Webby v Barclaycard **WON with CCI and Older Charges**

[slick132]

The 6 year rule, or Statute of Limitations, normally stops you claiming beyond 6 years. In your case, you CAN claim back further using Section 32(1)©, Limitation Act 1980.

 

This has no bearing on what interest you claim.

 

As The Shadow says, compound int't is more complicated than mutiplying the monthly rate by 12.

 

Couple of useful example cases -

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/138906-mackerel-barclaycard-8.html#post2140711

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/barclaycard/163825-morgan-stanley-barclaycard-delighted-3.html#post1819499

 

They'll not repay voluntarily and you'll have to file a claim, d/w the AQ and fee, pay the hearing fees, etc. Then BC will take you seriously and perhaps negotiate just before the final hearing.

 

Edited January 17, 2012 by slick132
s32 1 c added

[WebMaster]

This is driving me mad. Finally got the 'complex credit card charges calc' to work (OpenOffice doesn't seem to like it, had to use Excel), but spent most of the morning getting myself confused.

 

If I want to claim contractual interest, is there anything to stop me calculating it as I would for statutory interest, but just using 16% (or whatever it turns out to be) rather than 8%? I realise I'd be losing out on reclaiming interest they charged me on the charges; but for my own sanity, I'd probably be happy with that.

[slick132]

Hi Webby,

 

If you use the cash APR interest rate (as shown on your statements) on this spready, you should have somewhere to start from. http://www.shweb.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/interestcalcs.xls

 

Or have you used this already.

 

Alternatively, use this to calc'te the compound int't on each charge - Compound interest calculator

 

[WebMaster]

Cheers - that's added almost 2k on to my claim of 450 pounds. Is there a justification for adding interest at the cash APR rate (which is 27.9% for me) as oppose to the purchase APR rate?

[slick132]

Justification is that BC have not only had your money but they've lent it out and profited from it.

 

[WebMaster]

I actually sent them an LBA back in November, but hadn't followed it through (bad, I know). They'd done the usual business of putting it through their internal complaints procedure, and with the outcome of the test case, I'd decided just to exhaust that first.

 

Obviously I was expecting the outcome of the complaint to be "you're not having your money back", so was surprised to receive a letter yesterday morning, offering a partial settlement.

 

 

"We believe our charges are fair and trasparent .... etc etc ... At the

present time, we are only legally obligated to refund default charges

covering the last 6 years, going back to March 2004. Your refund amount

has been amended.

 

However, as a gesture of goodwill and without any admission of liability

Barclaycard are prepared to credit you with 160 GBP and 60.81 GBP

statutory interest at 8% in full and final settlement of your claim ...

These refunds will be reflected on your next statement."

 

Naturally the LBA asking for a refund of charges didn't add on 8%, although it warned that I'd be adding this on if it got to court. I'm not sure what to make of this.

 

Firstly, the claim that they are only obliged to refund charges from the past 6 years.

 

Secondly, their apparent generosity. If they do genuinely believe they only need to refund the 6 years, they are effectively refunding all charges, and giving me 8% interest. I really didn't expect them to offer interest, and I half expected them to only offer to refund the difference in charges (between the 15 or 20 pound that I was charged, and the 12 pound deemed fair by the OFT). This being BC, I'm surprised they didn't say 'no' until a week before the court case, then settle

 

 

 

 

 

[slick132]

Hi Webby,

 

Was this offer in response to a recent letter from you or was your last letter sent in November.

 

Naturally the LBA asking for a refund of charges didn't add on 8%, although it warned that I'd be adding this on if it got to court. I'm not sure what to make of this.

The Prelim Claim letter and LBA should both have asked for repayment of charges, and of interest, at their contractual rate.

 

Did this not happen.

 

They're bluffing about the 6 years limit but, if you didn't get the claim started properly, this should enable you to refuse their offer and then carry on claiming contractual int't.

[Ayr]

I don't know if this is help to anyone - but to calculate compound interest you can do it like this...

 

Simple interest over a year at 2% per month would be 24%

 

but for compound you are multiplying by 1.02 each time (1 + interest/100)

 

so this means the interest over a year would be 1.02^12 = 1.268 which is the amount you would multiply by to get the annual interest and capital total -

 

so 26.8% APR

[middenmess]

Probably better to use something like this....

 

Compound interest calculator!!!

[WebMaster]

Interesting letter from BC this morning (we're at the AQ stage now), offering a settlement figure of .... *drumroll* ... £8.90. Falls a little bit short of the 2.5K I was claiming.

