george mcm vs Clydesdale bank

[caro]

Sorry George, there's me firing questions at you, and you must be drained. I think a tot, or maybe a few tots of your favourite tipple are probably best for now. You've been swamped down in this recently, so take a couple of days break to recuperate, get back into your life, spend time with the family, and when you're ready we can see what can be done. I can't begin to imagine how you must feel.

[Bigmac versus]

No prob Caro, as i said i had a bad feeling about this one for a while before hand but decided to go for it, wont change me when the award costs i will tell them i have no money as the CB have it all off me!

 

Really it dosent bother me i will just get on with it, the only thing that gets me is they have taken money UNLAWFULLY and they now use the law to protect them from paying it back, what kind of judicial system is that, pure sheeet if you ask me. This helps others then it will be a good outcome in some way.

 

CB will hear from me shortly and so will their customers who visit their premises during the following week, i may not get my money back but i will make sure other customers will be told about this site.

 

Interesting thinking there. Would i be done for Breach of peace handing out leaflets against bank charges just a few yards from my branches doors?

[cascade]

No you wouldn't be done for breach of peace you like many millions in this country have the right to peaceful protest! N.b. I said peaceful. lol!

[cascade]

Any way you have a valid point. It's the wording in the leaflets you have to be careful with at this stage, but sounds like a good idea as another means to get the point accross to the general public. May look into this myself. Thanks for that.

[achuaran]

Maybe we should all bombard that multi million pound building, aka the Scottish Parliament, in Edinburgh with letters pointing out the unfairmess between our small claims criteria of £750 and £1500 compared to the English £5000 limit. How many people in Scotland are being prevented from claiming what's rightfully theirs because of the fear of taking out an 'ordinary cause' and having to pay mega bucks if they are unsuccessful?We're talking about ordinary people here - not Tommy Sheridan taking on the News of the World for big money. I'm afraid the bullies are running the show at the moment.

[allybee13]

Sorry to hear about this George.

 

Good luck with handing out leaflets etc - many more people need to discover this site and claim back their money!

 

Ally

x

[cascade]

You have a point Achuaran, anyone on this site have a problem with flyer demos?. I think it's another means of getting everyones right across.

[achuaran]

As the elections are looming perhaps this would be good time to ask our Scottish Parly 'pals' if they intend to do anything about this anomaly. I think you can send an email to them and it is forwarded to every MSP. I'll try and check this out later on and let you know. As for flyers - could these be left in our workplaces, local shops etc? The more people who know about this site the better.

[achuaran]

OK - not possible to do this with one email - you have to contact each one individually - no surprise there then. I've included the link to the MSP's contact details page - maybe one of our IT experts can tell us how to overcome this.

 

The Scottish Parliament - Current Members

[caro]

No trying to dampen spirits, but there can be a problem with handing out flyers as people will often take one and discard it, causing a litter problem and waste of money spent on producing them.

 

Some people provide links to the site in the sigs on their emails.

 

Might be worth posting ideas of a campaign in Scotland in the CAG Campaign forum.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/campaign/

[achuaran]

Hi Caro

 

Very true. Some more thought needed on this one I think

[Bigmac versus]

Some interesting points raised and i for one would agree that the small claims in Scotland is far too low and should be raised in line with the likes of the English system.

[achuaran]

Obviously a dreich Sunday afternoon here as I've spent the last wee while emailing a number of MSP's - including the First Minister - to ask for their comments on the subject. Will let you all know if I get ANY replies.

[donaldtramp]

Sorry to read about this...

the judge said this action to avoid OA was to avoid any costs and is indeed causing the courts to be backlogged.

 

It's not US that are causing the courts to be backlogged it is THE BANKS FAULT for the backlogging of the courts. Why isn't there any action against them for this continual dragging out of claims. Why is nothing being done to force them into completing a court case? We are just folk on the street and the banks are the ones abusing their power to basically defraud us and continue to take OUR cash.

 

This drives me nuts and I really feel for you. I've got to compliment you on your perseverance and thank you for making us all aware of this.(I'm also a claim splitter)

 

Thanks

DT

[stevokenevo]

Am i right in thinking that CB settled your first claim out of court??

I don't understand how they're defence can hold any water, i can see the point if they had lost a court action and you had a judgement in your favour, why they would be unhappy about you raising a second action. But surely if they settled out of court the first claim should have no bearing on a second.

Unless im missing something, them settling out of court should be the key.. .. .. ..

