MBNA & Abbey cc, full and final settlement advice.

[kb_ba1]

*Bump*

[kb_ba1]

Sorry... just wondering if anyone else would be able to have a look at what I received from MBNA regarding my two accounts (links on previous page). That is what I received after sending the letter the CAB provided me with. I have since CCA'd them and am waiting to see what else they send or indeed if what they send matches what I have already received.

 

Would also like to know how long does the account stay in dispute after a CCA? Is there a set time or is it until we reach some kind of result or agreement between us?

 

Any help or advice would be fantastic!

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

Sorry, I'm not too hot with checking agreements, I'll try and get someone to have a look, could take a wee while.

 

Regarding the account in dispute, It's like you say, just until you can sort it out with the company.

 

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[rory32]

Is there anything to connect the two pages of the 'agreement'. It seems what MBNA have supplied you with is a copy of the tear off slip (which lacks a prescribed term so on its own would be unenforceable) and a copy of the terms and conditions.

 

All the prescribed terms of the agreement must be within the four corners of the agreement and not simply contained in another document entitled terms and conditions.

[kb_ba1]

Is there anything to connect the two pages of the 'agreement'. It seems what MBNA have supplied you with is a copy of the tear off slip (which lacks a prescribed term so on its own would be unenforceable) and a copy of the terms and conditions.

 

All the prescribed terms of the agreement must be within the four corners of the agreement and not simply contained in another document entitled terms and conditions.

 

 

No... what I've scanned is just how I received it.... Also on the side I signed it says to read to condition 11in the terms and conditions blah, blah which doesn't exist on what they have sent me. So perhaps they're unenforcable... Would this be your thoughts?

 

Should I hold out until I receive my new CCA info from them and see how they compare before I do anything else?

[kb_ba1]

*bump*

Sorry to bump again, but have just been told my partner and I need to move out of our flat as they want to sell it. So stress levels have increased ten fold, so I'm even more desperate to get help now. I have the added worry of us being refused a new place down to my credit issues...

 

Any help much appreciated!

[kb_ba1]

I'm not sure what to do... And feel bad for constantly adding bits to bump my thread but I'm really at my wits end. Am still waiting for my new CCA but they do have until the 27th. However, my mental health is not good and I don't know if it's worth contacting MBNA outlining my situation and seeing if they are willing to cut me some slack. Here's a brief outline of what has been happening:

 

- Trouble with bailiff's at the start of the year, though thankfully now sorted as they were taking me for a ride.

- Debt situation and as a result the near break down of my relationship with my partner (the classic thinking you can sort it when you obviously can't).

- Been given two months to leave our flat as they are selling it, so now worried about credit checks for a new place and not being able to get somewhere.

- And a of friend mine died yesterday in her sleep (although that does kind of put everything in perspective).

 

Needless to say I feel rather on the edge. I have had mental health problems for over 15 years. Anorexia, self harming, depression etc. I've had my medication increased due to the stress of the bailiff/debt situation but I've lost well over a stone (am now quite underweight), I can't eat or sleep and feel virtually suicidal... I just don't know where to turn. I know I should wait until I have my CCA responded to but really feel I can't do this for much longer. A friend has suggested he could lend me 8k and as long as we set up a contract I'm tempted. But I'm sure MBNA wouldn't take this as a full and final settlement for £16k of debt, especially when I read what others have posted. I'm sorry to sound so wet, particularly as others are in a much worse position than I am. I just want suggestions or support if possible.

 

I do want to say a big thank you for the help I have received so far though, it has been much appreciated.

[landy_alert]

Hi KB,

 

Have just read your latest post and although I can't offer any proper help, I just wanted to offer you my support and to say that I am here for you, in the same way you offered to be there for me:)

 

Please don't let all this get on top of you - as you know I was feeling pretty crap the other day and your kind words made me feel so much better. I know it's small comfort when you are feeling really down to know that people whom you've never met are rooting for you and are either going through or have been through similar situations, so can sympathise, but there are a lot of great people here who are determined not to let these b*****s grind you down and who are prepared to offer advice and support if they can!

