will stop them from taking it because you will be paying the debt.

At much more affordable rate.

This will help you untill the HCJ rule.

Its not suitable for all cases but most

[applecart]

Hi Nicky

 

I know you mean well...... but, no, no, no.....

 

The fact that it says 'Fixed Sum' has no baring at all - their Agreements are conditional sale agreements.

 

Please don't take this the wrong way Nicky when I say - Be careful that you do not unwittingly misguide the advise of well intentioned posters... your comments are stepping eerily close to the types of comment that Log Book Loans touts would make (i.e throwing consumers off the right path)......and I am sure that is not your intention?

 

If you are going to make an assertion - try to quote from legislation - Not from 'hearsay'.

 

It will then make a lot more sense and not come across as a 'smokescreen'.

 

I don't mean to offend in anyway - I know you mean well : )

 

Apple

[applecart]

Hi Nicky....

 

to start mentioning 'time orders' also seems ill placed.

 

Why have you gone down this route at this time?

 

Please tell?

 

Apple : )

[Nicky Bodmin]

I feel for some that it would be a quick way to put a holt to enforcement.

Other applications to challenge the BOS takes time, it is also very difficult to start a claim without a solicitor.

A time order can be presented to the Courts wqithout a solicitor

Its show willingness to pay the debt but at the same time can make repayments less.

One thing I have understood about LBL they do not wait for any kind of Court procdure they just Take given half the chance.

It also can be gained in about fiften mins to half hour.

Im definately not saying instead of application challenging the BOS but as a way of making the car safe untill the BOS can be void.

 

Please can you talk to Trading Standards as now I feel that I am looking like one of them LBL.

I truely am not. My car has been taken and sold. Very much a victom.

I also now want to know why I have been given the wrong information.

It has made me feel that maybe I should let you guys carry on with your fight.

I dont feel my advise is now right.

That makes me feel bad

 

I dont wish harm

[applecart]

Hi Nicky

 

Don't get discouraged - i just wanted to let you know that some of the things you were saying - came across in a different light - just so as you are made aware really.

 

I know you mean well and in the main, your posts certainly keep me on my toes - so I for one, am more than happy to challenge any posts that you may have unwittingly posted due to ill advise.

 

I think in essence, we can tell when you have been mis-guided.

 

Rest assured, there are those of us who will work to correct where we can. As caggers correct me too..................

 

It is important to always post your thoughts and findings - because that's how we all learn.

 

You are a star - and, have been a champion on here - don't you dare leave us : )

 

Apple : )

[trooper68]

Hi All,

 

wow, we've been busy!!

 

(by the way, I don't feel the need to speak of 'what I know' or 'been there got the t-shirt' - I find the Law is all you really need to rely on)

 

OK... 'good faith' is as I posted earlier - I do not retract my post in any way.

 

Pacman - agreed, I found the context where you made reference to 'good faith' as party to statute - it is used in the Hire purchase Act 1964.

 

Trooper - when you made mention of the number of purchasers of a vehicle - this is referred to in the same Act - basically the Act protects the FIRST purchaser:

 

Hire Purchase Act 1964 (c. 53) - Statute Law Database

 

Whilst the Act is called the Hire Purchase Act - it does offer protection for Conditional Sale Agreements as well.

 

As we know lbl's agreements are NOT HP Agreements, they are conditional Sale Agreements where the BoS will refer to a vehicle which is used as Security.

 

Now... when we take this significant law into the equation....there is even more protection for the purchaser of a vehicle that has a BoS as security for the lender (subject to being the first purchaser that is)

 

For as soon as the first innocent party (innocent that is, in that they are unaware of any outstanding finance at the time they buy the car) purchases the vehicle - the trader cannot hold that person liable in any way and they CANNOT take the car!!!

 

see here (taken from the hpAct 1964)

 

(2) Where the disposition referred to in subsection (1) above is to a private purchaser, and he is a purchaser of the motor vehicle in good faith without notice of the hire-purchase or conditional sale agreement (the “relevant agreement”) that disposition shall have effect as if the creditor’s title to the vehicle has been vested in the debtor immediately before that disposition.

 

This makes things a whole lot clearer........

 

We certainly get there in the end, don't we?

 

I just knew they couldn't take cars the way they are going around and doing and dis-rupting the lifes of innocent buyers!!!

