Help.. Just recieved OP costs bill for £5000 for Civil Action

[groovycaz]

Hi all, just received the OP reply to my points of dispute

 

IGNM, would you know what happens next please, I have my set aside hearing on the 28 Sept

Edited July 19, 2009 by groovycaz
thumbnails to small to read

[groovycaz]

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z274/joshsam03/001.jpg

 

 

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Edited July 21, 2009 by groovycaz
lost image

[I've got no money]

hhttp://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z274/joshsam03/002.jpg

 

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z274/joshsam03/001.jpg

 

To be honest I'm not sure - I need to look it up?

 

I've been tied up trying to help another Cagger for most of the day - I'll check the rules tomorrow.

 

If I haven't got back to you by Weds can you pm me to remind me

[surfaceagentx20]

Having considered the bill, it is clear that a costs order was made against you on 21 July 2008. But for the Defendant's status as assisted by the LSC, the cost of the hearing would have been summarily assessed on 21 July 2008. The ordinary effect of such an order is that the costs are to be determined at the conclusion of the proceedings. First question therefore: have the proceedings been finally concluded? If so, with what result? If not, what remains to be done?

 

Next, taking each point in the Reply to the Points of Dispute I would comment as follows:

 

1-3 Counsel's Fees

This concerned an interlocutory application for what I figure was specific disclosure of documents. Preparation for such an application would easily be within the routine skill and expertise of a solicitor with 4 years PQE or less. The work involves deciding if speicifc disclosure is required and if so preparing an aplication notice and supporting witness statement. That's all. To justify the use of counsel would require elements of complexity taking the application out of the norm. In justification for the use of counsel the Defendant merely points to the need to have the witness statement 'accurate.' Whilst it is important that the statemnt should be accurate, accuracy has nothing to do with complexity. Besdies, if counsel was instruted to prepare, the accuracy of the statement would have been entirely dependent upon the information in the instructions prepared by the Defendant's solicitors. If the solicitors were capable of providing accurate information in the instructions then they were capable of incorporating it themselves in the witness statement without recourse to counsel.

 

5 Affidavit

An affidavit is not required. One duly verified witness statement is sufficient.

 

6 Counsel's Brief Fee

See points 1-3 above.

 

14 Adjournment

An adjournemmnt was unncesary since the attendance of the Defendant was not crucial for the purpose of giving evidence. Evidence of the Defendant's state of health was therefore unecessary unless the adjournment was opposed. I assume it was not opposed since there is no refernce in the bill of costs to a hearing at which there was an opposed hearing of an application to adjourn.

 

General Point

The Defendant refers to complexity without identifying the complexity, merely knowledge of previous dealings. That of itself and in isolation does not justify a demand that the paying party should bear the cost of the Defendant retaining a level 1 fee earner. Besides, this person was legally aided! Further, what is the complexity precisely. There is no evidence that the applicatino was opposed and if so on what complex grounds. The grounds for the application appear to be simply that the Defendant did not believe the Claimant's version of events. There's nothing complex in that.

 

23

The question of reasonableness of time spent is in the discretion of the court. A more experienced fee earner can be presumed to spend less time on the same perice of work than a less experienced fee earner.

 

24 and 25

Evidence in support of the application from more than one person is unnecessary

 

27

See item 23

 

28

Any fee earner will know the court fee without having to check it. It's £75.00. Ask to see an attendance note

 

 

What happens next is the Defendant should file the bill and suporting papers along with the Points of Dispute and Reply with the court and ask the court to fix a date for a detailed assessment hearing. The Defendant may postpone this until after the hearing of your aplication.

 

I imagine your application is limited to a setting aside of the order for costs made 21 July 2008. You base your application on the fact that you did not know that it was listed for hearing that day. I note with some suspicion that the Defendant claims that during the entire period for which costs are claimed communications with you involved just one telephone call (item 16). That is extraordinary. It suggests to me the Defendant never once formally informed you of a requirement for specific discovery, of the intention to apply nor of anything else. If I am right, it goes to the notion of reasonableness and complexity (reasonableness in the sense that £1000s of tax payers money seems to have been spent on an application to the court where a simple request to you would have achieved the same result and in terms of complexity, if you had not advanced any opposition to the application, what made it complicated?).

 

My major concern is that having learned of the costs order you then did nothing about reversing it until after you received the Defendant's bill of costs. You will need a good explanation for the delay. Without one you may be in difficulty reversing the costs order though of course your rights to oppose the amount of costs claimed will remain intact.

 

x20

[groovycaz]

Thank you so much for both your reply's,

 

The only reason we did not contest the costs order was because of the wording of the document, which stated about public funding purposes and the other party was in receipt of legal aid, I know ignorence is no excuse but this has been dragging on for so long and they had 3 different solicitors we just did not realise that the order meant we were responsible for the OP costs, also because it took them 9 months to serve the costs on us we had more or less frgotten about it, the case is still ongoing although because the OP's Legal aid certificate has expired she claims she is unable to continue with self funding,

 

how would you suggest we tackle the DJ at out set aside hearing about the time thats passed,

 

thank you both for your help

 

Gc..

