anyone actually written off their credit card debt in full

[geoff1248]

So just to clarify something, no-one here is disputing that they actually do indeed owe the credit card companies the money but you have found a technicality which you hope will enable you to avoid paying off the debt.

Now I don't know how credit card companies work but who actually suffers the loss, the credit card companies or the businesses that you bought the good from?

[noomill060]

The credit card companies.

[fergal71]

it infuriates me when people get on high horse, stating that if you have used money then you should pay it back.... I think everyone on here would agree with this....

 

but and it is a big but!

 

when we make a mistake they come down on us like a ton of bricks, increased interest, penalty charges , info on credit file....

 

now when they break the law by not making agreements lawful, what can we do..????? charge them penalties,,, no, reduce monthly payments ,,,, no, put markers on their credit files,,,, no...

 

Their is no recourse for the consumer other than a long and costly court case....

 

Many companies work on this same principle that it is difficult for average joe to do anything to harm these large companies....

 

welcome finance staff used to write similar things on these forums... loook where they are??? ;-) I bet the first person at the branch of marc gander when he asked for a refund of his charges on that fateful day no longer works there...

 

look what has come from somebody standing up and challenging these large institutions.... maybe it is time we grew some bollocks and stood up for what is right.... like the french... I am sick and tired of spending my days looking into legalities of something or other due to companies not fullfilling their promises..and abiding by law..

 

why should these people get away with breaching the law if we cant get away with missing a payment or being late .... they deserve everything they get and I do not think it will end here.... credit reference agencies break the law by their shere existence, government ministers claiming expenses they are not entitled to and not going to jail,,,, would they allow me to pay back benefits that I had unlawfully claimed or would they throw me in jail " sorry judge fair cop I will pay it back and carry on like nothing has happened" cheers ... I dont think so... when are we going to get united and do something. look around, what has happened to our great country that we all appear so proud of.... it is in a right mess....to say the least and getting worse not better... where do you go to complain.... MP's ,only in it for themselves, lords selling favours, courts overbooked and judges often not versed with all aspects of the law.... where does it end who can help?????

 

we need many many marc ganders... uk26 is fighting CRA's, we should all support these mavericks as they have reshaped democracy for the many... get on board and support... lets get back to basics , manufacturing etc... lets not bail out banks with billions that dont even exist in paper form.... lets do what we can to push these villains over the edge... whilst they sit in mansions never having to work again for the rest of their families lives we suffer and their actions push our families into a spiral of deprivation and dispear....

 

please dont say if you have spent it then pay it back.... I spent £1000 buying furniture on a credit card and with charges and interest I will end up paying approx £5000 back to this **** so once my £1000 is paid back am I ok to take them to court for their breaches will I ever see my extra £4000 ,,, I doubt it.. they have been repaid and some...

 

rant over

[geoff1248]

"it infuriates me when people get on high horse, stating that if you have used money then you should pay it back.... I think everyone on here would agree with this...."

 

I don't think for one minute that everyone here agrees with your statement. Quite frankly I think that most right minded people think that if you have used (borrowed) money then you should pay it back. It could well be my money that you have borrowed and I want it back.

So you have the moral "screw unto others as you yourself have been screwed".

Just remember that no one forced you to use your credit cards.

[bedlington83]

I for one absolutely agree with fergal as do you; that borrowed money should be paid back. I suggest that you read the post more carefully and in its entirety before you try to demonstrate the moral supremacy that you seem to believe you have.

 

Having said that it might have been clearer if fergal had written "I think everyone on here would agree that it should"

[geoff1248]

Totally agree with you bedlington, my moral dial has now been turned down and I am sitting on the naughty stair.........

[flossiebear]

Hi thank you all for fantastic postings,l have dedt of 16k on two cards the original agreements go back over 10 years. what do you think of my chances ?

[flossiebear]

Thank you all for the info , l have 16k on two cards the original agreements go back over ten years. What do you think of my chances?

[desigaand]

there is good chance that your debt is unenforceable.just write to the credit card companies,requesting credit agreement you signed,chances are they wont have one,they will try fobbing you off with aplication form you signed.ensist on seeing credit agreement signed by you.

then refuse to pay them,then tell them if they dont stop asking for payment you will give case to a solicitor who will challenge them and they will have to pay all solicitors fees.that should sort them out.