 

so... lets say that - you hide the car; because you have to with this bunch.... you then get as much proof that their BoS is unenforceable - just to help your case (the benefit of doing this, should be to help prove that they took the car after a third or more was paid against the agreement and you may be able to get the benefit of them having to pay you the cost of which they sold the car for (if they have) or you can get them by virtue of section 105 & then claim the cost of the car by virtue of section 106) - then; prove with out a doubt that you are the first purchaser of the vehicle and you rely on the Act above for further protection.......oh happy happy days : )

 

Best to get a solicitor involved though - just to make sure they wrap up all the relevant laws that can protect you in one claim.

 

Are we agreed? or is there more to consider?????

 

Apple : )

 

 

Apple, that made things alot clearer. thank you I retrack my statemant in relation to "in good faith".

 

Nice one, as always apple

 

trooper68

[Logbook Crusader]

Morning all.

 

Apple - Are you sure that the LBL Contract is definitely a Conditional Sale Agreement? If so, how and why? This could have a real bearing on my case.

 

Also - is there any way of finding out from the OFT why they have revoked the licence as this could give us all a direction to look at in relation to what they have done to us.

 

Finally to Apple again - do you ever sleep LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Crusader

[applecart]

Hi Trooper, Crusader, All

 

Thanks for your comments : )

 

Sleep - what's that???? ha ha ha

 

Crusader - in answer to your first question - this rather long post (yep, another one) may assist.......

 

"Hi Nicky

 

Lets debate this.....

 

Your right, the lbl is not a HP Agreement - It is a fixed sum agreement.

 

But, whilst it is a 'fixed sum agreement' - it is still a 'conditional sale agreement' regulated by the CCA 1974.

 

Fixed sum - simply means that they have given you one fixed sum of money to be repaid over a fixed term.

 

"A conditional sale agreement looks from the outside like any completed contract – the seller sells the goods and the buyer receives them. However, conditional sale agreements involve a creditor selling goods to a consumer (the buyer), whilst withholding title to the goods until all payments have been made." (this is what LBL do by securing the Agreement by way of a Bill of Sale; the minor difference is that they sell you what you already own in order to gain the title, but tend not to tell you this - dodgy or what??)

 

"Typically, a retailer, the creditor's agent, will supply the goods to the consumer, while transferring title to the creditor. The creditor will pay his agent for the transfer of title. The consumer can use the goods while continuing to make periodic payments to the creditor. On paying the final instalment, title passes from the creditor to the consumer. " (Log book Loans happily allow you to keep your vehicle - whilst you pay them for the priviledge, whilst they retain 'title' - Hope this now clarifies my point?)

 

 

"Conditional sale or Hire purchase?

Traditionally, conditional sale agreements have been regulated in parallel with hire-purchase agreements. If there has been a difference between them, it is purely that under hire-purchase, the consumer is under no obligation to take title to the goods, whereas under conditional sale, transfer of title is automatic upon the completion of the condition (usually of course, the full payment of the goods)." (this should now cement my point)

 

Therefore Nicky - The Good faith statute law that Trooper and Pacman debated earlier..... applies for conditional sale agreements (as well as HP ones)

 

I am more than clear.........Log Book Loans Agreements ARE DEFINATELY 'Conditional Sale Agreements' - a consequence of this fact for Log Book Loans is that the Hire Purchase Act 1964 protects the first purchaser who has unwittingly purchased a car where it is found that they have not been made aware of lbl's financial interest at the point of sale and we have seen - they are not even made aware for some months later either.

 

Don't be confused, the definition of a conditional sale agreement is easily found by a 'google' search.

 

For further clarification - please see the OFT booklet:

 

Powered by Google Docs

 

Hope this helps to keep matters in perspective Nicky : )

 

Apple "

Are you letting your bank keep your money Are you giving away thousands of pounds??

 

Many people aren't claiming all of the money they are entitled to when they make their bank charges claims.

 

You have been forced to pay unfair bank charges.

Have you forgotten that your bank has charged you inteest on those charges?

If you are overdrawn and the bank owes you charges - then your overdraft is made up of charges - money which you bank owes you.

Yet you are paying interest to the bank - on your own money!!! - a nice little earner for your bank.

 

Follow this link to see the discussions on this.

You might even double the size of your claim.

 

(I've no idea how the massive blue box appeared - sorry)

 

In answer to your second question - OFT say they work toward being 'transparent' - but obviously, we have to counter that on-going cases are not fully in the public domain - however - you could rely on any info that is in the public domain, in the case of lbl; there is mention of them being advised to amend their BoS in Feb 2006, a minded to revoke in March 09 and a determination to revoke in October 09 - this is not the type of actions taken against law abiding license holders....

 

Apple.

