Student finance, local education authority gross mistakes and possible loss of University continuation

[2ltr16valve]

Just had an email back from them again ! full of crad ! ! ! !

 

 

Case Reference 2009/0####### Dear Mr ########

 

Thank you for your email of 1 December, in response to mine of the same date, about the overpayment of your student funding.

 

You make reference to Regulation 115(1) and 115(2) of the Education (Student Support) Regulations in relation to the collection of overpayments.

 

I should perhaps firstly explain that the Secretary of State delegated responsibility for administering the Regulations to individual local authorities. Whilst Regulation 115(2) does offer some discretion in the recovery of an overpayment, that discretion rests entirely with the local authority concerned - if they consider it is not appropriate to recover the overpayment.

 

I note that the Authority has, in part, accepted their administration of your application was at fault and has awarded you a compensation payment of £920 - it it not clear whether you have accepted this payment. However, the authority also upholds that you must repay the overpayment of funding that you received under the student support regulations.

 

This Department can only advise on the provisions of the Education (Student Support) Regulations. Local authorities (and, with effect from 1 September 2009, Student Finance England) are entireley responsibile for administering the regulations in individual cases. Where disputes arise, only the courts can give an authoritative ruling. In this response, you may wish to seek independent legal advice.

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

Mrs ########

Public Communications Unit

 

 

My reply

 

Case Reference 2009/#########Thank you for your reply.

 

It was my LEA who advised me to contact YOUR office ! I am sick of the buck being passed back and forth... ! You shall see this story in The Guardian news paper shortly. It has already been pre-approved to go to press but waiting on my approval.

 

I will take this to court if that is necessary, you would think the fact its a Government mistake in the first place the Government department in charge of the funding would intervene. Disgraceful !

 

Disappointed.

 

Mr ###########

 

What do I do now ? Seems even the Sec of states office are just passing the buck !!!! So sick of this, and its not even covered under bankruptcy !!!!

Why should I and many others be held accountable for a debt that a incompetent government department has caused !

Edited December 29, 2009 by 2ltr16valve

[Marypopps]

I have noticed this all happened at the end of last year so would be interested in knowing what happened.

 

SLC have overpaid me £4042 in grants as they have calculated my entitlement on the wrong income details for my hubby. I rang and checked during my year at uni that they were using the correct figures as I thought it was too much. On every occasion I was assured they were right although now I am being told they have no record of me checking this with anyone. Ive already given them the dates and names of people I spoke to!

 

Reading your thread makes me think I have no hope but 1. I cant afford to repay and 2. dont see why I should have to repay over four grand because they made a mistake.

 

I am wanting to train to be a teacher but have been told I wont be able to apply for help with the tuition costs because of this overpayment.

 

I have thought about going to the papers but dont want to give that tosser David Cameron anything else to gloat about.

The whole situation is a bloody joke.

 

Sorry - I am mad

[2ltr16valve]

I have noticed this all happened at the end of last year so would be interested in knowing what happened.

 

SLC have overpaid me £4042 in grants as they have calculated my entitlement on the wrong income details for my hubby. I rang and checked during my year at uni that they were using the correct figures as I thought it was too much. On every occasion I was assured they were right although now I am being told they have no record of me checking this with anyone. Ive already given them the dates and names of people I spoke to!

 

Reading your thread makes me think I have no hope but 1. I cant afford to repay and 2. dont see why I should have to repay over four grand because they made a mistake.

 

I am wanting to train to be a teacher but have been told I wont be able to apply for help with the tuition costs because of this overpayment.

 

I have thought about going to the papers but dont want to give that tosser David Cameron anything else to gloat about.

The whole situation is a bloody joke.

 

Sorry - I am mad

 

 

I have got no where sadly

 

Contacted the sec of states office and was just given a person to talk to on the phone with promises of action but nothing done ! again and again and again !

 

Only way I can see this going anywhere is court action to challenge their incompetence !

 

Sorry to hear about your troubles as well, they are a shower of pee

[2ltr16valve]

This is still ongoing ladies and gents !!!

 

My local MP has written to the person now responsible ... (David Willets?) and hes replied saying tough pretty much ! Also saying that I was paid compensation, this should be sufficient !

 

Stating its up to the LEA to decide to write it off not him... GRRR do these people not read the legislation ? It clearly states "all overpayments must be recovered unless the sec of state deems it not appropriate to do so" (paraphrased)

 

 

So, Does anyone have any information on how I raise a court case on this ? to try to get a judge to write this off, being its been caused by the incompetence of the LEA and was paid as a grant in the first instance so had they done their jobs right would never off been repayable..!