[mooiismum]

I agree with paying back debt but not paying extortionate interest ect. IMO the Government should stop excessive interest rates being charged. If the base rate on savings is so low then there ought to be a limit on the rate charged by lenders. Didn't the Government slap Loan Sharks? This is what most lenders are!

 

MM

[desigaand]

Thank you all for the info , l have 16k on two cards the original agreements go back over ten years. What do you think of my chances?

 

you have a really good chance of challenging them.

request signed copy of agreement,chances are they wont have it.so they cant enforce.

one of my card issuers has admitted they dont have agreement.

[bigmac266]

Hi all, great posts.

 

I am at a bit of a dead end with all my "challenges" to credit card companies. I need some guidance please.

 

I have sent cca requests to the following:

 

For myself -

Capital One

Santander (Kwik fit)

 

For my wife -

HSBC

MBNA (virgin)

 

For my dad -

Capital one

Natwest

MBNA

Mint

 

All have basically been unable to produce agreements in line with CCA. They have all claimed to have fulfilled their obligation under the act by sending either blank aagreements with seperate terms or bad copies of app forms. HSBC have admitted they have no agreement (!) I have followed up all unsatisfactory responses with requests under the civil procedure rules, not cca, for copy of original signed agreement.

 

The problem is this, they are all jsut ignoring me!! what do i do now I feel I am at the limit of letter sending as it has no effect. Can anyone tell me I need to do now? Do is end more letters threatening court, do I actually make applications to court?

 

I hope someone can help as this has taken so much of my time and has been hard work researching the act etc, I really really want to see this through and win. Hopefully be able to help others.

[exasperated]

Hi Bigmac

Have you got that in writing that they do not have a CCA that could be useful?

If you have or have not you would be advised to send whoever owns the account an account in dispute letter. This basically will remove any legal right they have to pursue you, contact you or collect any monies owed.

Here is a sample which I use to send to Debt collectors, have a look and if your account is still with the Original crditor then edit to suit.

Hope its helpful

exasp

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE.

If it is your view that you are not the creditor, s.175 of the CCA 1974 applies in the case of a simple assignment, and places a duty upon you to pass this request to the creditor. In the case of an absolute assignment, you are a creditor as defined by s.189. If you contend that you purchased the rights but not the duties of any agreement, you are reminded that s.189 of the Act is clear that an assignment is of both rights and duties.

The lack of a valid and enforceable credit agreement is a very clear dispute and therefore the following applies:

• You must not demand any payment on this account, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you.

• You must not add any further interest or charges to this account

• You must not pass this account to any third party.

• You must not issue a default notice on this account

• You must not register any information in respect of this account with any of the credit reference agencies. To register information with the credit reference agencies, or to issue a default notice, would also be in breach of Section 13.6 of The Banking Code, which stipulates that you can only register such information if the amount owed is not in dispute. I note that you are a subscriber to this Code

I would like to draw your attention to the attached copy of the response from ............... who clearly state that no account can be traced from the correct 16 digit account number I supplied to them and after you yourselves have completed your final checks and other searches you failed to provide me with a copy of a valid contract binding both parties as required to do so under regulated agreements and contract law.

 

 

In view of the above, I am very confident that you will agree with me when I say that having no agreement does not meet the legal requirements and thus would be unenforceable if you wished to be pursue this matter further in a Court of Law.

When the permitted time has expired for you to produce an enforceable agreement whilst in dispute I will cease to make payments to you and consider the account closed.

[desigaand]

Hi all, great posts.

 

I am at a bit of a dead end with all my "challenges" to credit card companies. I need some guidance please.

 

I have sent cca requests to the following:

 

For myself -

Capital One

Santander (Kwik fit)

 

For my wife -

HSBC

MBNA (virgin)

 

For my dad -

Capital one

Natwest

MBNA

Mint

 

All have basically been unable to produce agreements in line with CCA. They have all claimed to have fulfilled their obligation under the act by sending either blank aagreements with seperate terms or bad copies of app forms. HSBC have admitted they have no agreement (!) I have followed up all unsatisfactory responses with requests under the civil procedure rules, not cca, for copy of original signed agreement.

 

The problem is this, they are all jsut ignoring me!! what do i do now I feel I am at the limit of letter sending as it has no effect. Can anyone tell me I need to do now? Do is end more letters threatening court, do I actually make applications to court?

