Why let your bank keep your money? Calculating your charges claim

[the_shadow]

Restitution has nothing to do with interest and, as I understand it, is entirely down to the judge to decide the amount.

 

Thats how I understand it too, the principle of restitution is that company A has had your money when clearly it was not entitled to, as such this company has used the money to make more money and as such they should not be allowed to keep the proceeds alongside the original amount they took from you. These proceeds plus the original amount should be returned in essence.

 

The problem is obviously because these "sophisticated financial institutions" hide there money left right and centre and securitize everything so its not easy to work out where joe bloggs £20 unfair charge has been used and how much money was gained from it. Hence we use the compound interest to just work out how much they have earnt from it simply!

 

Thats how I understand it anyway....

 

For everyone wanting a supreme spreadsheet that is cast iron fact... dont forget these banks have big calculators and cant get every calculation correct, it would be up to a judge and your ability to convince him/her that the interest calculation is correct at the end of the day.

 

S.

[caro]

Thanks Shadow.

 

Whatever people decide to claim, whatever spreadsheet they use, whatever interest they choose to claim or restitution or whatever, the important thing is that you understand what you're doing so that you can answer any questions that may arise in court. Let's not forget that the other side could well have a barrister or solicitor who will try to make the judge doubt the validity of what you're claiming so you MUST understand it and be able to explain your reasoning and calculations.

[car2403]

Just claim £20k in interest and let the Judge have a headache of working out how you did it!!!

 

(Please DO NOT do this...)

[Martynandemma]

Thats how I understand it too, the principle of restitution is that company A has had your money when clearly it was not entitled to, as such this company has used the money to make more money and as such they should not be allowed to keep the proceeds alongside the original amount they took from you. These proceeds plus the original amount should be returned in essence.

 

The problem is obviously because these "sophisticated financial institutions" hide there money left right and centre and securitize everything so its not easy to work out where joe bloggs £20 unfair charge has been used and how much money was gained from it. Hence we use the compound interest to just work out how much they have earnt from it simply!

 

Thats how I understand it anyway....

 

For everyone wanting a supreme spreadsheet that is cast iron fact... dont forget these banks have big calculators and cant get every calculation correct, it would be up to a judge and your ability to convince him/her that the interest calculation is correct at the end of the day.

 

S.

 

So I can use the spreadsheet to work out the charges & interest & put that in my prelim to cap 1 (attaching the speadsheet) is there any info I should remove from the spreadsheet before printing it & sending it to them ?

[the_shadow]

So I can use the spreadsheet to work out the charges & interest & put that in my prelim to cap 1 (attaching the speadsheet) is there any info I should remove from the spreadsheet before printing it & sending it to them ?

 

If you mean the spreadsheet just posted up then no, I cant see anything in there that needs to be removed.

 

S.

[Martynandemma]

If you mean the spreadsheet just posted up then no, I cant see anything in there that needs to be removed.

 

S.

 

so it should be fairly straight forward then as dont cap 1 generally role over shortly before court stage ?

[the_shadow]

so it should be fairly straight forward then as dont cap 1 generally role over shortly before court stage ?

 

Should really move this to your crap1 thread Martyandemma...

 

But basically yes they dont normally like court and especially if you claim interest in restitution as in theory they would have to open up their accounts to show how the money you paid unfairly was invested and what the proceeds were from those investments.

 

It all depends on how strong you appear to them as they will try and make a usually much smaller offer and invite you to cease your claim.

 

S.

[Martynandemma]

I have been at that stage twice before with them but I didnt have the time or money to follow it through plus I havent put in a schedule of charges before.

 

So am doing it properly this time, this is why I want to be 100% certain what I am doing. I believe I have now got the understanding right for interest at compund rate in restitution.

 

Put simply we are charging them interest at the rate they charge us, on the charges, the interest on the charges & compounding that figure. the basis for this is that the company has profited from our misfortune by unlawfully charging us.

 

How does that sound ? have I got it ? if I havent please tell me what I am missing

 

thanks again

 

martyn

[Fenris]

OK, I've read the above and I still don't know if the spreadsheet posted on the last page of this thread (15) is the correct one to use. Please, someone, anyone, a simple answer!

[Martynandemma]

I will be using that spreadsheet, so the answer is yes to your question

 

who are you reclaiming from ? as some banks / cc companies are easier to claim from

 

RBS for instance are quite a difficult one, but I think it depends how much your claim works out to.

[Fenris]

Thanks. I'm claiming back from Barclaycard. It works out at a smidge under 3k going back to November 2000 which is why I want to be sure it's the right spreadsheet.

[MRS_P]

Halifax have repaid my credit char charged including contractual interest at simple rates but will not repay compounded interest.

 

Is there a template letter/ LBA I could use requesting compounded interest?

 

Thanks

Mrs_P

[landy_alert]

Hi everyone:)

 

I have a question relating to the overdraft interest issue and my court claim against LTSB (I do have a thread in the LTSB forum, but thought it would be a good idea to post the query here as the answer may be of usae to others in a similar situation) -

 

I recently submitted my N1 for charges including overdraft interest as per discussion earlier in this thread and have just received LTSB's defence.

 

In this they state -

 

'The Claimant's claim appears to be misconceived in that the Claimant is seeking a refund of overdraft interest. There is no claim for refund of the authorised rate interest as it is contractually due and is a core term of the agreement between the Bank and the Claimant. As such the Defendant denies that they are indebted to the Claimant for the sums claimed under this heading.'

