MBNA sold to Experto - no CCA

[catsfella]

Hi there, I have recently recieved the following back from MBNA for a CCA request. The account was opened in 2003, I applied by internet tehy also sent the printouts from it so this seems to be a sign and return credit agreement dependent on credit checks.

I thought it may be of interest to you as it shows clearly what is written on the alledged reverse of the tear off slip Yours may be slighty different but generally I would say it will be the same. The photocopies I recieved are of the tear off slip and on the reverse of that is the not fully clear prescribed terms and conditions.

 

http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv22/catsfella/signedtearoffstrip.jpg

 

http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv22/catsfella/reverseoftearoffslip.jpg

 

The documents may be from the opposite sides of the same document, or it may be possible they have gone out of their way to make it look like it is on the reverse by including, on the next sheet, a reconstructed version which is slightly differently laid out. If you look you will see the last sentence on the alledged "reverse of the tear off slip" is on the top line of the second column in the clearer reconstruction. if they have reconstructed a reconstruction to make it look like it really is on the reverse that it is unbelievably cunning!! Not sure how confident I am to challenge that this is definately not on the reverse which would make it unenforcable.

 

http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv22/catsfella/reconstuctionoftearoffslipreverse.jpg

 

 

The only other arguement we could have is the fact that my / your credit limit does not match one of the example credit limits it gives to show your intersest rate, which I know has been debated alot but Im not sure if this as been tested in court.

 

Any ideas or comments would be really appreciated as I had to cancel my direct debit, which is due to go out next week, and dont know whether or not to try to pay this months now. I have also just sent off a SAR a couple of days before this arrived.

[vint1954]

Hi LB

 

Yes I am still around, just had a busy week, got another letter off to CAP1.

 

Now need to get letters of to MBNA, just got to decide what to send to them, I have one card to which they have failed to respond to my CCA request in April and another (Virgin) they have sent a signed tear off slip, which is illegible!

 

I will post any response I get, but don't hold your breath waiting!

Either the data controller or Gail Powell

[vint1954]

Hi there, I have recently recieved the following back from MBNA for a CCA request. The account was opened in 2003, I applied by internet tehy also sent the printouts from it so this seems to be a sign and return credit agreement dependent on credit checks.

I thought it may be of interest to you as it shows clearly what is written on the alledged reverse of the tear off slip Yours may be slighty different but generally I would say it will be the same. The photocopies I recieved are of the tear off slip and on the reverse of that is the not fully clear prescribed terms and conditions.

 

http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv22/catsfella/signedtearoffstrip.jpg

 

http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv22/catsfella/reverseoftearoffslip.jpg

 

The documents may be from the opposite sides of the same document, or it may be possible they have gone out of their way to make it look like it is on the reverse by including, on the next sheet, a reconstructed version which is slightly differently laid out. If you look you will see the last sentence on the alledged "reverse of the tear off slip" is on the top line of the second column in the clearer reconstruction. if they have reconstructed a reconstruction to make it look like it really is on the reverse that it is unbelievably cunning!! Not sure how confident I am to challenge that this is definately not on the reverse which would make it unenforcable.

 

http://i666.photobucket.com/albums/vv22/catsfella/reconstuctionoftearoffslipreverse.jpg

 

 

The only other arguement we could have is the fact that my / your credit limit does not match one of the example credit limits it gives to show your intersest rate, which I know has been debated alot but Im not sure if this as been tested in court.

 

Any ideas or comments would be really appreciated as I had to cancel my direct debit, which is due to go out next week, and dont know whether or not to try to pay this months now. I have also just sent off a SAR a couple of days before this arrived.

The T&C's are the sme document for any copy application that they send out, so unlikely to be the reverse.

 

Check the printing codes and dates to see if they match.

[HDW]

Hi all,

Hope you can help. I have an agreement with MBNA to pay £100 per month, and they are freezing interest and cahrges. If I ask for a CCA can they withdraw the agreement. I want to know if this debt is enforceable. Also have the same situation for Cap one and paying them 64 per month.

Thanks

[catsfella]

Thanks once again for taking time to look vint1954. The time you take out to help is really helpful and appreciated. I suppose once again there is no real way to find out unless you end up in court. Maybe some more details will turn up with the SAR.

 

Do the codes on a reconstruction have to reflect or match the document that they are copied from? I would assume that the reconstruction document would have a unique code, but if it must show all details from the original document it is copied from, surely it must also show the document reference numbers that are on the original document?

[LB145]

Phone call to my home last night very casually asked for (my forename) so my husband handed the phone thinking it was a friend (very clever) the MBNA lady immediately started talking about my arrears needing to be cleared immediately - I told her that the account is in offiicial dispute and with the FOS as she was well aware and she had not even bothered to do a security check - she informed me that as my account was in dispute she does not have to ask me security questions ??? - obviously told her I was not prepared to discuss personal information on the telephone especially with her lack of security!! - As if I was going to discuss anything anyway

Edited November 24, 2009 by LB145
Spelling

[exchange]

Hi LB145, they will try every trick they can to talk to you. If you get caught out again one of the best ways to get rid of them is to say the call is being recorded even if it isn't. You will hear a click almost instantly!