 

I'm so sorry to hear about your friend. As you say, though, it does put all this in perspective and makes you realise however bad things get, there is always someone worse off.

 

I'm sure someone more experienced and knowledgeable will come along and offer useful advice regarding dealing with the situation of your flat;)

 

As for MBNA accepting your reduced offer, I'm sure I've read of cases on here where they (or other institutions) have accepted much lower offers, but I'm certain the more learned Caggers will advise you to hang fire at this juncture and not be too quick to offer them anything.

 

Remember we are all in the same boat and will be here for you if we can do anything to help - even if it is only to offer a kind word or two:)

 

Keep your chin up,

 

Landy x

[42man]

Just one thing here it says on the MBNA....before your sign this agreement etc etc read condition (is it 11) ? I cant see that on the reverse of the t's and c's....the credit limit is on the signature page, but the rest of the prescribed terms do not seem to be on the signature page !! (are you sure the 'back' IS the back and not in another document ?

 

A valid credit agreement must contain certain terms within the signature document (s.60(1)(2) CCA 1974). These core terms are the credit limit, repayment terms and the rate of interest (SI 1983/1553 (6 Signing of agreement) which states that the prescribed terms must be within the signature document. (Column 2 schedule 6). s.61(1)(a) states the agreement must contain all the prescribed terms and be signed by both the debtor and on behalf of the creditor.

 

Further, s.127(3) CCA 1974 makes the account unenforceable if it is not in the proper form and content or improperly executed.

 

In Wilson and another v Hurstanger Ltd (2007) it was stated “In my judgment the objective of Schedule 6 is to ensure that, as an inflexible condition of enforceability, certain basic minimum terms are included which the parties … and/or the court can identify within the four corners of the agreement. Those minimum provisions combined with the requirement under s.61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127(3), ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself: they cannot be orally agreed; they cannot be found in another document; they cannot be implied; and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated. As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them. On the other hand, they are basic provisions, and the only question for the court is whether they are, on a true construction, included in the agreement”.

 

Of course it could depend on how a judge would see it too...

[kb_ba1]

Firstly, thank you Landy for the lovely post. Was most thoughtful of you and much appreciated. I'm sure there is light at the end of the tunnel for us all. Failing that maybe we should all get together and run away to start a commune where nobody can find us... Just a thought! Guess it's just a case of holding out for now... But thank you once again.

 

Also 42man. Thank you for your post also. I did notice the condition 11 thing and was wondering (well praying) that that would make the debt unenforacable. I've no idea if the back is indeed the back but I have my doubts... It's a shame there isn't damage or a tear to the print out so we could see if it tallys up. But I agree with what you say. Also no creditor sig... Thank you for typing up the quote from the court case. Was interesting to read. But fingers crossed I'll not have to go to court. Think I just need to hold on for the new CCA and see what I get there.

 

Many thanks to you both and at least the sun is shining!

[rory32]

You are unlikely to receive anything new from MBNA as this is all they keep. The agreement as it stands is unenforceable.

 

Hope you get your new flat sorted out soon

 

You can certainly offer a full and final if you so wish but get advice from the forum first on putting the letter together.

 

If MBNA were to pass your account on it would not be to bailiffs, it would simply be to debt collectors who are bottom feeding **** with no legal powers at all and certainly nothing that you should be getting stressed about.

[kb_ba1]

Thanks rory32. It's good to know the agreement is unenforceable, that's a big relief. Will mock up a letter to send them once I have received the new (and probably identical) cca. I'll post it up here for you guys to read through and advise.

 

Got some flat viewings this afternoon so fingers crossed with that one at least!

[landy_alert]

Hi KB,

 

Glad to hear your agreement is unenforceable - that should make you feel a bit better!

 

Hope the flat viewings go well this afternoon:-)

 

All the best,

 

Landy x

[kb_ba1]

Thanks Landy, it's certainly taken a bit off pressure off that's for sure. Just need to muster the energy to carry on the fight!