[Bigmac versus]

Stevokenevo i have thought of that a couple of times and wonder if that would work, the Judge was told that a previous claim had been made that was settled, the law is clear in that one caim can only be made to cover all the loss at THAT time, i did raise two whichever way you look at it, interesting thought though, donald trump i did say at the end of the hearing to both the judge and the solicitor that it was the view of all the claimants that they are being pushed into a CORNER where they have to go via the courts and it is them who are abusing the courts not us, corporate ignorance of the OFT's findings.

[Bigmac versus]

Auchaursan i like that idea, let me know what reply you get if any.

[caro]

I think its the fact that Clydesdale have put that cashing the cheque will be considered full and final settlement is the deciding factor here. They can prove to the court they said that, and so the judge has taken that view as well. Considering that the courts in Scotland seem to be leaning that way too regrettably the fact the case did not get to court is immaterial. That's my interpretation anyway.

 

Of course I'm not saying I agree with the view. Just explaining as I see it.

[stevokenevo]

Probably clutching at straws here, but when they send the letter offering full and final settlement, are these letters not marked 'without prejudice' or whatever so that the letter cant be produced in court?

[donaldtramp]

I thought I had seen somewhere a draft letter, that when posted out a cheque like this, you sent back to the bank stating that you thanked them for the payment stating that in accepting this cheque you do not waive further action against the bank etc etc.

 

Dunno where, but I remember distinctly seeing something like this. (been reading too many bank charge websites!) There must be a way round this. If they can say that in accepting the cheque is full and final settlement. There must be a way for us to draft a legal letter saying that in accepting this cheque it doesn't constitute full and final settlement etc etc.

 

Any legal geniuses out there??

 

DT

[Piggy bank]

I'm very annoyed about this myself, I have to say, but the fact whether you cashed a cheque or not, or whether you specified that you did not waive the right to take further action, or whether the case was settled out of court is immaterial under these circumstances: currently, second claims (against Clydesdale at least) are thrown out of court as it is deemed 'incompetent' based on the legal argument/jurisprudence presented by the Clydesdale.

 

The crux of this argument is that scots law prevents you from filing a second claim based on the same cause of damages that you have suffered as a consequence of the bank's actions and of which you were already aware at the time of your first claim.

 

Regardless of whether the first case was settled out of court, this would prevent you from being allowed to successfully file a second claim, based on the sheriff rulings so far. It would appear that certain sheriff clerk's ofices (certainly the one in edinburgh) are now being instructed to discourage people from splitting up claims.

[caro]

You are right about the letter Donald, and it was fine in hundreds, if not thousands of cases with other banks. Clydesdale, however are a different ball game altogether and we have advised people for some time in the Yorkshire Bank and Clydesdale Bank forum to return partial payment cheque as if you cash the cheque, you are accepting the conditions by your action(as I understand it). You shouldn’t accept it without the banks agreement to a change in conditions, which lets face it, CB aren’t likely to agree. In fact the letters in the bank templates library have now been updated. I think on the whole this has been more of an issue in England, with Clydesdales sister bank, Yorkshire Bank.

 

It’s only now that people have had some success with their first small claim in Scotland, and are now going for round 2, that the problem has arisen. I don’t know if other banks have paid second or subsequent small claims in Scotland or not, but some of the courts are clearly not happy about severed claims it seems.

 

A lot of Scots file their claims in England using English branches or to avoid multiple claims, but as Clydesdale mostly operates in Scotland, and the Head Office is in Scotland, that is less of an option, so the miserable Scottish limits for small claims apply.

[stevokenevo]

don’t know if other banks have paid second or subsequent small claims in Scotland or not,

 

I personally had two succesful claims against LTSB using exact same POCs etc, the only difference on the two claims was the amounts.

I know of several other people who have made 3 or more claims succesfuly against Halifax and Bank of Scotland. Perhaps the way forward for Clydesdale customers is to use the summary cause action which has a limit of £1500 + interest and many of the benefits of the small claims action.

[Piggy bank]

Stevo. My first claim was a small claim, which went to preliminary hearing and then was settled out of court. I then filed my second claim, which was a summary cause claim, which was kicked out of court by the sheriff on the basis of my previous claim.

 

It would seem that currently only the Clydesdale have been using the relevant jurisprudence to make severed claims impossible....

[caro]

In my opinion and experience Clydesdale use the most aggressive tactics of any of the banks.