[bobinky]

I had the friendly 'is jack in' call several times.When asked who it was theyd say 'its Carol'(or some such).

I asked what they wanted and theyd admit it was MBNA,then Id give them a bollocking along the lines of 'since when has it been OK to use a business customers first name','when you call me you address me as Mr brown not bloody Jack who the hell do you think you are using my first name your not a friend you are a bank,who the hell told you it was OK to use first names you cheeky bastard never ever call me again if this is your attitude etc etc.

This was until they said they would keep calling me against my verbal and written requests until I spoke to them at which point I said if they kept calling then I would tell them to FO,and put the phone down.She called 1 second later so I told her to FO and put the phone down.

1 second later she called and said 'do you not know how to talk to people on the phone Mr Brown,Yes I said,FO and again put down the phone.

Never called again,then I changed phone number a week later,best move I made.

[vint1954]

Thanks once again for taking time to look vint1954. The time you take out to help is really helpful and appreciated. I suppose once again there is no real way to find out unless you end up in court. Maybe some more details will turn up with the SAR.

 

Do the codes on a reconstruction have to reflect or match the document that they are copied from? I would assume that the reconstruction document would have a unique code, but if it must show all details from the original document it is copied from, surely it must also show the document reference numbers that are on the original document?

The printers codes would be just about the same back and front and back if they were part of the original document. The act requires that they supply a true copy of the agreement, that is an exact copy of the agreement minus signatures, but in that instance, it would need to be coppied from the original.

 

If they have said in their reply that what they have supplied is a true copy of the original, then they are bound by their words, see s172 of the CCA 1974.

[Dotty50]

Either the data controller or Gail Powell

 

Hi Vint,

 

I have seen her name on threads here, should I write to her on both cards? Do you have a specific address?

 

One more question, some people have scales and they ask you to click them when the information they give has been useful.

 

You don't have any!

 

Or have they worn out? You really put some very good letters on here to assist others so you should get some recognition.

[vint1954]

Hi Vint,

 

I have seen her name on threads here, should I write to her on both cards? Do you have a specific address?

 

One more question, some people have scales and they ask you to click them when the information they give has been useful.

 

You don't have any!

 

Or have they worn out? You really put some very good letters on here to assist others so you should get some recognition.

I would try the data controller first. Usual MBNA address.

 

Yes, we all have scales, bottom left hand corner between red triangle and green dot, under avitar, but not necessary. Happy to help where I can.

[Dotty50]

Thanks Vint,

 

Will concentrate on MBNA this week.

 

Scales there now!

 

Blonde moment maybe!

[panicos]

hi please can anyone help

 

Two months ago was shopping in Asda, a equita bail company block me in, I was with my girlfriend and our two young kids. The guy said you have outstanding fines on this car I replied impossible, as I had just bought the car, he request ID with my name as proof it was not the same as the previous owners. So showed them my virgin mbna card, he took it and had a good look and said fine ill let you go, as he pulled away he said hang on. And gave me a receipt on the previous owners name of our car, I said what’s this he replied you such a great guy you just paid the £440 fine

Laughing as he drove away. It took me a while to understand what he had just done copied my details and used it to pay this fine that was on the previous owners name. Omg could not believe it, went straight to the police they shockingly me said it’s a civil matter now, then I told my MBNA they asked for copies of my log book and a letter explaining the above, they put me on hold while they call equiter company and then another lady came on the line. Asking me personal information, was very confused then she said she was from equiter OMG mbna had try to connect a three way call cut their selfs off and let me speak to this lady. I called back straight away and they said can not prove its fraud as I showed him my card. Can any one help me as I am going mad with both company’s. mad with both company’s.

[vint1954]

hi please can anyone help

 

 

Two months ago was shopping in Asda, a equita bail company block me in, I was with my girlfriend and our two young kids. The guy said you have outstanding fines on this car I replied impossible, as I had just bought the car, he request ID with my name as proof it was not the same as the previous owners. So showed them my virgin mbna card, he took it and had a good look and said fine ill let you go, as he pulled away he said hang on. And gave me a receipt on the previous owners name of our car, I said what’s this he replied you such a great guy you just paid the £440 fine

Laughing as he drove away. It took me a while to understand what he had just done copied my details and used it to pay this fine that was on the previous owners name. Omg could not believe it, went straight to the police they shockingly me said it’s a civil matter now, then I told my MBNA they asked for copies of my log book and a letter explaining the above, they put me on hold while they call equiter company and then another lady came on the line. Asking me personal information, was very confused then she said she was from equiter OMG mbna had try to connect a three way call cut their selfs off and let me speak to this lady. I called back straight away and they said can not prove its fraud as I showed him my card. Can any one help me as I am going mad with both company’s. mad with both company’s.