[groovycaz]

Hi all, letter sent to OP's sol last night as advised..thanks again

 

One question, would anyone be able to advise whether at the set aside hearing, can the hearing take place without the claimant being present, the reason i ask is that when i informed the OP sols that i had made an application to set aside the judgement, they immediatley replied stating they would oppose so dont think they would have contacted the OP for directions???

[groovycaz]

Just thought I might add, the OP was ordered by the judge at the original hearing which was nearly 3 years ago to return our belongings which she removed from the caravan, she claimed they were in storage for "safe keeping" and although we have requested that they adhear to the order several times to her sol, they have still not returned them to us and refuse to answer our requests!!!

[I've got no money]

 

how would you suggest we tackle the DJ at out set aside hearing about the time thats passed,

 

Gc..

 

We had this conversation about delay at the very beginning - I think that you have to stress that you were never served with the Notice of Hearing and then you have to stress that had you attended that the Order would not have been made.

 

As far as delay goes - explain that you were an LIP, that you didn't have access to advice, explain your specific circumstances - you could have a look at London North Securities Ltd v Tony James Meadows [2005] EWCA Civ 956 - in Meadows a judgment was set aside years after being obtained - its' not exactly on the same facts as your case but the principle is the same. In Meadows they only applied to set aside when they were given proper advice

[I've got no money]

Hi all, letter sent to OP's sol last night as advised..thanks again

 

 

What letter?

[I've got no money]

Just thought I might add, the OP was ordered by the judge at the original hearing which was nearly 3 years ago to return our belongings which she removed from the caravan, she claimed they were in storage for "safe keeping" and although we have requested that they adhear to the order several times to her sol, they have still not returned them to us and refuse to answer our requests!!!

 

Can you post a copy of the original order?

[groovycaz]

What letter?

 

 

As advised by x20 at post 54

[I've got no money]

I didn't realise that x20 had?

 

I thought that they were just x20's thoughts - can you post a copy of the letter that you sent them?

[I've got no money]

I don't think that they've explained why they delayed in lodging the bill have they...

[groovycaz]

I don't think that they've explained why they delayed in lodging the bill have they...

 

No, no reasons given..Gc

[I've got no money]

As far as the costs process is concerned - its' governed by CPR 47.13 onwards

 

PART 47 - PROCEDURE FOR DETAILED ASSESSMENT OF COSTS AND DEFAULT PROVISIONS - Ministry of Justice

 

I think that their reply is out of time - but as its' optional its' probably not an issue

[groovycaz]

Hi IGNM

 

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http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z274/joshsam03/CCI21072009_00003.jpg

 

original order

[groovycaz]

 

IGNM

 

The letter I sent was more or less worded the same as x20 advised, just slightly altered to suit our situation...Gc

[I've got no money]

Hi GC

 

Any news?

[groovycaz]

Hi IGNM

 

Nope, they didnt reply or acknowledge receipt of my reply, to their reply, of my points of dispute.

 

phoned the court and they havent filed their costs order as yet.

 

The set aside is on the 28th Sept so just in the process of getting my witness statement together along with all other satements and relevant docs in my court bundle, I cant mess this up as I dont have5 grand to pay them...

[groovycaz]

Hi all I was thinking about wrting to the OP Sols asking whether their client intends to attend court on the day of te set aside hearing, I've a feeling she will not want to attend and I believe she should be there.

 

The question is, does she have to attend and if not can I request that she attends as it is relevant to the hearing ? thanks Gc

[groovycaz]

Hi all, I was wondering whether anyone can advise please, I've written to the OP Sols re: set aside hearing on 28th, no reply as yet, the questions are

 

1 as the order is against the OP and not her Sols, would she be expected to attend

 

2 her LSC has expired so if she were to attend, would she have to cover her Sols costs or do you think they would act on her behalf as its a costs award she has against us.

 

3 say if she was not to attend, could I request to the DJ that I believe its relevant that she attends??

 

4 say she does'nt attend and the hearing goes ahead with her Sols representing, can I ask how they are being paid as she no longer has legal aid.

 

I'm preparing my witness statement and getting my paperwork together, is there anything that I should be aware of, re: late filing of costs, 9 months, 3 Sol's change, I really dont want to mess this up..many thanks...Gc

Edited September 6, 2009 by groovycaz
typo

[groovycaz]

Bump...anyone please...

[groovycaz]

Hi all,

 

Received today the OP Sols reply to my letter,

 

They are confirming that they will be attending the hearing to oppose my application, their client will not be attending since there is no need for her to do so and will i provide them with a copy of the application notice and any documentation upon which i will be relying.

 

I knew she would not attend, the Sols are attending without payment from their client, she wont pay out any money from her own pocket, can anyone give me any advice please ???

 

I've started gathering my doc's together, do I need to exchange within 14 days of the hearing??? do they have to send me their reasons for opposing at the same time ?? any advice would be greatly appreciated..Gc

Edited September 12, 2009 by groovycaz
typo

[groovycaz]

Bump....

 

anyone with any legal knowledge, can you please advise....I'm running out of time:eek:

[groovycaz]

Is there any one there who can please advise me before I get into court and come out owing £5000

 

PLEASE