 

I hope someone can help as this has taken so much of my time and has been hard work researching the act etc, I really really want to see this through and win. Hopefully be able to help others.

 

hi,they are hoping you will pay,if they cant produce documentation required they cant force you to pay,just tell them straight,i wont pay so dont waste your time and mine,if they want to take you to court ,tell them they are most welcome.

[dx100uk]

posts which keep bolstering the 'myth' that an unenforcable cca = the debt is written off are not helpful to anyone.

 

CAG is not here to assist people in avoiding paying their just dues, it is about getting even with these co's that charge unfair sums towards consumers.

 

IMHO this thread needs closing.

 

dx

Edited October 28, 2009 by dx100uk

[desigaand]

posts which keep bolstering the 'myth' that an unenforcable cca = the debt is written off are not helpful to anyone.

 

CAG is not here to assist people in avoiding paying there just dues, it is about getting even with these co's that charge unfair sums towards consumers.

 

IMHO this thread needs closing.

 

dx

 

i agree cag is not here to help people avoid their just dues.

but helping people realise where they stand,sharing of information is what cags about.

the big institutions are at an advantage ,they have superior knowledge,good solicitors and barristers who will twist the facts and use the law to their utmost advantage.

i merely informed a user that if there is no agreement the bank cant enforce the debt.if i am giving false information and assisting people in an illegal way please do let me know.

if you dispute the fact that a credit card firm cant enforce without an agreement,i would like to hear from you on what grounds you dispute my statement.

[mooiismum]

i agree cag is not here to help people avoid their just dues.

but helping people realise where they stand,sharing of information is what cags about.

the big institutions are at an advantage ,they have superior knowledge,good solicitors and barristers who will twist the facts and use the law to their utmost advantage.

i merely informed a user that if there is no agreement the bank cant enforce the debt.if i am giving false information and assisting people in an illegal way please do let me know.

if you dispute the fact that a credit card firm cant enforce without an agreement,i would like to hear from you on what grounds you dispute my statement.

 

Let's not forget that on occassion creditors and dca's are flagerently disregarding rules and regs set by legal precident and the oft guidelines and without CAG there would be no support of advice to guide people. If people ask questions then it is only polite to answer.

 

MM

[lexis200]

i agree cag is not here to help people avoid their just dues.

but helping people realise where they stand,sharing of information is what cags about.

the big institutions are at an advantage ,they have superior knowledge,good solicitors and barristers who will twist the facts and use the law to their utmost advantage.

i merely informed a user that if there is no agreement the bank cant enforce the debt.if i am giving false information and assisting people in an illegal way please do let me know.

if you dispute the fact that a credit card firm cant enforce without an agreement,i would like to hear from you on what grounds you dispute my statement.

 

Ok, I would guess the point dx was trying to make about this aspect of what you said is that whilst it may be unenforceable, and whilst they are legally not allowed to take you to court to enforce this will not necessarily stop them. In addition to that, although they should not charge you interest/charges, chase you for the money, harass you etc, they will. All of this stuff in in OFT guidelines, not legislation. They don't take notice of laws, so why should they give two hoots about guidelines?

 

Not being able to enforce a debt also does not mean it's written off. It means unless you have it declared unenforceable (at which point it still won't be written off, but the creditor has to stop chasing you) you will very likely be chased for it, including but not limited to all the bits bandied around that they 'must not' do whilst an account is in dispute. The debt will sit for 6 years until it's statute barred (assuming you don't contact them) as they should not be taking you to court, and in that time your credit rating will be crucified. The best option really is to try and use an unenforceable agreement as a bargaining chip for a very good full and final offer.

 

Some people have been lucky, they write one or two letters and the creditor folds. This is not, and never will be the norm - it can't possibly be. If banks were seen to give in easily to this sort of thing, everyone would be doing it and they would collapse. They have to posture and make life as difficult as possible. For instance, BOS have two of OH's accounts. Both have nada in the way of agreements (illegible, no pt's etc etc), one has defaulted (wrongly) twice, and terminated (wrongly) twice. This has been ongoing since June 08, and they are still stating black is white.

 

Personally, I came on here to try and get help with getting a settlement offer together for my creditors. However, the moment I even queried getting a CCA they desended on me and my moral ideas kind of went out the window after the umpteenth threatening phonecall was received, with (impotent) 'intended court action' threats hot on their heels. Even after this I was still thinking of it as 'getting out of my debt', until a member suggested I tally all spending, payments, interest, charges etc and see what I was left with.