Firstly, the Balif taking your credit card details without your consent is a criminal not civil matter. Go back to the police and complain to the Cheif Constable if necessary. It is theft.

 

Have you contacted the Balif company regarding this incident and their regulatory body.

[panicos]

Firstly, the Balif taking your credit card details without your consent is a criminal not civil matter. Go back to the police and complain to the Cheif Constable if necessary. It is theft.

 

Have you contacted the Balif company regarding this incident and their regulatory body.

 

Hi vint1954

 

Thanks for your reply been twice to the police but they are keeping to the civil thing as the balifs are court appointed ?, I sent in copies of log books and sale agreement of my car to the equiter and they have been so rude and say they are waiting for their clients to get back to them ?

[vint1954]

I would go to the Cheif Constable, don't mess around lower down. The Baliffs may be court apointed, however their actions are theft. You did not give your card to the Baliffs to pay the debt, but for identity reasons.

[catsfella]

Thanks again vint1954. Once again:) !

 

Blimey PANICOS, thats a blatant theft. Does it not make any difference to the bank that the transaction did not use your pin number which is surely there to safeguard you from your card being used without your consent.

 

I hope you get your money back and get one of them a criminal record for theft. If I gave a petrol station checkout guy my card and he gave me it back and said thanks alot I just ordered a nice big tv for my house of your card they would get locked up. Maybe its now ok to take money off peoples cards as long as you tell them you have taken it. its not steeling!! Jesus! Good luck

[panicos]

Thanks again vint1954. Once again:) !

 

Hi Vint194

 

Tell me about it Its drving me mad but the police dont care the Equiter bailifs are so rude and MBNA just keep going on and on and say because you showed the card that gives him the right to take your details...???

 

I am more mad with MBNA they know they can refund my money as fraud but dont want the legal battle to get their money back from Equiter

 

thanks for your reply

 

Panicos

[vint1954]

Thanks again vint1954. Once again:) !

 

Hi Vint194

 

Tell me about it Its drving me mad but the police dont care the Equiter bailifs are so rude and MBNA just keep going on and on and say because you showed the card that gives him the right to take your details...???

 

I am more mad with MBNA they know they can refund my money as fraud but dont want the legal battle to get their money back from Equiter

 

thanks for your reply

 

Panicos

That is wrong.

 

1. Complain to the Cheif Constable about the theft.

 

2. Complain to the Court regarding the Baliffs actions.

 

3. Complain to the FOS regarding MBNA's attitude and write to the CEO of MBNA.

 

4. There must be a regulatory body that covers Baliffs. Complain to them.

 

5. Lodge a complaint with your local trading standards.

 

6. Tell Equiter that they have 7 days to sort it out, or you will contact Watchdog and national press to investigate.

[LB145]

Wow things are getting heavy on this thread - were going in all directions

 

MBNA Account 3 (Husbands)

at 9.30am this morning was bombarded with calls from an MBNA lady (from her tone a rather aggressive lady?) she asked for Mr *** said he was not in and then she said "Mrs *** do you know this account is at £**K, I told her that I was recording this call and that he has sent letters by recorded post and we are not discussing on telephone, she was screaming that we have not received letters, told her with FOS and not talking and put phone down - then four phone calls either to mobile or home number (number was unknown had to answer as waiting for urgent call from someone) each time she screamed "there is a balance of £**k, I just kept putting the phone down - this debt (one of a few) is my major worry as I do not need her to remind me that the account balance is £**k I lay awake at night with it in my head!! - those that can do the numbers know that interest is in excess of £350 a month plus charges and that since June had added over £3k - obviously going to have to send copies again of previous correspondence.

[vint1954]

They should not discuss your husbands affairs with you. Another complaint to ICO looming.

[panicos]

 

 

HI vINT 1954

 

THANKS for all your time and advice will today all this today

 

regards Panicos

[LB145]

Just had call from husband - banks won the court case for unfair bank charges - can this day get any worse!

[mills1]

Watching this one for future reference.

[catsfella]

Ive looked at the MBNA library which does show alot of similar examples. I noticed the note with them is always 'there is a question of legibility but if a good copy is produced then it can be enforced'. This is leaving us in a real dilema not knowing what they will produce.

I have not yet replied to the CCA I agreed so now they will be assuming that the account is no longer in dispute. As my main fear is not having anything concrete to argue in court I was trying to come up with something more as a back up, or strengthener to my arguement for still being in dispute, allowing me to rightfully withold payments. What I am wondering is, as me and LB145 had to wait for our agreements for a time longer than was permitted, the accounts were in placed in dispute. When an account is in dispute there should be no interest or charges added to the account. As they can not deny that the agreements where sent very late to us, even in court, surely they cannot argue that the balances that are displayed on our statements are correct if they have put any charges or interest whatsoever during the period we waited for our agreements whilst in dispute.

Is this something that has been tried before? I have looked but can see nothing more than alot of people quoting the regulations with this in, for when they send the in dispute letter, rather than using it in an arguement later.