[ladypenelope82]

Hiya, I am a student in a similar situation to you, student finance england have assured me that they will pay my tuition fees as they did last year, ( I had to suspend due to illness) and returned to study in September, my application was being processed, and now they have told me that due to the fact that I am studying part time on a full time course they wont be paying my fees and will only give me part time fees, (not near enough to pay for the course) I am now left in the position that I have studied for 3 months and 2 years on a foundation degree before this to get to this level and they are now saying they wont pay. Although I have medical reasons for studying part time on the full time course and received full time funding last year, and was assured I would get the same again this year, which is why I started studying, not only are they now denying all of this they are also expecting me to pay back £3000 I received last year. I am a single parent on disability benefits with an illness made worse by stress, I just wandered how you got on in the end and if you found a way of making these people accountable for their lies and incompetences.

 

Penny

[2ltr16valve]

Hi Penny,

 

sorry to hear of your problems. they really are a shower of XXXX !!!

 

I have not got any further with my issue and will be taking it up directly with the Sec of state, being as I have made a complaint with the relevant minister.... and was told that its nothing to do with them, take it up with SFE... they say take it up with LEA ! and vice versa, so the only final way to get these accountable is court action which I will take when I have more time to do so..... as they can not be allowed to carry on like this.

 

Can I ask for everyones permission with issues in this thread to contact me and give you contact details so I can contact you if I need to build a class action type case /

 

Thanks

[ScarletPimpernel]

Whilst I so not know anything about student finance, I am a former local councillor, and the thing that strikes me about all of this is that no-one at the LA seems to have been held to account for the errors that were made and that have caused so many problems. Have you been in touch with any of the elected councillors, especially a) those on relevant committees, and b) members if the opposition parties.

 

LA employees are obliged to answer questions from councillors, but if they are unaware of what's going on they can't ask. Unsurprisingly, LA staff will often do their damnedest to ensure that they keep problems amongst themselves (and civil servants), often to the detriment of constituents. They seem to forget that they are there to serve you, not the other way round! I note that your MP is involved, but it won't hurt to put a bit more pressure on from councillors.

 

Lastly, contact Private Eye; they are keen on this sort of story for their 'Rotten Boroughs' page.

[2ltr16valve]

Whilst I so not know anything about student finance, I am a former local councillor, and the thing that strikes me about all of this is that no-one at the LA seems to have been held to account for the errors that were made and that have caused so many problems. Have you been in touch with any of the elected councillors, especially a) those on relevant committees, and b) members if the opposition parties.

 

LA employees are obliged to answer questions from councillors, but if they are unaware of what's going on they can't ask. Unsurprisingly, LA staff will often do their damnedest to ensure that they keep problems amongst themselves (and civil servants), often to the detriment of constituents. They seem to forget that they are there to serve you, not the other way round! I note that your MP is involved, but it won't hurt to put a bit more pressure on from councillors.

 

Lastly, contact Private Eye; they are keen on this sort of story for their 'Rotten Boroughs' page.

 

 

HI SP

 

Thank you for your input.

 

I know of no one that has been held directly accountable, but maybe the Student section assistant manager was the fall guy as he has now gone.... if he's retired or was forced to retire I do not know...

I have been in contact with my local MP's and to be honest, they have not been very helpful... I have been told to go to a surgery but I can not discuss the complexity of this issue at an open surgery, and the MP is not willing to book a private meeting before she sees me at surgery. Now I am not at university I will be going along to a surgery and to the press now... this needs to end.

I have had to take yet another break from my studies due to the initial health problems caused by all the stress that this problem has caused me. I have reaccuring problems with my lungs now caused as an after effect of the pneumonia I got before

[Spectral]

Hi

 

I`ve also got a similar problem with Student Finance England. I`m 2nd year full time student and have been assessed last academic year for childcare grant, parents learning allowance and adult dependants grant - all of which were granted to me. I`ve supplied them with all the evidence they requested from me and have been updating them over the academic year 2009/10 of any changes.

 

Come academic year 2010/11 and in September they asked me to supply them with confirmatory evidence of income and expenditure so yet again I sent them documents confirming that - nothing in relation to our income has changed, but the child care costs have gone down slightly from April 2010, of which they were notified a month ahead (March 2010).

 

Now here`s the ridiculous part:

I`ve sent them the documents on Sept 11 2010. Two months later, while the documents were in their possession, I received another letter requesting THE SAME INFORMATION to which I replied by telephoning their offices on 12 November 2010. During the telephone conversation I was assured that they had the above documents in possession and that the only document I needed to supply was something called `building contents insurance`. I found this document in the file, photocopied it and sent the photocopy on the same day.