[kb_ba1]

Right... No news from MBNA regarding my CCA request. They had until last Thursday. What should my next course of action be? Write to them putting the accounts in dispute due to their failure to comply?

 

They are also expecting me to find £600 to pay them this month for the two accounts and I only have £200 left after bills and rent. Plus my road tax and car insurance is due this month too. So am getting in a bit of a panic again!

 

Thanks in advance

Edited March 30, 2009 by kb_ba1

[kb_ba1]

*bump*

 

Can anyone advise me on my next step? Still no CCA (no surprise there).

 

Thanks!

Edited March 31, 2009 by kb_ba1

[silver1977]

Hi,

 

Yes if they have failed to comply then you can send them the 'In Dispute' letter. As far as I am aware, the account then remains in dispute until they can produce an enforcable agreement. Until then (which looks unlikely) you can withold payments and they cannot take further action against you.

 

Get the letter sent off recorded delivery and then try not to give them too much thought!

[kb_ba1]

Great stuff! That helps me to relax... Even though I've had stuff sent before when I went to the CAB they've still failed as far as I can see. Especially as they seen unenforcable anyway.

 

I've had a look for an in dispute template letter but can't see one... Does anyone know the link?

 

Thanks

[maroondevo52]

Hi,

 

There's one here.........

 

Edit and send recorded....

 

 

ACCOUNT IN DISPUTE

 

Dear Sirs,

 

Account no xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

Thank you for your recent letter sent to me, the contents of which are noted. I appreciate your quick response to my original letter. However, the reply received by me does not fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. This fee was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The absence of any relevant paperwork confirms that I am not liable for any debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until xx/xx.2008 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 + 2 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation. If you continue to harrass me without complying with my original request your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to offer credit in the future.

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

Also please note I am of the view that your continued harassment of me by telephone puts you in breach of CPUTR 2008 and also in breach of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997.

 

If you continue to harass me by telephone, you will also be in breach of the Communications Act (2003) s.127 and I will report you to OFCOM, Trading Standards and The Office of Fair Trading, meaning that you will be liable to a substantial fine.

 

Be advised that any further telephone calls from your company will be recorded.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Regards.

 

Scott.

[kb_ba1]

Thanks so much Scott. Will adapt that and post the letter up before seding to make sure it's ok. Also received an interesting letter from them today which I received after complaining about their phone calls so will scan that after work and post it up for you guys to read over. Not really sure what to make of it. Makes me a little concerned I may end up shooting myself in the foot. Anyway, will get it up just after 5.30 along with my adapted dispute letter.

 

Thanks again!

[kb_ba1]

Ok... Here's my tweaked letter. Will post up what I've received today in a little while.

 

ACCOUNTS IN DISPUTE

 

Account No:- Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (Abbey)

& Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx (MBNA)

 

Re: my request under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

 

I am writing to you with regard to my recent CCA request, which was sent recorded on the 11th March 2009 and signed for (proof enclosed) on the 12th March 2009. As you know the timeline for such a request is 12+2 days, so far I have received nothing. Therefore you have failed to fulfil your requirements under the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

The Act demands that I be supplied with a true copy of any properly executed credit agreement that exists in relation to the above account. I may ask for this on demand providing that a fee of £1.00 is paid. A fee of £2.00 in postal orders to cover both accounts was sent with my original letter.

 

My request remains outstanding. The absence of any relevant paperwork confirms that I am not liable for any debt to you, nor gives me any chance to evaluate whether any original agreement was ‘properly executed’.

 

I still require you to send me a true copy of the original credit agreement that you allege exists. As you will know, under the Consumer Credit Act 1974, a judge is not permitted to make any enforcement order unless the creditor can provide a true signed copy of the original credit agreement. This means that unless you can produce such an agreement, this alleged debt is not enforceable in law.

 

You had until 26th March 2009 to provide me with the true copy I requested. You are now in default of my request. Any account I hold with you is now in legal dispute. Whilst the account remains in dispute, you are not permitted to ask for any payment, nor am I obliged to offer any payment to you. Furthermore, whilst the dispute remains, you are not entitled to charge any interest on the account, nor make any further charges to the account. Additionally, you are not entitled to register any information on this account with any credit reference agency.

