Help.. Just recieved OP costs bill for £5000 for Civil Action

[groovycaz]

Just been looking on swarb.co.uk for info of anyone in a similar position to me re-costs

 

some one has written that when costs are awarded, no CCJ is awarded that will effect your credit file until the OP enforce the judgement, this is my main worry

 

its taken me years to get my credit straight,

 

does anyone know whether i will be able to include in my set-aside that since the hearing, I've been diagnosed with ME/Chronic Fatique Syndrone and spent a lot of time in the 9 months since the case was heard, in bed poorly in a daze, good days and bad days...Gc

 

worried at the moment as stress is a major trigger factor and i dont want to go back to that dark place:(

[I've got no money]

A costs order is expressed to be payable in 14 days...if you are stuck with one and you can negotiate with the Sols then you avoid a judgment.

 

Anyway I'm gonna have a look at this bill

[I've got no money]

Hang on a sec - unless they are instructed by the OP they can't oppose your application to SAJ - they'll either have to get Public funding or be paid privately.

 

Do them a letter - ask them if they have current instructions for the OP and ask them to confirm the basis of their clients' funding

[I've got no money]

I don't understand the bill - I think that they've typed it up wrong - I think that they have charged you L/A rates in one part then full rates in another.

 

I've only been able to look at the stuff in post 19 - photobucket just keeps crashing my internet connection

 

On the basis that they are actually claiming the full rate - which they must be.

 

These are my thoughts

 

Points of Dispute

 

 

 

Fees Payable by theDefendant

 

 

• The Bill of costs should have been submitted within three months. The Defendant seeks a reduction in the costs to reflect the lateness by 25%
  

• Items 1 – 3 -Counsels fees claimed in respect of the application, the statement and re-order are excessive – matter was not complex - Suggested a total fee of £200 is appropriate
  
• The Affidavit fee is not appropriate. The matter did not require affidavit evidence and should have been dealt with by witness statement - the charge should be withdrawn.
  
• Item 5 - Counsels Brief fee is excessive – extremely straightforward matter only requiring junior counsel - suggested brief fee £450
  
• Item 14 - The GP report was unnecessary and did not progress the action consequently the fee should be withdrawn
  
• General point - The matter was straightforward and, in respect of all work undertaken by the conducting Solicitor did not justify a grade one fee earner. The hourly rate charged is therefore excessive. The lack of complexity and the heavy reliance upon counsel was such as to only justify the completion of the work by a grade three fee earner. An appropriate hourly rate is £100 per hour
  
• Item 23 – The amount of time spent drafting an affidavits was excessive - suggested one hour
  
• Items 24 and 25 – The affidavit was amended on two separate occasions – the time spent was excessive - suggested a total time allowed of 24 minutes
  
• Item 27 – Counsel has already charged for drafting the application, the affidavits had already been amended twice. The amount claimed is wholly excessive - suggested that 18 minutes is appropriate
  
• Item 28 – is non chargeable work – in any event would only be appropriate for a grade three fee earner
  
• Item 29 – Counsel had already advised by telephone and had settled pleadings – the time charged is excessive - suggested one hour 18 minutes is appropriate
  
• Item 31 – the time charged for the preparation of the bill is excessive - suggested 2 hours is appropriate
  

Edited April 29, 2009 by I've got no money

[groovycaz]

I can not thank you enough I've Got No Money, I honestly dont know what I would have done without your help

 

I'l go through all the points and list as you advised

 

big tip of the scales for you..

[groovycaz]

 

big tip of the scales for you..

 

I'm having to spread your reputation around IGNM lol

 

I really appreciate the time you've spent helping me

 

I hope you got your assignment handed into uni on time..Gc

[I've got no money]

I've just discovered that there is a standard layout you should use for points of dispute

 

http://www.justice.gov.uk/civil/procrules_fin/contents/form_section_images/practice_directions/pd43-48_pdf_eps_scp/scp_g.pdf

 

Its' here - you also need to suggest what the costs figures should be...

 

I have to say that I will really struggle...doing that...but I'll have a go

[I've got no money]

I've gone through my suggestions for points of dispute and have put in how long I think things should have taken and have suggested an hourly rate.

 

'The reality tho' is that I'm really just guessing...

 

Technically you should use the form but you are an LIP - if you just do a letter and put the case name and number on it and head it points of dispute and copy what I've written - I think that it should be enough...BUT as I keep saying I am not an expert and you really should see a local Solicitor and take legal advice.