A couple of weeks later I received back the documents I have sent to them on 11 September 2010 and a few days later I received yet another letter requesting the same information that the previous two letters have asked for, i.e. the 3rd letter I received asked for documents that they have just sent back to me! I was like: am I hallucinating?

 

They accused me of not supplying the evidence and said that my grants are going to be removed and that I have an overpayment of £3300 t (note thaat this stage they claimed the overpayment to be due to the fact that I have not supplied the documents).

 

I reacted by sending them a complaint`s letter on 7 Dec 2010 - which wasn`t even treated as a complaints letter. I think legally there is a limited amount of time that they should reply to one. Well, I only just got the reply today. The reply states that I still owe £3300 for academic year 2009/11 as my final income and expenditure has been assessed.

 

I filled in an appeals form and I`m going to send it out on Monday.

 

To sum up:

1. they wrongly assessed my grants claim for academic year 2009/10 despite the fact that I`ve supplied them with all the information they asked for

2. they are trying to recover the money from me saying that I have been overpaid - even though their first reason for overpayment was that I did not supply the documents (which in fact I did supply)

3. oh, my child care grant for 2010/11 hasn`t even been assessed yet - I`ve sent the form 6 months ago O_o

 

I`m so pi$$ed off and I`m willing to co-operate with all the other `victims` out there cuz this is getting ridiculous. There are too many people being forced into financial difficulties due to the incompetence of a government institution. Hopefully we can all come together and make some noise.

 

I`m not even going into the detail of how much stress this has caused me. The stressed itself caused some physical problems as well - like feeling of tightness in my throat. Not nice :/

[babybear39]

I've got a story to beat the lot. In January of last year I contracted an unusual series of life threatening illnesses. My daughter and ex hubby were sorting my finances due to the fact that I was in a coma. I was sent at least three letters and numerous phone calls even though, when my daughter answered one she said I was recovering from a coma and in a high dependancy ward as I was still clinically very ill.

 

They continued with their bombardment regarding overpayement (which my daughter used to pay bills).

 

I still have them harassing me by letter and phone.

 

Last time they called I said 'take me to court and let a judge decide the matter'.

 

I shall look foward to facing them from a wheelchair and ask the judge how in the hell they can harass my daughter and me over their error!!!

[Slav]

Student Finance is absolute joke and not a government body.

I can not imagine how a company that was awarded with such an important mission to play and responsibility to carry can be managed like... I don't know... my local corner shop with Bulgarian shopkeepers is probably managed better then this.

And also there was this ex-BP boss who was supposed to investigate the workings of SFE and advice government on its restructuring, the same guy who actually proposed an increased tuition fee and the rest of the changes to T+C's of SFE... that was ALL that he had to say? I mean I have read his report to the government. That was basically all he was saying - let's charge more and hope this scheme will last for little longer that is to be. What a joke!

Me personally, I was lucky enough not to have these type of troubles with SFE but a lot of my friends did and I know exactly what people mean when posting in this thread.

I say enough is enough. Why like every other financial institution it is not regulated by... well.. there is nobody I guess who can regulate such a mess. And I mean this is the government body as well as financial institution that young people are getting seriously to know on their first steps to adult life. What kind of message does it send them about standards of public sector and what kind of behaviour does it stimulates towards financial services?

No wonder we are in a financial mess we are. It doesn't educate them it tells them screw the system twice as bad as the system tried (and did) to screw them.

This system has to change. I wonder what it would take to actually force a complete restructure of this organisation? I mean lets close all the bloody call centres they have and get rid of the management and let's hire some graduates to work this company!!! First of all, they more then anybody else understand the problems of it (they have experienced those themselves) and this will reduce some of the youth unemployment. How good is that?!

[jp1983]

Hi,

 

Interested to know how you are all getting on as I think I am about to go down this very path thanks to student finance england. My situation is that I left a good job in financial services to follow my dream of becoming a doctor, so I spent a lot of effort and time planning (as a mature student) to ensure I could afford to go to university and for it not to affect my fiancee too much. I made this decision based on lots of discussion with student finance, and was led to believe that apart from the last year, when support is reduced, that I would get my tuition fees paid in full by the standard loan, and that I'd also get a maintenance loan, some of which would be replaced by a grant so that it didnt have to be paid back at the end.

 

I have now completed the foudation year and will be moving into year 2 of 6 in September. I applied again for finance for the year online and it told me i'd get similar to last year, fine. Then I get the official finance offer letter saying i'll only get a maintenance loan, and zero tuition fees. I call up student finance thinking it's a mistake and am firstly told that I wont get any this year, but I would get full support again for the final four years (as i did a 3 year degree when I was young). Then I call up the university to talk to them as I'm worried about how to get through next year financially. I then call SFE later and a different person tells me that I wont get tuition fees paid at all for the rest of my course, and that they shouldn't have been paid to me last year. He then tells me the uni sent the fees back to SFE, which the university say is not true and they have been paid.