 

To register information with a credit reference agency, you must have written consent from the customer to collate and share such information. This consent is given in the form of a signed credit agreement, so until you produce such an agreement, you may not do this.

 

The requirement for consent to share data is a clear requirement of the Data Protection Act 1998. Any such attempts to share my data without my consent will be met with a complaint to the Information Commissioners Office

 

The time limits, which are laid down in the Consumer Credit (Prescribed Periods for Giving Information) Regulations 1983 are clear. You must supply an executed credit agreement within 12 + 2 working days of a proper CCA request. If you fail to comply with a legitimate request the account enters a default situation. If you continue to harass me without complying with my original request your conduct will be reported to the Office of Fair Trading, the Financial Ombudsman and Trading Standards. Any investigation undertaken by them may affect your ability to offer credit in the future.

 

To sum up, I will not be making any further payments to you until you provide me with the document I have requested. Whilst you remain in default of my request, you are not permitted to take any action against this account. This includes adding further charges and passing any information to the credit reference agencies.

 

Should you not have any signed credit agreement in relation to this alleged debt, please confirm this in writing to me.

 

Please be advised that any further communication should be by writing only.

 

I look forward to your reply.

 

Yours faithfully

 

[kb_ba1]

Here's the reply I received after my harassment by telephone letter. I think it's a good one, but what does annoy me is the part asking for my incomings/outgoings etc. I've sent an expenditure form twice! If it wasn't complete why didn't they let me know?! I also don't know what they mean by a recent expenditure on one account. 3months ago was the last time I used it. I don't know... I think I'm being sent insane by all this! Anyway here's the reply:

 

http://s691.photobucket.com/albums/vv274/kb_ba1/?action=view&current=mbna_reply_01.jpg

 

http://s691.photobucket.com/albums/vv274/kb_ba1/?action=view&current=mbna_reply_02.jpg

 

http://s691.photobucket.com/albums/vv274/kb_ba1/?action=view&current=mbna_reply_03.jpg

Edited March 31, 2009 by kb_ba1
Links failed

[tonypppr]

Hi there

If you go to cccs on the internet the charity organised consolidation company your interest is frozen and you pay fixed payments, i am doing it myself so i know its true.

Tony

[MayRich]

Here's the reply I received after my harassment by telephone letter. I think it's a good one, but what does annoy me is the part asking for my incomings/outgoings etc.

 

Hi KB,

 

My experience is that they will use any trick at their disposal to refuse to accept the income/expenditure form you send and will keep niggling at details or ignoring it. All they want is to get you to pay them some money now, they don't really care about the law or your circumstances unfortunately.

 

Overall, good luck with them. I'd say two things - first, don't expect this to be a quick battle - things can go on for months and months unfortunately, they are basically a bunch of weasels who will duck and dive and try to get round the law. Secondly, think very hard before borrowing money from a friend to settle this (even if it seems a short term solution). Basically, if you end up messing MBNA around, then they deserve it as they are (allegedly...) loan sharks. But if you end up messing a friend around even to a small degree then that is a much more serious thing. I was offered money from family and friends to settle some debts recently and came to the realisation that I would just be exchanging one set of problems for another.

 

Be patient - in the end you may well find you can either pay this off over a long period to a DCA or come to F&F for a reasonable figure some distance down the road. I really hope it works out for you, but don't expect MBNA to behave like reasonable human beings and you won't be disappointed.

 

And if that sounds unsympathetic, I don't mean it to be. I wish you all the best.

[the_shadow]

They are asking for information that they know they are not entitled too, trouble is if you dont give it I'm sure they'll use it as an excuse to not offer the reduced repayments.

 

I'm in the same boat myself but I'm not planning on giving them anything other than the minimum and I've set the pro-rata payments as per my I&E which I have given them a copy of.. if they want more they can take me to court.

 

PmW