 

I haven't been able to read half of the docs - cos photobucket would not work...

 

Anyway good look - just remember I am only giving you an opinion it is not legal advice - you need to see your own solr for that

 

ONE other thing my request to reduce by 25% - I think that you have to apply for an order for that...

 

What happens is that you serve the points on the other side - the case will then go for a hearing in front of a Judge BUT cos you're an LIP the Judge will do most of the work for you. I think that you have to apply within 7 days of being told about the hearing for a reduction on the basis that they were late

Edited April 29, 2009 by I've got no money

[groovycaz]

 

I'm so pleased you replied to my cry for help IGNM

 

I appriciate your opinion, I really would have been lost without it..Gc

[groovycaz]

Ok letter all typed up with points of dispute ready to print and post in the morning........MASSIVE THANK YOU TO I've Got No Money;)

 

after work tomorrow I'l draft another letter to the sols re; set aside as advised because I know for certain that the OP will not want any thing to do with the matter now, she lied in her affidavit and she knows I can prove it...also she now knows that we were telling the truth all along and there will be no £6000 for her and never was...in all the OP costs amount to around £10.000 because she had a bill for over £4000 when the case was first heard 3 years ago, its unbelievable that a sol can persuade the LSC into granting funding for that amount:eek:

 

I read somewhere that they can make a charge on your property, that why we acted as LIP..Gc

[I've got no money]

Ok letter all typed up with points of dispute ready to print and post in the morning........MASSIVE THANK YOU TO I've Got No Money;)

 

after work tomorrow I'l draft another letter to the sols re; set aside as advised because I know for certain that the OP will not want any thing to do with the matter now, she lied in her affidavit and she knows I can prove it...also she now knows that we were telling the truth all along and there will be no £6000 for her and never was...in all the OP costs amount to around £10.000 because she had a bill for over £4000 when the case was first heard 3 years ago, its unbelievable that a sol can persuade the LSC into granting funding for that amount:eek:

 

I read somewhere that they can make a charge on your property, that why we acted as LIP..Gc

 

Oh No - don't tell me that you qualified for Legal Aid

 

The Statutory charge has, in in your case got nothing to do with putting a charge on your property (house) - what it means is that the charge applies to property that you have recovered or preserved AND most importantly you wouldn't be paying the other sides costs.

 

Essentially as you lost here - there would have been no property recovered or preserved so you wouldn't have paid anything and you wouldn't have paid the other sides costs. Had you won then the situation would have been more complex and you may have had to pay some or all of your costs at £66 per hour but out of the property recovered or preserved...

 

The statutory charge often has a much worse effect in matrimonial cases.

[groovycaz]

Oh No - don't tell me that you qualified for Legal Aid

 

The Statutory charge has, in in your case got nothing to do with putting a charge on your property (house) - what it means is that the charge applies to property that you have recovered or preserved AND most importantly you wouldn't be paying the other sides costs.

 

At the start of the dispute we answered all the op sols letter's ourselves, but when we took it to court we paid around £1200, that was for the sol and counsel at the hearing, we were told by the sol that we would qualify for legal aid but would have to repay if we recovered anything so we just kept it as simple as possible while the op had quite large fee's, thats what I cant understand, say we did sell the caravan for say £10,000, she had previously paid half the site fees £800 and her costs were £4,000, if she had to repay her costs out of her half, say £5,000 that would have left her £200 up....then knowing we sold the van for £5,000 she then gets further funding of £5,000 to confirm what we had allready told her..its just madness

I believed to be awarded legal aid, you had to show the LSC that you had a good chance of recovering enough to settle the bill in civil court??

 

If the matter does return to court, I will then speak to a sol

 

I really dont think the OP will want to know anything more about this as she has nothing to gain and no funding, but could the sols object to a set aside without being instructed by the OP??

 

Also with any luck we might have a date for the set aside hearing before the hearing for their assessment of costs...Gc

[I've got no money]

The OP only pays a small proportion of her costs because she has a costs order against you...

 

The issue of recovering enough to settle the bill - is rather complex - but she has an order against you.

 

I don't see how the Solicitors can do anything, in respect of the set aside without her instructions

[I've got no money]

Hi GC - any reply from the other side on the points of dispute

[groovycaz]

Hi IGNM

 

nope, nothing heard as yet..and still waiting for a set-aside hearing date,,Gc

[I've got no money]

GC - if I were you I'd give the Solrs another couple of days and then send them a chasing letter.