 

I am currently waiting to talk to someone at the university next week about this and what help they can give me, to work out if there's any way I can afford to finish the next five years, but I seriously doubt that I will be able to find the £3000+ tuition fees each year (even with my two jobs), meaning I will have to give up studying medicine and have wasted almost two years of my life and left a good job which I wont be able to get back. So it looks like I will be writing a complaint and writing to my MP as well just like in this thread!!!

 

What these people seem to fail to grasp is that many of us make our decision about whether to enter into education based on what finance they say we'll get, so we rely on this being correct. Yet they seem to treat it like it's just something that happens alongside the study and is not important. If I had been told I would be getting what I am supposedly being offered at the start I never would have left my job and gone to university in the first place. To say that I am upset is an understatement.

 

Appreciate any updates on your situations / advice / comments etc and will endeavour to post with more news in case it helps anyone else.

 

J

[2ltr16valve]

Hi,

 

Interested to know how you are all getting on as I think I am about to go down this very path thanks to student finance england. My situation is that I left a good job in financial services to follow my dream of becoming a doctor, so I spent a lot of effort and time planning (as a mature student) to ensure I could afford to go to university and for it not to affect my fiancee too much. I made this decision based on lots of discussion with student finance, and was led to believe that apart from the last year, when support is reduced, that I would get my tuition fees paid in full by the standard loan, and that I'd also get a maintenance loan, some of which would be replaced by a grant so that it didnt have to be paid back at the end.

 

I have now completed the foudation year and will be moving into year 2 of 6 in September. I applied again for finance for the year online and it told me i'd get similar to last year, fine. Then I get the official finance offer letter saying i'll only get a maintenance loan, and zero tuition fees. I call up student finance thinking it's a mistake and am firstly told that I wont get any this year, but I would get full support again for the final four years (as i did a 3 year degree when I was young). Then I call up the university to talk to them as I'm worried about how to get through next year financially. I then call SFE later and a different person tells me that I wont get tuition fees paid at all for the rest of my course, and that they shouldn't have been paid to me last year. He then tells me the uni sent the fees back to SFE, which the university say is not true and they have been paid.

 

I am currently waiting to talk to someone at the university next week about this and what help they can give me, to work out if there's any way I can afford to finish the next five years, but I seriously doubt that I will be able to find the £3000+ tuition fees each year (even with my two jobs), meaning I will have to give up studying medicine and have wasted almost two years of my life and left a good job which I wont be able to get back. So it looks like I will be writing a complaint and writing to my MP as well just like in this thread!!!

 

What these people seem to fail to grasp is that many of us make our decision about whether to enter into education based on what finance they say we'll get, so we rely on this being correct. Yet they seem to treat it like it's just something that happens alongside the study and is not important. If I had been told I would be getting what I am supposedly being offered at the start I never would have left my job and gone to university in the first place. To say that I am upset is an understatement.

 

Appreciate any updates on your situations / advice / comments etc and will endeavour to post with more news in case it helps anyone else.

 

J

 

 

Hi,

 

Sadly sounds very familiar !! the sheer incompetence is unbelievable until you deal with these dumb back ends !!

 

Sadly also, no I have not got very far My local MP has written to the Sec of state for business (who is ultimately responsible for SFE) who basically said, go away you signed the declaration saying "I agree to repay any overpayment how so ever caused" .... which to me is a "we can do what we like with no accountability card"... !!

 

The only option is to take him, the sec of state to court.... which I can not find any definitive info on how to do, or if he is summondsable !! This needs to STOP !

[2ltr16valve]

Well this is still ongoing !!

 

I have recently thought about going back into university to gain a career as a Paramedic, which would also allow me to go back into work slowly as study is over 3 years with the first year university based.

Ive applied for funding, and been awarded as much as they can apparently loan me - but they have taken out a large proportion of my student support grant of £3387, they have taken £1950ish to cover some of the overpayment !! which will leave me short ..... with a family to support and baby on the way there is no way I can afford this. My MP has again written to the SLC and the reply is a "not our problem, student signed declaration ..... hes responsible....there is no scope to write off legitimate debts"

 

I could scan the letter up if needed.

 

I have really got to take this somewhere now, I do not think I can take it to the LGO now due to the time elapsed between 2009. I do not know if court action would be SB'd either at 6 years, considering these debts never get SB's to me would this work in reverse ?