 

Their defence goes on to quote the case law that they intend to rely on -

 

'Emerald Meats (London) Ltd. v A/B Group (UK) Plc [2002] EWCA Civ 460 which is authority for the proposition that a customer entering into overdraft arrangement could expect to pay interest on the basis of the standard practice operated by the bank.'

 

I just wondered what case law I need to rely on to argue my point?

 

Many thanks,

 

Landy x

Edited November 8, 2009 by landy_alert
Spelling!!!

[AA99]

I have come across this before Landy. It is very complicated and I agreed with that thinking previously aswell. However, there comes a time when you have paid your (agreed) overdraft interest so much as that you have completely paid off the overdraft in interest. It is thereafter that you have been charged interest on their own interest at your expense:eek:

 

I hope that you have followed my train of thought there and I hope someone else will bounce in just now and explain it properly:D

 

I shall copy and paste your response received in my own bank charges thread and see if I get a response there too:cool:

[middenmess]

 

I recently submitted my N1 for charges including overfraft interest as per discussion earlier in this thread and have just received LTSB's defence.

 

In this they state -

 

'The Claimant's claim appears to be misconceived in that the Claimant is seeking a refund of overdraft interest. There is no claim for refund of the authorised rate interest as it is contractually due and is a core term of the agreement between the Bank and the Claimant. As such the Defendant denies that they are indebted to the Claimant for the sums claimed under this heading.'

 

Their defence goes on to quote the case law that they intend to rely on -

 

'Emerald Meats (London) Ltd. v A/B Group (UK) Plc [2002] EWCA Civ 460 which is authority for the proposition that a customer entering into overdraft arrangement could expect to pay interest on the basis of the standard practice operated by the bank.'

 

I just wondered what case law I need to rely on to argue my point?

 

Many thanks,

 

Landy x

 

It would appear it's the Bank which have the misconceived notion--they would appear not to have understood what you are claiming.

 

They think that you are trying to get the legitimately charged O/D interest back!

 

Not sure as to how you can get them to understand your arguement though-perhaps bankfodder could advise.

[landy_alert]

Hi AA and middenmess:)

 

Thank you both for your replies.

 

AA - yes, I understand what you mean and appreciate you adding this to your thread for further input! It's at times like this I wonder why I'm doing this:eek:

 

Middenmess - yes, trust LTSB and **** to try to interpret it their way - the schedule of charges spreadsheet should make it clear that I'm not claiming the legitimately charged o/d interest, but I doubt they even bother to look at such things:( As you say BankFodder's advice on this point would be most welcome!

 

Regards,

 

Landy x

[enoughisenough]

having put **** to bed more than once I can tell you that their bark is far worse than their bite. They are the ones who are misconceived and you WOULD NOT BELIEVE the schoolboy errors they make. They once argued against a stay when they were the ones who had asked for it. Doh....

 

S = Simpletons

C = Crap at their job

M = Muppets.

[caro]

Overdraft interest is not claimable, BUT the interest on the part of the overdraft made up of charges can be claimed. If those charges weren't there you wouldn't be paying interest on them. Obviously the bank is going to try and wriggle out of paying as much as they can, which is why it's VITAL that you understand what you are claiming, so that, if necessary, you can explain it to the judge in court.

[rebel11]

I've figured out that I need to claim the interest element for the bankcharges, not the total interest for the overdraft. Problem is that I only scanned the front part of the statements. And I'm going back a number of years. Every time I think I've nailed it something else crops up.

 

Any suggestions?

[tedney]

subbing so I can get my head round all this! Just found this thread today! I have a case, stayed at the moment. Bank issued summons to me, and I defended with charges and interest, as per moneysavingexpert calculator.

Awaiting the outcome of test case. Maybe I will have to amend defence to include "interest on interest and charges" i.e. interest on that which the bank charged to make me go overdrawn, if I have understood this correctly. Will return and read through the thread later.

[bigyeti]

Back in May 2007, Halifax paid up. Huzzah! However, I never calculated the interest and didn't claim it. Am I in a position to claim it now? It'll take some calculating because some of the charges accrued were within the limit and thus charged at one interest rate and some charges were after I'd gone over my overdraft limit, with interest at the higher rate.

 

On top of this, there has been a few extra charges but I don't think they took me into the red.

[tifo]

Back in May 2007, Halifax paid up. Huzzah! However, I never calculated the interest and didn't claim it. Am I in a position to claim it now?

 

I would have thought that you accepted their offer in full and final settlement of your claim, much the same as i did with my claims.

 

I doubt you can claim statutory interest if they've refunded the charges since the right to that only seems to exist at court or the FOS.

 

However, i think that you can claim interest on charges which is the subject of this thread if you didn't claim them as part of your complaint.

 

Would be interesting to read what others think as i am in the same situation.

Edited December 7, 2009 by tifo

[bigyeti]

I wonder if the interest could count as a seperate claim, and the 'full and final settlement' doesn't apply, or have I missed the boat?

 

There have been a few other charges since though to the tune of £309 plus £38 s.69 interest. But unlike last time, I'll be adding on the contractual interest too.

[car2403]

You'd struggle to claim the interest if you've agreed a F&F settlement.

 

As pointed out, you can only enforce a claim for interest by bringing a Court claim - now you don't have a claim to bring.

 

This is one of the pitfalls the site team point out when people are considering accepting F&F offers of settlement, as it effectively closes the door on further litigation on the same issues.

[enoughisenough]

just to add though slightly off topic F&F terms embedded into settlements were to have no effect from January 2009. This got missed by a lot of people. So if by chance you have had a claim settled, (some have) most won't, this year there is a fair chance that F&F will not apply.

 

By the same token you would not want to look vexatious before our banker friendly courts.