[groovycaz]

Thanks IGNM

 

do you know what the norm is here...do they come back to me re: points of dispute to negotiate etc..i really am clueless here

 

also should i also ask whether their client intends to object to the set aside, the courts have cashed my cheque for the court fee..Gc

[I've got no money]

I'm not an expert on points of dispute but I think that they should respond as to whether they accept or reject the points of dispute - but I'm not sure.

 

In terms of the set aside - at this point I wouldn't mention it - the court will serve the OP and you with the notice of hearing. I wouldn't do anything else about it until you get the hearing date. Then post on here when you get it and we'll decide what to do next.

[groovycaz]

Hi IGNM,

 

Got a letter from the court the other day,

 

Further to your application the file has been refered to the district judge who coments

 

I cant understand why the Claimants wants to set aside the order of21st July when it is an order for disclosure by the claimants which the defendant says was complied with. we need to know what the claimants are trying to achieve.

 

Please could you clarify for the Judge exactly what it is you want him to order by 4pm on 29th May

 

I wrote back stating that previous to the order made on 21st july, we had made full disclosure to the defendants and all litigation up to and including 21st July was as previously disclosed however because the sale of our new caravan included a disability discount for our disabled son which had no relevance to the other party they were having none of it and went to great lengths only to recieve confirmation that the figure's we had disclosed 22 months previously were in fact correct.

we claimed that had we been aware of the court date, we would have attended the hearing, we stated that because we were unaware of the hearing we were unable to put our case forward as to why we should not have ben ordered to pay the defendants costs which took us by supprise some nine months later.

 

I called the court and the OP sols had written in stating that we were out of time for a set aside hearing and that we had disclosed as ordered and the claimants had nothing to gain by applying to have the order set aside;)

at least the judge asked before refusing our application

 

Just waiting to hear back now..Gc

[groovycaz]

Forgot to say..nothing back yet about points of dispute

[I've got no money]

I've been thinking about the bill again - they only actually got a costs order for the disclosure application...the amount of work they claimed for was phenomenal...

 

I'll be interested to see how they respond to the points of dispute - my problem was that not knowing the case I was just guessing but £5K for a disclosure application was ridiculous

[groovycaz]

I've been thinking about the bill again - they only actually got a costs order for the disclosure application...the amount of work they claimed for was phenomenal..[quote=

 

what it actually states is the claimants pay the defendants costs of and occasioned by this application, which was on 26th july however they listed costs dating back to 3rd jan 08 when they asked for it to be postponed because they claimed their client was to ill to attend court.

 

do you think thay can claim costs back to then?

 

maybe they are trying it on, after all this is the3rd sol thats taken over this case, the first one was the one who pushed it to 5 grand, it was as if she had some personal vendeta against us and hounded with stacks and stacks of silly letters:eek:

[I've got no money]

I've been thinking about the bill again - they only actually got a costs order for the disclosure application...the amount of work they claimed for was phenomenal..

 

what it actually states is the claimants pay the defendants costs of and occasioned by this application, which was on 26th july however they listed costs dating back to 3rd jan 08 when they asked for it to be postponed because they claimed their client was to ill to attend court.

 

do you think thay can claim costs back to then?

 

I don't think so - now they've produced their bill I think that they're stuck with it

 

maybe they are trying it on, after all this is the3rd sol thats taken over this case, the first one was the one who pushed it to 5 grand, it was as if she had some personal vendeta against us and hounded with stacks and stacks of silly letters:eek:

 

I didn't realise that it was the 3rd Solicitor

[groovycaz]

Hello all and IGNM,

 

well, after much waiting I finaly have a court date for the claimants set aside hearing which takes place on 28th Sept at 3.00pm and 30 mins allowed

 

The only thing I'm a little concerened about is the wording of the order, it simply states

 

TAKE NOTICE THAT THE CLAIMANTS APPLICATION WILL TAKE PLACE ON 28 SEPTEMBER 2009 AT 3:PM

 

IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT THE APPLICATION TO SET JUDGEMENT ASIDE????

[I've got no money]

The notice of hearing doesn't usually say anything other than the date/time of hearing. They should have served a copy of your application on the other side - it has been known for them to forget and just to send them a notice of hearing...

 

It might be an idea to give the court a call to doublecheck that they have sent the N244 out to the other side...