 

It's not actually as pathetic as it sounds - they'd already given me £220 back (even though I said I didn't want it). Still, I won't be accepting it

[leilani]

Hi Webby I am going through a similar thing with BC. I have also received monies from them on both MC and BC accounts (based on 6 years only), but I accepted with intent to pursue the remainder of the other 4 years (which is where the bulk is). I am just now trying to fill in N1 Claim form and was wondering if you knew how to fill these things in, as you made a claim earlier via the courts (post 7) I would really like some advice, as I am not very good with legal wording. Do you have the full address by any chance and would you be able to give me advice on how to fill the brief description and particulars of claim? Would really appreciate it : )

[middenmess]

That offer just about sums up BC's attitude to their customers.

[slick132]

Leilani's post has been answered on her own thread.

 

Sorry to see you won't be retiring on the BC payout just yet Webby !!

 

8-)

[WebMaster]

The last few days have been pretty stressful. I was holding out as long as I could on the court bundle, hoping BC would settle and save me the work. But my bundle needed to be in by the 13th, so I couldn't wait much longer.

 

It was my first time doing a bundle, so a bit of a learning curve, and I had the usual deal of running out of ink, printer paper etc; but by lunchtime I had the bundles ready and sent off.

 

An hour later the settlement letter from BC arrived (great timing). Apparently their charges are fair, but they've decided to offer settlement in full anyway (as you do): 2,665.14.

 

What makes this case interesting, I think, is that I was claiming restitutionary damages, using their cash advance interest rate of 27.9% as an initial figure for estimating the RD. If the case had gone to court, I doubted very much that the judge would have awarded RD at 27.9% (BF suggested around 15% might have been more realistic) - it was just a starting point. The charges themselves only amounted to 435 pounds - the rest was interest.

 

If it had been just 8% SI, I'd have been much more confident of them settling out of court; but for them not to even defend 2k of interest .... I wonder (well, others have wondered on my behalf, and I'm now passing these wonderings off as my own) if it really was a case that it wasn't worth the cost for them to defend, or if they were worried that a judge might force them to reveal details of how much money they'd made off my charges (in order to assess the level of RD to award).

 

Anyway, big thanks to slick and BF. Without them, I wouldn't have got this far.

 

Wasted costs next? .....

[BankFodder]

Fantastic news.

 

Well done. It shows that it is worth fighting your corner

[the_shadow]

OOo well done Webby

 

S.

[middenmess]

Great result--very pleased for you:-D

[slick132]

Hi Webby and big CONGRATULATIONS !!

 

Thread title changed to reflect your win.

 

[slick132]

Excellent news but a little surprising in a couple of ways:-

 

1. They didn't wait to see if you filed and served your court bundle.

 

2. They didn't argue against the basis on which you calculated your compound interest in restitution.

 

3. Nor did they argue against the inclusion of older charges (6 years +) in your SOC.

 

If the case had gone to court, I doubted very much that the judge would have awarded RD at 27.9% (BF suggested around 15% might have been more realistic) - it was just a starting point.

I have to disagree here - there's every chance a judge would have awarded the compound interest at the contractual rate.

 

But the way BC tend to work is they wait and see if you jump through all the necessary hoops to get to the final court hearing. Once that date is set, they tend to be amenable to negotiation.

 

In any event, this is a great result and good encouragement to others considering claiming interest in restitution.

 

8-)

[noomill060]

Fantastic- got there in the end.

 

Damages in restitution at the contractual rate is the way to go.

 

I claim judicial interest at the contractual rate as well.

 

(HINT- Barclays dont bat an eye lid at this, either)

[Ell-enn]

Excellent news! well done, I'm delighted for you.

[steven4064]

Well done Webby. IMHO, credit card charges are always worg going after as they are much more clearly contract penalties

[middenmess]

Well done Webby. IMHO, credit card charges are always worg going after as they are much more clearly contract penalties

 

99.9% of everyone in the civilised world agrees with you--apart from the judges in the Brandon case..

 

As to the default charges being penalties, the judge at first instance held that lenders do suffer loss when borrowers fail to make payment on time or go over the agreed limit and that default puts pressure on cash flow and reserves. He held that the charges applied here were a reasonable pre-estimate of loss and therefore recoverable. This was upheld on appeal.

 

[citizenB]

Excellent news Webby

[vjohn82]

Fantastic result... perseverance has shone through here... well done!