Help.. Just recieved OP costs bill for £5000 for Civil Action

[groovycaz]

Went to civil court in Feb 06 after my Father in Law passed away and his lady friend attempted to dispose of his brand new static caravan while we arranging his funeral,

 

dispute of ownership which judge ruled as 50/50 and us to sell and divide the proceeds

 

OP ordered to return our posessions which she removed from the c/van and also provide us with keys..(she did not)

 

After the winter months and still no key, hired locksmith to gain entry and all pipes burst causing hundreds of pounds worth of damage,

 

OP solicitos refused to take responsibility for damage despite photo evidence so we informed them we would deduct the costs from her share when the c/van was sold.

 

They then questioned every bill, including the sale price of the c/van stating that we sold it for £7000 more than we actually did while ignoring the fact that they had flooded it.

 

They then applied to the courts for us to disclose the sale value from the holiday park as they did not believe us, we had our court bundle together then the day before the hearing in feb 08 the OP solicitor called and stated she was asking for the case to be adjourned as her client could not attend

 

We did not object, however we have since discovered that the hearing was held in August 08, we did not receive the summons as it was sent to the firm of solicitors we used when the case first went to court although since then all letter's etc came straight to us and the solicitor did not pass the summons on.

 

The OP asked for costs to be awarded and yesterday we recieved their detailed assessment of costs for nearly £5000.

 

I called the court and asked what it was for and was told that the OP were looking to claim that amount from me..

 

Can someone please guide me on what to do..I'm in complete shock..Gc:eek:

 

Ps sorry if i've posted this in the wrong place

[I've got no money]

You need to apply to the court on an N244 for an order setting he hearing aside. You also need to apply promptly.

 

Can I ask the Solicitors who you originally instructed - presumably they must have filed sme sort of papers with the court and have gone on the court record as acting on your behalf. When they ceased to act you should have served a notice of acting in person on the court - that would mean that the court would correspond with you not the Solicitors. Did that happen?

 

Did you receive any other orders or notices from the court

 

The other question is how long have you known about the hearing last year - the reason I ask is that if they've had a detailed assessment done they must have served you with their bill some time ago

Edited April 18, 2009 by I've got no money

[creditcardmug]

You might want to look into suing your solicitor as well, by the looks of things

[I've got no money]

Very true - especially if they were still on the court record - in that case they should have attended the hearing - but we need to clarify what exactly happened - it may be a county court cock up...

[groovycaz]

Hello all and thanks for theb reply's

 

The OP knew we were acting in person as all previous letters were addressed directly to us

 

the first time we knew anything about the court order was in october when we recieved a demand for £6000 because they had informed the court that the OP had heard we sold the c/van for £12500 because she claimed she had been told by someone (who she claimed worked at the park although the name she gave, the person never existed).

 

At that point we had no idea that the case had been heard and the solicitor we had previously used had issued the form to state we were acting in person after they wrote to us with a copy of the form, however they did not pass the order on to us so we missed the case,

 

The wording of the order also confused us as the OP claimed legal aid and the order stated....

 

"The claimants shall pay the defendants costs of and accassioned by this application, such costs to besubject to detailed assessment for public funding purposes"

 

The first we knew about this detailed assessment was yesterday when the list of costs arrived,

 

the OP have discontinued after thei legal certificate expired

 

the whole purpose of them bringing the issue back to court was to supply information they already had...Gc

Edited April 18, 2009 by groovycaz
typo

[groovycaz]

we have not recieved a copy of the order from the court todate, the copy we had was from the OP demanding half of £12500 which she claimed was the sale price of the c/van

[groovycaz]

[quote

The other question is how long have you known about the hearing last year - the reason I ask is that if they've had a detailed assessment done they must have served you with their bill some time ago

 

Would you happen to know whether there is a timescale for submitting costs, 9 months seems a long time??

[I've got no money]

Several quick thoughts:-

 

1. You say that they discontinued - are you sure - because if they did then as I understand it the normal order is that they pay your costs

 

See CPR 38 (6)

 

PART 38 - DISCONTINUANCE - Ministry of Justice

 

2. In terms of the hearing - it is not the other parties obligation to notify you it is the Court's. The court sends a notice of hearing to both parties the OP would not know where the court had sent yours.

 

3. As your previous Solicitors have come off record by serving the notice on the court it's not their fault - its' not good practice not to forward the notice of hearing on BUT in my view its' not negligence. It appears that it is the courts' fault you therefore need to file an N244 with the Court applying to set the judgment aside. In the N244 you need to explain what's happened that your Solrs ceased acting and came off record and that you did not get the notice of hearing and that you now understand that the notice went to the former sols who did not forward it on - you need to explain when you first became aware of it and why you are only justy applying to set the judgment aside.