I strongly believe the Declaration on the form I signed is an unfair term but do not know what regs this would fall under ??? If a bank had this term it would be torn apart !

Please help guys there are many students in my situation as the government hides behind the declaration.

[2ltr16valve]

Well well well

 

This is still ongoing and today I've yet again received the recovery phone calls with threats !

 

How do I stop this for gods sake !!! I've written to the sec of state. My Mp has also. Complained to slc and to the top who say it's down to sec of state, they say down to slc. No one will take responsibility!!!

 

I don't want the whole loan written off. I owe that yes. What I dispute I am liable for is the grant overpayment .... the lea caused that by incompetent staff and have admitted it.

[BazzaS]

Well well well

 

This is still ongoing and today I've yet again received the recovery phone calls with threats !

 

How do I stop this for gods sake !!! I've written to the sec of state. My Mp has also. Complained to slc and to the top who say it's down to sec of state, they say down to slc. No one will take responsibility!!!

 

I don't want the whole loan written off. I owe that yes. What I dispute I am liable for is the grant overpayment .... the lea caused that by incompetent staff and have admitted it.

 

It is a high risk strategy, but consider:

"I'm trying to see who is responsible for what, but each side blames the other.

I don't know how much I owe, and how much is owed by others.

I can't work it out, and need it clarifying before paying what I owe (and I do intend to pay what I owe, but only what I owe).

 

I can't afford to take this to court, so please issue proceedings against me.

I can then add the secretary of state as a co-defendant, (or you can do so from the outset!) and the court can decide who owes what, clarifying if the SLA or LEA carry the blame, and I'll be left knowing how much I owe.

 

Ohh, and I'll add in my counter-claim for loss of university continuation: hopefully I'll get a fee exemption for that application ......

 

I understand there is a risk I may end up with a judgment against me for some money, but at least I'll finally have it cleared up how much I actually owe (if anything) once all the claims are adjudicated. I'm hopeful it will be sufficiently low that I can then arrange to pay it (once the sum (is decided), so I'm not worried it'll end up on the register of CCJs.

 

Thank you for your assistance in finally bringing this matter to a conclusion : I'm hesitant to waste the court's time with this, but this has been going on over 7 years without resolution, so I'm hopeful the court will see I've tried alternative ways to seek a resolution without success."

 

They may

a) issue the claim, and at least then it may determine who owes what to whom, or

b) they may run for the hills, deciding it is too high risk .....

[2ltr16valve]

It is a high risk strategy, but consider:

"I'm trying to see who is responsible for what, but each side blames the other.

I don't know how much I owe, and how much is owed by others.

I can't work it out, and need it clarifying before paying what I owe (and I do intend to pay what I owe, but only what I owe).

 

I can't afford to take this to court, so please issue proceedings against me.

I can then add the secretary of state as a co-defendant, (or you can do so from the outset!) and the court can decide who owes what, clarifying if the SLA or LEA carry the blame, and I'll be left knowing how much I owe.

 

Ohh, and I'll add in my counter-claim for loss of university continuation: hopefully I'll get a fee exemption for that application ......

 

I understand there is a risk I may end up with a judgment against me for some money, but at least I'll finally have it cleared up how much I actually owe (if anything) once all the claims are adjudicated. I'm hopeful it will be sufficiently low that I can then arrange to pay it (once the sum (is decided), so I'm not worried it'll end up on the register of CCJs.

 

Thank you for your assistance in finally bringing this matter to a conclusion : I'm hesitant to waste the court's time with this, but this has been going on over 7 years without resolution, so I'm hopeful the court will see I've tried alternative ways to seek a resolution without success."

 

They may

a) issue the claim, and at least then it may determine who owes what to whom, or

b) they may run for the hills, deciding it is too high risk .....

 

I don't think there's much point sending to the slc muppets tbh, they just seem to reply with standard templates. ?

 

Maybe I should send to the sec of state responsible for the slc and slc ?

[Andyorch]

Thread moved to the appropriate forum...not sure why it was Financial Legal Issues for so long.

 

Andy

[2ltr16valve]

Thread moved to the appropriate forum...not sure why it was Financial Legal Issues for so long.

 

Andy

 

Thank you. What heading forum is it under now please ? I'm on my phone so don't know ?

[Andyorch]

StudentsStudent loans/SLC

[2ltr16valve]

StudentsStudent loans/SLC

 

 

Ah okay. Deffo better fitting

[2ltr16valve]

Letters sent to my local MP, Sec of state for BIS and Sec of state for universities.

 

See if that makes any difference, ive invited them to take me to court as above ..... but prob be fobbed off again.