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi Apple I have PM you I want you to take a look at what I have recieved from LBL

[dickym3]

Hi Nicky

Hope you are well

I am still waiting for my BoS from LBL - can't do much til I have it. But will keep you updated. Hope you are making progress. Rich

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi I had mine emailed to me they where quick about it.

I have had a letter from them basicaly they want me to forward proof of ownership of my car.

My situation is different from most on here, I have always owned my car and someone put a LBL on mine without my knowledge.

So they really didnt have the right to take and sell my car.

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi Apple Trooper and Site Team,

 

Can you all please take a look at this letter from LBL.

Advice please

 

 

lsrc="http://i10photobucket04..com/albums/af166/nicholasinclair/logbookloansRESPONSELETTER001.jpg"

Edited November 19, 2009 by Nicky Bodmin

[kiptower]

nick that a link to your hard drive you posted

[Nicky Bodmin]

I no that now what can I do to remove it

[trooper68]

Hi Apple Trooper and Site Team,

 

Can you all please take a look at this letter from LBL.

Advice please

 

 

lsrc="http://i10photobucket04..com/albums/af166/nicholasinclair/logbookloansRESPONSELETTER001.jpg"[/quote]

 

Hi Nicky

 

Nice of them.

 

Is this the reply to the Letter before action?

 

Ok, point 1, Nicky can you provide ownership, other than the log book? no, nor can I for mine...Do you have a photo of the car?

2. They have photos, oooh, did you not report this to the police, well the police have a duty to follow up. So they admit they are fencing stolen goods...

3. He 's inviting you for you comments, Nicky, like I've said one door closes, the other opens.

 

And to finish off with the usual waffle.

 

Nicky, if it was me, i'll be down the police station with the letter, it proves that they have further evidance to your complaint

 

Trooper68

[Nicky Bodmin]

Hi Trooper,

 

I can do better than LOGBOOK in my name.

1.I have a letter from my friend whos name the car has been in stating that it was in his name but the owner is Nicky and that car had been mine for several years. The car was registered to a friend of mine,it has been in his name for about three years. Remembering that the car has been off road for 8 months for accident repair, then back on road for 5 weeks before the engine blew up putting it off road for a year. till January 09

 

2. I have pic proof of car being outside my house on lots of occasions and lots of individual people that have seen car parked up for that year.

 

3. I have all purchase documents from company I bought it from and the bank transfer on bank statements and the transferee slip.

 

4. I have 3 MOT and have evidence of the insurance claim two years ago.

 

5. I have proof of an extended warranty that was put on the car summer 08

 

6. Proof of payment for the engine and a letter from the place I bought the engine and the date last summer that I first enquired about the engine all before the said loan was taken out.

 

So I dont think there is any way that this can be argued by them.

I am still going to court to enforce this to make doubly sure I am compensated to the full of my loss.

Can you think of any other things that I have not covered to help support ownership

[Nicky Bodmin]

Trooper im trying to help you but you dont seem to understand what im trying to say "good faith" only works with HP not a bos i know this ive been there and done it. the legal advise i have is it doesnt work as it doesnt matter if you have good faith or not wether you are a party or not.

The bos isnt just a document between them as a lender and the borrower it also acts as a warrant of repossesion in other words they or their agents (meaning anything upto and includeing registered bailiffs ie the proper ones they never use) can come and get it at will they dont need to go to court or anything.

If the car your trying to protect was their customers when the bos was signed they can take it from whomever has it end of. The only thing you can do is hide it and try and make it invalid by the ways mentioned if you go down this route and their bailiffs turn up they will take it and if you call the police they will stand there and watch once they have seen the bos and only intervene if their is a breach of the peace.

 

they are the facts the best thing you can do is hide the car i emplore you to do that if nothing else or you are just playing into their hands and you will be the one who suffers

 

Hi just a question about the reposseion of the car, from my experiance of this yes the police said they are only there to stop a breech of the peace.

Question is if the owner of the car stood firm and tried to stop baliffs taking the car and there was a breech of the peace,who would the police arrest? The baliffs or the owner of the car?

I put this to the SITE TEAM

[trooper68]

Nicky

 

Cool, I think thats enough proof. You had the engine replaced if I remember? Unjust enrichment, its looking good.

 

So how are you going to proceed? Are you going to copy and send off proof?

 

trooper68

[Nicky Bodmin]

Yes Im just waiting for the letter from my friend. Then everything will be forwarded with the amount Im claiming for the value of the car, how much I have spent on it. Taxi bills for the last 6 months and every loss I have occured due to not having a car.

Can anyone from the Site team think of any compensation that I can legaly apply for because I have to list the amount claimed to the courts.