 

4. Detailed assessmemt proceedings should, I think, be commenced within 3 months. See CPR 47.7. There is a sanction for commencing late that is that the court MAY (not must) disallow all or part of the costs CPR 47.8

 

Have a read at the Civil Procedure Rules and Practice Directions on costs

 

PART 47 - PROCEDURE FOR DETAILED ASSESSMENT OF COSTS AND DEFAULT PROVISIONS - Ministry of Justice

 

PART 44 - GENERAL RULES ABOUT COSTS - Ministry of Justice

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/practice_directions/pd_parts43-48.htm

 

 

Costs rules are complex. I think that you need to write to the Other Sides' Solicitors immediately and tell them that you are going to apply to set the judgment aside and ask them to agree to extend your time for replying to their bill until after the set aside has been determined. Say that if you don't hear from them within seven days that you will assume that they have agreed to extend time.

 

I'm not sure if telling them that unless they object that you will assume they agree actually works in law BUT it usually gets you a response.

 

The problem is that you need to reply quickly, 21 days from the date of service of the bill, CPR 47.9, with points of dispute - the practice direction tells you what you need to include in them - I've given you the link to the rules and the practice direction.

 

Have a look and then come back to us with any questions

 

5. Can I ask did you the OP send you a copy of the order back in October - if not when did they send it you - if it is more than a few weeks ago can I ask what did you do about it? - you'll need to explain that in your application to set aside

[groovycaz]

Thank you so much for your help IGNM

The reason the OP sent us a copy of the Order back in Oct was to point out a section of the order which stated that should we not disclose to them them the actual bill of sale by 1 sept tjhen we were to pay to them £6250

 

as we knew nothing of the court order we had not given them a copy of the actual bill of sale, thats when they sent a copy of the order highlighting this point

 

We had previously given them paperwork that the sale price of the caravan was £5000 but they did not believe us as she heard the c/van had sold for £12500, however this is the sale price the park sold it on for after they purchased it from us, but they were having none of it.

 

when they sent us the demand with a copy of the order in oct and i again wrote with the proof of sale and threatened to complain about their solicitor who had it seemed to us began a personal vendeta against us they accepted that we had in fact been telling the truth and we heard nothing more until the detailed assessement of their costs arrived..

 

I've received form N244 from the courts today after my call to them

which send straight back

 

i'm really worried as all this could have been avoided had they not listened to the OPs hearsay their solicitor even took the OP and her son to court to have sworn affidavit's about a call she claimed they received from a sales rep from the park and named this person, yet no one by the name she had given had ever been employed by the park and she also swore she went to the park in early july and saw the c/van there when we have paperwork to prove the c/van was at another park 50 miles away and we did not sell it until 6 weeks later:eek:

 

I'l have a look at the links you gave me and thank you very much for your excellent advise, i'm not at all clued up with civil rules

 

I'l keep you up to date with things...Gc

Edited April 21, 2009 by groovycaz
typo

[groovycaz]

The wording of the document states

 

"The claimant purported that the caravan had been sold for £5000 , in the meantime the defendant obtained information that the caravan had been sold for £12500 and sought confirmation of the sale price. The defendant therefore sought information regarding the sale to confirm the claimants had complied with the order. The defendant also sought further order with regard to the claimants proposed deductions from the sale price.

Public funding was obtained and theb matter considered. Council was instructed and an application was drafted. A statement was prepared on behalf of the instructing solicitor and an affidavit was prepared on behalf of the defendant and her son.

It was ordered that the claimants do provide the defendants solicitors with documentary evidence regarding the sale price of the caravan and the claimants were ordered to pay the defendants costs of and occasioned by this application.

Further correspondence took place and a part 36 offer was made. The claimants refused.

An Application was made to extend the level of public funding. The certificate was not amended and the defendant was unable to continue with her legal aid contributions. The public funding certificate was subsequently discharged...does this mean she's discontinued??

[I've got no money]

The wording of the document states

 

"The claimant purported that the caravan had been sold for £5000 , in the meantime the defendant obtained information that the caravan had been sold for £12500 and sought confirmation of the sale price. The defendant therefore sought information regarding the sale to confirm the claimants had complied with the order. The defendant also sought further order with regard to the claimants proposed deductions from the sale price.

Public funding was obtained and theb matter considered. Council was instructed and an application was drafted. A statement was prepared on behalf of the instructing solicitor and an affidavit was prepared on behalf of the defendant and her son.

It was ordered that the claimants do provide the defendants solicitors with documentary evidence regarding the sale price of the caravan and the claimants were ordered to pay the defendants costs of and occasioned by this application.

Further correspondence took place and a part 36 offer was made. The claimants refused.

An Application was made to extend the level of public funding. The certificate was not amended and the defendant was unable to continue with her legal aid contributions. The public funding certificate was subsequently discharged...does this mean she's discontinued??