 

On almost all cards my spending was dwarfed by my repayments, and any balance left on the cards was interest (which technically should not have been charged with no contract to specify the terms) and charges (of which I didn't have many as I kept my accounts in reasonable order until hitting a financial hell-hole).

 

If you are really in debt that you can not see your way out of, have no hope of clearing it are just at the end of your tether, then getting threats about it is just a tad too much.

 

I now look at it that these companies have known and used the CCA1974 for 30+ years; in that time, surely it is feasable that they could have got the format for agreements correct and legal? They have teams of intelligent and well versed solicitors who can write these things up, and quite frankly there are links on here to official sites that show exactly what needs to be written into a credit agreement - I could have a watertight one done in a few hours. They have been greedy and have not spent the time getting their ducks in a row, and they can not then gripe that people they hound and torment are using their inadequacies against them.

 

However, if you have the money to pay a debt and this is simply an excercise in getting out of it (there aren't many on here with this view, but there are some), then it's a bit of a cr*p idea in all honesty.

 

Your rating will be shot, you will be harassed constantly, you won't get decent help on here as not wanting to pay isn't exactly a reason for not paying, and you may well end up in front of a judge who will not be best pleased with your reasons. In short, if you can pay them, do pay them!

 

I don't think this thread is the best place for newcomers to start looking for info really - there's far too much emphasis placed on what the banks can't and shouldn't do, as opposed to the reality of what they will do. It's boring and slightly depressing, but if you're going to advise someone to take this course of action they should be made well aware of the many pitfalls that run parallel with it. Ask questions on some of the larger threads where the very knowledgeable members can easily be found (any of the site team, Banker Rhymes With, SurfaceAgentx20 - it's not hard to spot the respected views) and decide from there.

[flossiebear]

Ok, I would guess the point dx was trying to make about this aspect of what you said is that whilst it may be unenforceable, and whilst they are legally not allowed to take you to court to enforce this will not necessarily stop them. In addition to that, although they should not charge you interest/charges, chase you for the money, harass you etc, they will. All of this stuff in in OFT guidelines, not legislation. They don't take notice of laws, so why should they give two hoots about guidelines?

 

Not being able to enforce a debt also does not mean it's written off. It means unless you have it declared unenforceable (at which point it still won't be written off, but the creditor has to stop chasing you) you will very likely be chased for it, including but not limited to all the bits bandied around that they 'must not' do whilst an account is in dispute. The debt will sit for 6 years until it's statute barred (assuming you don't contact them) as they should not be taking you to court, and in that time your credit rating will be crucified. The best option really is to try and use an unenforceable agreement as a bargaining chip for a very good full and final offer.

 

Some people have been lucky, they write one or two letters and the creditor folds. This is not, and never will be the norm - it can't possibly be. If banks were seen to give in easily to this sort of thing, everyone would be doing it and they would collapse. They have to posture and make life as difficult as possible. For instance, BOS have two of OH's accounts. Both have nada in the way of agreements (illegible, no pt's etc etc), one has defaulted (wrongly) twice, and terminated (wrongly) twice. This has been ongoing since June 08, and they are still stating black is white.

 

Personally, I came on here to try and get help with getting a settlement offer together for my creditors. However, the moment I even queried getting a CCA they desended on me and my moral ideas kind of went out the window after the umpteenth threatening phonecall was received, with (impotent) 'intended court action' threats hot on their heels. Even after this I was still thinking of it as 'getting out of my debt', until a member suggested I tally all spending, payments, interest, charges etc and see what I was left with.

 

On almost all cards my spending was dwarfed by my repayments, and any balance left on the cards was interest (which technically should not have been charged with no contract to specify the terms) and charges (of which I didn't have many as I kept my accounts in reasonable order until hitting a financial hell-hole).

 

If you are really in debt that you can not see your way out of, have no hope of clearing it are just at the end of your tether, then getting threats about it is just a tad too much.

 

I now look at it that these companies have known and used the CCA1974 for 30+ years; in that time, surely it is feasable that they could have got the format for agreements correct and legal? They have teams of intelligent and well versed solicitors who can write these things up, and quite frankly there are links on here to official sites that show exactly what needs to be written into a credit agreement - I could have a watertight one done in a few hours. They have been greedy and have not spent the time getting their ducks in a row, and they can not then gripe that people they hound and torment are using their inadequacies against them.