 

No - what discharge of legal aid means is that she is no longer legally aided - so in terms of the claim if she wants her Solicitors to represent her then she would have to pay privately or act as an LIP

 

What appears to have happened is that they went to Court (when you weren't told of the hearing) and got an order against you which included their costs of making the application. Legal Aid was subsequently discharged BUT the Solicitors are seeking those costs (as they are entitled to do)

 

You should really have applied to set the Judgment aside back when you found out about it but its' worthwhile doing it now.

 

Their costs incidentally seem excessive - are you sure that they're claiming it all against you. Costs get quite complicated - there will be be two parts to their bill - one a claim against you and the other a claim against the Legal Services Commission.

 

It's impossible to advise you on whether the bill is reasonable without seeing it. I think that your best course is to try to set the order aside - explain exactly what happened when you found out about the in October and why you didn't apply to set aside then. If you lose that application (incidentally I think that your chances are quite good of winning) then you need to see a local Solicitor to go through the bill

[groovycaz]

Update

 

I've applied to have the order set aside, my 21 days for objecting to any costs expires on Thursday,

 

I've Got No Money, I would really appreciate it if you would mind looking at the assessment and guide me through how I should reply, I dont think the OP will reply to my letter before Thursday and I'm worried they go for the full cert of costs before any set-aside hearing takes place

[groovycaz]

and these

[groovycaz]

This is the last

Thanks so much for your time and all help..Gc

[groovycaz]

sorry all, just noticed my thumbnails are two small to read, will have another go at uploading docs

[I've got no money]

I'm afraid that I can't read the docs - it might help if you use Photobucket.

 

I should stress that I have never done points of dispute - I've always used costs draftsman - I'm happy to have a look and to make suggestions BUT my suggestions will NOT be professional advice - You cannot rely upon my suggestions and should take your own professional legal advice.

 

It would also be helpful to see the letter that you sent to the OP's Solrs - it also might be an idea to phone them up and speak to the Solr and see if they will agree to your extension.

[groovycaz]

Ok I have all docs uploaded in photobucket, could I please be advised how to post them, sorry I'm useless with a computer

[groovycaz]

sorry i'm struggling to upload docs, will call OP solicitors in the morning and post back..Gc

[groovycaz]

009.jpg picture by groovycaz-photos - Photobucket

 

010-1.jpg picture by groovycaz-photos - Photobucket

 

011-1.jpg picture by groovycaz-photos - Photobucket

Edited April 27, 2009 by groovycaz
typo

[groovycaz]

consumer picture by groovycaz-photos - Photobucket

 

012-1.jpg picture by groovycaz-photos - Photobucket

 

civil picture by groovycaz-photos - Photobucket

 

civil picture by groovycaz-photos - Photobucket

 

 

civil picture by groovycaz-photos - Photobucket

 

civil picture by groovycaz-photos - Photobucket

 

civil picture by groovycaz-photos - Photobucket

[groovycaz]

no need for the call, receiveded the following this morning, just about to call the court for advise,

 

really, had they filed their schedule of costs onto me within 3 months as they were supposed to (instead of 9) i would have applied to have the order set aside earlier:mad:

Edited April 28, 2009 by groovycaz
broken link

[groovycaz]

http://s528.photobucket.com/albums/dd321/groovycaz-photos/?action=view&current=001-1.jpg&t=1240923869197

[I've got no money]

I'm gonna struggle to go through these before after 9.30pm on Weds night - I've got a University assignment that I've got to work on.

 

I'll have a look then and post some suggestions but its' difficult without knowing about what happened and about the Orders etc.

 

Can I ask - the hearing that you didn't attend - the Sols seem to suggest that you knew about it...was there any corresp from them telling you about it

[groovycaz]

I'm gonna struggle to go through these before after 9.30pm on Weds night - I've got a University assignment that I've got to work on.

 

I'll have a look then and post some suggestions but its' difficult without knowing about what happened and about the Orders etc.

 

Can I ask - the hearing that you didn't attend - the Sols seem to suggest that you knew about it...was there any corresp from them telling you about it

 

Thank you so much for your time IGNM,

 

no what the sol means is that I corresponded with her after the hearing, which is when she wrote to me 4 weeks after the hearing took place as we were also ordered to disclose our dealings with the park and because she had informed the DJ that we had sold the van for £12500, if we did not disclose we were orderd to pay into the court £6250, as we were unaware of the order and the sol wrote to us demanding we pay this amount into court..Gc thanks again for your time

[groovycaz]

I'm totally gobsmacked that a hearing can cost this much money, after all its only about a caravan, part of the order was that the OP were to return our private belongings and give us a key to the van, her sol is not interested that she has failed to comply, whats worse is that the OP obtained lagal aid for the first hearing which again was for around £3000, and now this much, if she had believed us when we informed her of the sale price there would nothave been any need to bring this matter to court again as she has had to accept that we were telling the truth and its her client who has mis-led the court and signed untrue affidavit's:mad:

Edited April 28, 2009 by groovycaz
typo