 

However, if you have the money to pay a debt and this is simply an excercise in getting out of it (there aren't many on here with this view, but there are some), then it's a bit of a cr*p idea in all honesty.

 

Your rating will be shot, you will be harassed constantly, you won't get decent help on here as not wanting to pay isn't exactly a reason for not paying, and you may well end up in front of a judge who will not be best pleased with your reasons. In short, if you can pay them, do pay them!

 

I don't think this thread is the best place for newcomers to start looking for info really - there's far too much emphasis placed on what the banks can't and shouldn't do, as opposed to the reality of what they will do. It's boring and slightly depressing, but if you're going to advise someone to take this course of action they should be made well aware of the many pitfalls that run parallel with it. Ask questions on some of the larger threads where the very knowledgeable members can easily be found (any of the site team, Banker Rhymes With, SurfaceAgentx20 - it's not hard to spot the respected views) and decide from there.

 

Very well said

[dx100uk]

fs, thanks for that, my comments were directed at the thread as a whole, you hsve said what i wanted to say

 

members with little exp or posts should be wary of the opinions of posters who themselves are still relatively new, seroius mistakes can be made

 

dx

[exasperated]

Hi DX

In what post in this thread do you consider that information has been given that could be dangerous so I am aware of it being a relative newcomer

Exasp

[dx100uk]

not going there.........

 

six years is a long time to 'wait' for them to maybe find an enforcable agreement, if you get a no show, go for an low FnF .

 

now the OP wanted to reclaim credit cards, so where the test case comes in i don't know.

 

everything bar BANK A/C's are fair game to reclaim unlawful fees & PPI [if mis-sold].

 

claim firms are a waste of money, it easy to do it yourself and certainly takes less time that what most newcomers have spent typing in the forum already.

 

find the forum for your leecher [co. name] and strata new thread and off you go, get reclaiming.

 

don't talk - reclaim!

 

dx

[exasperated]

Hi DX,

I found your reply very interesting, thanks

Exasp

[Dhuml]

Hi, I am hoping you can help.

I was made redundant back in september 2009 and as a result Iam having difficulty paying my credit card debts.

I have been intouch with the CCCS and they have asked me to send my Creditors a "offer of Token Payment" letter which a £1 payment until my circumstances change.

I wanted to know if I send the Token payment letter is that a acknowledgment of my debt and theirfore unable to challenge the CCA agreement if I find out that the card company does not have a signed CCA?

Your help is greatly appreciated:confused:

[desigaand]

posts which keep bolstering the 'myth' that an unenforcable cca = the debt is written off are not helpful to anyone.

 

CAG is not here to assist people in avoiding paying their just dues, it is about getting even with these co's that charge unfair sums towards consumers.

 

IMHO this thread needs closing.

 

dx

 

why should these people get away with breaching the law if we cant get away with missing a payment or being late .... they deserve everything they get and I do not think it will end here.... credit reference agencies break the law by their shere existence, government ministers claiming expenses they are not entitled to and not going to jail,,,, would they allow me to pay back benefits that I had unlawfully claimed or would they throw me in jail " sorry judge fair cop I will pay it back and carry on like nothing has happened" cheers ... I dont think so... when are we going to get united and do something. look around, what has happened to our great country that we all appear so proud of.... it is in a right mess....to say the least and getting worse not better... where do you go to complain.... MP's ,only in it for themselves, lords selling favours, courts overbooked and judges often not versed with all aspects of the law.... where does it end who can help?????

 

we need many many marc ganders... uk26 is fighting CRA's, we should all support these mavericks as they have reshaped democracy for the many... get on board and support... lets get back to basics , manufacturing etc... lets not bail out banks with billions that dont even exist in paper form.... lets do what we can to push these villains over the edge... whilst they sit in mansions never having to work again for the rest of their families lives we suffer and their actions push our families into a spiral of deprivation and dispear....

 

please dont say if you have spent it then pay it back.... I spent £1000 buying furniture on a credit card and with charges and interest I will end up paying approx £5000 back to this **** so once my £1000 is paid back am I ok to take them to court for their breaches will I ever see my extra £4000 ,,, I doubt it.. they have been repaid and some...